A while back someone posted the results of test on various brands of penetrating oil. The test also included a home made batch made up of transmission fluid and something else I can't remember. Maybe acetone. It was rated very high. I've tried the search function on the boards I frequent and can't find it. Anybody remember the recipe? I'm about to run out of Kroil. Thanks
Reply:At one shop I worked at, we would test the welds on a certain job using diesel fuel. You could find your leaks in the welds via the wet spots on the inside.
Reply:Yup, that be it, acetone and tranny fluid. I believe it was posted on Jalopy Journal, but don't have the link. It might be hamb.com? Originally Posted by hvwA while back someone posted the results of test on various brands of penetrating oil. The test also included a home made batch made up of transmission fluid and something else I can't remember. Maybe acetone. It was rated very high. I've tried the search function on the boards I frequent and can't find it. Anybody remember the recipe? I'm about to run out of Kroil. Thanks
Reply:HVW -- when you find it please sharefred-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:If you can find any, you might try Oil of Wintergreen = Methyl Salicylate. It used to be sold in the drug store near here for use as a rubefacient, but is harder to find now. It is what gives the odor to Marvel Mystery oil, and was used by Navy technicians working on P-3's at the nearby base to free stuck fasteners; they and I used it straight out of the bottle but you could also add it to the transmission fluid for general use.In tests by my Navy friends, it worked better than any commercial P.O.including Kroil.
Reply:Would this be what you are talking about? or is this only a substance with wintergreen in it? A quart of this is $17 and other places were 2-3 times that price.http://www.tireprep.com/RealWintergreen.htmAin't nuthin cheap no more!!
Reply:I can't tell by reading that ad exactly what it is; it says it contains petroleum distillates, which I wouldn't consider a good legal description of Methyl Salicylate. I've never heard of it being used as a rubber softener either, although I might expect it would do that. I would (or I even might) contact the company and either request the MSDS or ask them directly if it is 100% Methyl salicylate. If it is, that is a very good price; it only takes a drop or two on a bolt, plus a bit ow waiting for it to work inside, to get the results needed so a quart should last a lifetime for all but the professional restorer who works all day long on old rusty machinery.
Reply:I couldn't read anything on the can either...Like you say.. only option...Contact them about it's content.I need a concoction to put inside some small engine cylinders to set up for a while and hopefully unlock them...They just sat unattended in barns and locked up no mechanical reason...just rust/humidity. I now have 4-5 of these jewels!!I'm not familiar with Wintergreen or it's properties for this type of usage...Any thoughts about that?
Reply:It looks like the original article was in the April/May 2007 issue of Machinists Workshop. Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparisontest.*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants withthe control being the torque required to remove the nut from a"scientifically rusted" environment.*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*None ..................... 516 poundsWD-40 .................. 238 poundsPB Blaster ............. 214 poundsLiquid Wrench ..... 127 poundsKano Kroil ............ 106 poundsATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmissionfluid and acetone.**Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this oneparticular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all nowuse it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is aboutas good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
Reply
osted by Mudbugone: I need a concoction to put inside some small engine cylinders to set up for a while and hopefully unlock them...They just sat unattended in barns and locked up no mechanical reason...just rust/humidity. I now have 4-5 of these jewels!!I'm not familiar with Wintergreen or it's properties for this type of usage...Any thoughts about that?
Reply:That's it Jack. Thanks. I don't know how I would have seen it if it wasn't posted on this board or an old tractor forum I look at now and then. But I couldn't find it. A good many people have used transmission fluid in place of Marvel Mstery oil to free up old pistons in tractor engines. The claim is that it is just as effective. I expect cutting it with acetone increases it's ability to soak around a frozen bolt and the acetone probably gets rid of grease, etc. I'm going to try a batch before long.
