Hobart Handler 125 (Help Understanding Wiring Diagram)
Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:40 GMT
Page 25http://ec1.images-amazon.com/media/i...L000004834.pdfHelp an idiot out. I recently took apart my 125 to get enough room to get a bigger fan in and replace the wire drive motor and didn't document well enough how I took everything apart. I have some basic 12V electrical knowledge and some basic 110V house knowledge but something isn't right here.What is happening - no wire drive motor. When I hooked up the fan, I powered up the welder to ensure it worked before making other changes. It did. So I replaced the motor. Now, no wire speed motor when trigger depressed. Ohmed out the trigger wires, good continuity. Even direct jumpered the trigger ports on PCB, nothing. I currently do not have any leads on the welder (replacing them too) but since previously I could feed wire without completing the lead circuit (arcing the welder) I do not think this should have any effect.Changes from factory:craftsman wire drive motor - mine died and it was the closest replacement I could source used for less than the value of my welder. when I power it up separately with a +12V jump box it does work in both forward and reverse. I had to put new leads on my existing wiring to make it long enough and the right connectors. I ohmed both leads out and verified continuity back to the PCB and made sure they were plugged into the right ports on PCB.fan - radioshack pic below. this is a 115v fan on a 24vac circuit according to wiring diagram. I tried to take a pic of how it's wired, basically uses 2 of the 4 wires from the PCB. I think this is where my problem lies - the fan spins pretty slowly.second picture is the old plug that plugged into the old 24vac fan. the two cut wires are now going to the 115v fan, the other 2 just chill there. jumpering the two "just chilling" together did not solve the issue.Steps I've taken/outruledmotor does work seperately with +12v power sourcepower is coming into welder to main circuit breakerpower is coming out of circuit breaker and going to on/off switchpower is coming out of on/off and getting to PCBground is good (using ground for above tests)power is getting to fan motortrigger wires ohm goodwire motor wires ohm goodpicture of the rest of the wiring. most of it is really well labeled from hobart and i checked the diagram step by step and all seem to be in the right place. only ones I am unclear on from the diagram are the large leads (yellow going to negative post, two whites going to large board leading to positive post, 4 browns coming off big inductors going to nut/bolt assembly slid the covering down for clarity. one small lead goes to the nut/bolt and one to the plate, both are number labeled and appear to be in correct location according to wiring diagram)Thanks to anyone that can help. Note to self, take better pictures on disassembly next time.Last edited by 95PGTTech; 05-10-2013 at 01:37 PM.
Reply:Note on the schematic that the fan motor gets 120VAC input from 2 wires on the board. It also contains a 24VAC auxiliary transformer output winding to power the circuit board - the other two wires. It's common on these small welders."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Edited the original post, typed wrong. If I understand the wiring diagram now from your explination, the fan motor derives power and ground from rc11-1 and rc11-2. I'd be willing to bet that's how I have it now from the 4 wire plug (rc11) since it works. And the other 2 go to a 24vac transformer (rc11-3 and rc11-4). I'd imagine that was all part of the fan assembly I tossed.So I need to get a 24vac transformer and wire it to rc11-3 and rc11-4. So right now I have no power to the PCB? This makes sense. I assume since it was one 4 wire plug it was all one unit (and being boxed in the diagram).
Reply:Yeah, I noticed you originally typed 220 instead of 24. Thought it was me for a minute. So, yeah, you need 24 VAC aux power. Can't tell you how much or how close it has to be to 24.Edit: In technical terms, RC11-1 and -2 are the gazinters to the fan and -3 and -4 are the gazouters to the board.Last edited by Oldendum; 05-10-2013 at 03:28 PM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Ok picked up transformer. 25.2v ac 450mA. 120vac input center tapped secondaryPrimary has 2 yellows. Secondary has 3 black.So my fan should be 11-1 and 11-2. A little confused on the wiring for transformer. Only use primary coil? Input/output matter? I'd guess not both same color neither labeled disappear behind cover on same side right next to each otherAlso how hot will this thing get? I am guessing pretty hot since it was mounted to the fan in the stock configuration and air was pulled directly across it
Reply:Or since fan is 110v maybe it's 11-1 to fan, fan to yellow transformer, other yellow to 11-2. Wired in series gives fan 110v then let's transformer step down the rest? Wire secondary to 11-3 and 11-4?Sorry my electrical knowledge is limited to 12v auto systems. Just now starting to learn 110v household let alone this electronics wizardry
Reply:made this screencap for an electronics forum where they are also helping my stupidThought - everything online is screaming the blacks/large are input to transformer and yellows are output. So even if I figured out which is which and wired 1-2 to black and 3-4 to yellow, what powers the fan if I use all 4 wires up? Was it connected internally before? Go back to my "in series" design or just take power off of the welder's 110v input before it reaches the PCB?Thanks guys, I can only imagine how frustrating my "just enough to hurt me" knowledge is.
Reply:The original fan in the unit IS the transformer! The 115v leads power the fan, which is also the transformer primary, and the 24v leads are the transformer output. For a separate 115v fan and transformer, tie each black to 1 fan lead and 1 transformer lead, and 1 24v lead to each transformer output lead.- Tim
Reply:Originally Posted by tadawsonThe original fan in the unit IS the transformer! The 115v leads power the fan, which is also the transformer primary, and the 24v leads are the transformer output. For a separate 115v fan and transformer, tie each black to 1 fan lead and 1 transformer lead, and 1 24v lead to each transformer output lead.- Tim
Reply:Totally wrong - you do *NOT* want the fan and transformer primary in series - you want them in parallel. You have two more leads than original because the transformer is separate now, which it was not originally. So, as I already said, tieing the fan in parallel with the transformer primary will be equivalent to the original where the coil on the motor was also used as the transformer primary.So connect RC11-1 to one fan lead and one transformer primary lead. RC11-2 to the other fan lead and other transformer primary. RC11-3 to one transformer secondary (24v) lead and RC11-4 to the other. The third black is a center tap - make sure you identify the correct lead, and tape it off. And since this is AC, polarity is not relevant - either of a given transformer color is fine.And baded on that schematic, it always was a 110v fan . . .- TimLast edited by tadawson; 05-11-2013 at 03:41 PM.
Reply:Check to see if you have power going to the motor when trigger is depressed.If not, dollars to dog nuts PTC1 on the circuit board failed.Very common.The part is around $1.50Solder a new one and be done.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Originally Posted by tadawsonTotally wrong - you do *NOT* want the fan and transformer primary in series - you want them in parallel. You have two more leads than original because the transformer is separate now, which it was not originally. So, as I already said, tieing the fan in parallel with the transformer primary will be equivalent to the original where the coil on the motor was also used as the transformer primary.So connect RC11-1 to one fan lead and one transformer primary lead. RC11-2 to the other fan lead and other transformer primary. RC11-3 to one transformer secondary (24v) lead and RC11-4 to the other. The third black is a center tap - make sure you identify the correct lead, and tape it off. And since this is AC, polarity is not relevant - either of a given transformer color is fine.And baded on that schematic, it always was a 110v fan . . .- Tim
Reply:Follow up -wired the transformer as per Tim's instructions and fixed a few other small issues while putting the welder back together. I only had time to test a small 1" long bead or so on a scrap piece but the welder functions correctly again. thanks guys!
Reply:Glad to hear it!- Tim
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