Reply:Brake fluid also seems to have a powerful cut.Good Luck
Reply:Search for some stuff called mouse milk. CAn prolly get it at an aircraft supply place. We use it to restore antique tractors put them in the cylinder wait a day or 2 and it should free right up. This stuff is amazing. http://www.mousemilk.com/Millermatic DVIMillermatic 251Older buzz box Cheap 120 welder
Reply:Interesting stuff..... They don't give much info on it at that link.... But if it can free up just one of these toys it would be worth the cost. It ranges from $5.25- $9.00 or more for an 8oz. bottle so shop carefully.One of the links that popped up was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_oil which after identifing numerous brands says that a mixture of AT fluid and Acetone mixed 50/50% works better...On a side note...under mouse milk online...who would have thought about milking mice and making cheese from the milk..learn something new every day.Last edited by mudbugone; 06-08-2009 at 10:04 PM.
Reply:Is this what you were looking for?'Ed's Red' Bore Cleaner''Ed's Red'' Bore Cleaner... Home-Mix Really WorksBy C.E. ''Ed'' HarrisUpdated & Revised 9-29-95.Four years ago I mixed my first "Ed's Red" or "ER" bore cleaner andhundreds of users have told me that they think this home-mixed cleaneris more effective than commercial products. I urge you to mix some andgive it a fair trial, compared to whatever you have been using.Competitive shooters, gun clubs and police departments who use a gallonor more of rifle bore cleaner annually can save by mixing their own, andthey will give up nothing in safety or effectiveness.This cleaner has an action very similar to standard military issue riflebore cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. Users report it is more effective thanHoppe's for removing plastic fouling in shotgun bores, or caked carbonfouling in semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or in removing leading inrevolvers. It is not as effective as Sweets 7.62, Hoppe's Bench RestNine or Shooter's Choice for fast removal of heavy copper fouling inrifle bores. However, because "ER" is more effective in removing cakedcarbon and abrasive primer residues than other cleaners, metal foulingis greatly reduced when "ER" is used on a continuing basis.I originally came up with this mix because I am an active high powerrifle competitive shooter and hand loading experimenter who uses a lotof rifle bore cleaner. I was not satisfied with the performance and highprice of commercial products. I knew there was no technical reason whyan effective firearm bore cleaner couldn't be mixed using commonhardware store ingredients. The result is inexpensive, effective,provides good corrosion protection and adequate residual lubrication sothat routine "oiling" after cleaning is rarely necessary, except forlong-term storage of over 1 year, or harsh service environments, such assalt water exposure.This formula is based on proven principles and incorporates two polarand two nonpolar solvents. It is adapted from the one in Hatcher'sNotebook for "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18," but substitutingequivalent modern materials. I had the help of an organic chemist indoing this and we knew there would be no "surprises." The originalHatcher formula called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, PrattsAstral Oil and sperm oil, and optionally 200 grams of anhydrous lanolinadded per liter. Some discussion of the ingredients is helpful tounderstand the properties of the cleaner and how it works.Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene.I recommend "K1" kerosene of the type normally sold for use in indoorspace heaters. Some users have reported successful substitution ofcivilian aviation grade kerosene such as Turbo-A. I am reluctant to"recommend" substitution of aviation grade kerosene, because the effectsupon firearm components of the additives required in aviation fuels areunknown. Some "jet- fuels" are gasoline/kerosene blends and absolutelyshould not be used, because of their increased flammability.An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron (II, IIe orIII) automatic transmission fluid. Prior to about 1950 that most ATF'swere sperm oil based, but during WWII a synthetic was developed for usein precision instruments. With the great demand for automatictransmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical toproduce ATF in the quantity demanded, so the synthetic material becamethe basis for the Dexron fluids we know today. The additives in ATFswhich include organometallic antioxidants and surfactants, make ithighly suitable for inclusion in an all-purposecleaner-lubricant-preservative.Hatcher's original Frankford Arsenal No. 18 formula used gum spirits ofturpentine. Because turpentine is expensive today, and is also an"aromatic" solvent, which is highly flammable, I chose not to use it.Safer and cheaper is "aliphatic mineral spirits," a petroleum based"safety solvent" used for thinning oil based paints and also widely usedas an automotive parts cleaner. It is commonly sold under the names"odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".Acetone is included in "ER" to provide an aggressive, fast-actingsolvent for caked powder residues. Because acetone is an aromatic,organic solvent, it is recommended that users leave it out if thecleaner will be used in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation.The acetone in ER will evaporate, liberating volatile organic compounds(VOCs) into the atmosphere unless containers are kept tightly closedwhen not in use. The cleaner is still effective without the acetone, butit is not as "fast-acting."There isn't anything in Ed's Red which chemically dissolves copperfouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job removing on carbon andprimer residue than anything else which is safe and commonly available.Numerous users have told me, that exclusive use of "ER" reduces copperdeposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling which isleft by other cleaners, which reduces the abrasion and adhesion ofjacket metal to the bore surface, leaving a cleaner surface conditionwhich reduces subsequent fouling. Experience seems to indicate that "ER"will actually remove metal fouling it if you let it "soak," so thesurfactants will do the job, though you have to be patient.Addition of the lanolin to ER bore cleaner mix is entirely optional. Thecleaner works quite well and gives adequate corrosion protection andlubrication for most users without it. Incorporating the lanolin makesthe cleaner easier on the hands, and increases lubricity and filmstrength, and improves corrosion protection if weapons will be routinelyexposed to salt air, water spray, industrial or urban corrosiveatmospheres, or if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant forlong term storage of over 1 year.If you use other protective films for adverse use or long term storageyou can leave the lanolin out and save about $8 per gallon. At currentretail prices you can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without thelanolin for about $10 per gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I amconfident it will work as well for you as it does for me and hundreds ofusers who got the "recipe" on the Fidonet Firearms Echo. CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K11 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, orequivalent, (aka "Varsol")1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK tosubstitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store) MIXING INSTRUCTIONS FOR "ER" BORE CLEANER:Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPAapproved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT useHDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will eventually evaporate.The acetone in ER will also attack HDPE, causing the container tocollapse, making a heck of a mess!Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the othercomponents, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate thelanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, takingprecautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a largercontainer, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, andstirring until it is all dissolved.I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for optional use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil.This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remainingmix.LABEL AND NECESSARY SAFETY WARNINGS:RIFLE BORE CLEANER CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTUREHARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN1. Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physicianimmediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly withwater and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist.It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a mannerinconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated andprolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain andnervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forcedair ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C orequivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING "Ed's Red (ER)" Bore Cleaner:1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning ismost effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touchfrom firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impaleon jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patchshould be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull itback into the bore.2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from thebreech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokesand gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waitingapproximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve itsaction.3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leadedrevolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may beused to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth,target-grade barrels in routine use.4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush outloosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jagwithout pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing,leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under averageconditions.5. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect thefirearm from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage Irecommend use of Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. "ER" willreadily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun.While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone itcontains is harmful to most wood finishes).7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and drythe chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag.First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red ifthe bore is cleaned as described.8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is usedexclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary afteruse of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are notwiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powderfouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavyfouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flushwith Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residualmoisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APARTwhenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get allthe corrosive residue out.This "Recipe" is placed in the public domain, and may be freelydistributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all currentrevisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and thatproper attribution is given to the author.In Home Mix We Trust, Regards, EdPowcon 200SMPowcon 300STVictor Journeyman O/A & CartApex Disc SanderCraftsman Belt/Disc Combo SanderWayne Air Compressor3 Craftsman Drill PressesEmerson Horizontal BandsawPorter-Cable Porta-Band7 Angle Grinders4 Bench Grinders
Reply:Kerosene and ATF is an old combination.Like all penetration liquids I have used over the years it is snake oil. Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Taken from Red's recipe:"Because acetone is an aromatic, organic solvent,"
