How many people have looked at this advertising and what are your comments concerning the shown results?http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/av564.pdf Do the Lincolns Claim to be Made in USA?
Reply:Well now! It looks like Mr. Lincoln has started a whop *** campaign on Mr. Miller! Can't we all just get along?
Reply:It's just amazing how them well edumuficatud Madison Ave boys can write bulls#!t.Damn, I coulda made some money if I had just thought to promote wingnuts over hex nuts as convenient toolless adjustment devices.Only an edumuficatud fellow could turn we saved a few bucks on the Cannon plug into "secure internal connections" Yup, that some real Hillopotomous level talkin.OK, I'll give em the ground clamp, Miller does put a s#!t ground clamp on a lot of machines, and that POS undoubtedly does cause a few problems at the upper end of the machine's capability.I'll even give Lincoln points for the Nomex insulator between the core and the windings, although I wonder why they went with Nomex rather than Nylon or another thermoplastic. Only reason I can think is so they could run the transformer hotter & longer, and that might account for why they didn't go with wood.The brass to brass against brass to aluminum on the drive don't mean much, either way, in the right atmousphere both are going to develope corrosion.I figure Lincoln either don't read the Hofart board, or that puff piece was published before the fecal matter hit the fan there last week, or Lincoln might have put that in their puff piece too.The range comparison graph is pure B S. There is entirely too much emphasis being put on settings and amp copmparisons in the home market machines. People buy those things beleiving if they set the damn dial and pull the trigger they will be an instant weldor, and it just ain't gonna happen.As far as Made in USA, Lincoln won't go near that on the homeowner machines cause I'm pretty sure they are all coming from Italy.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:As many people would say it doesn't matter where the machine is being Made anymore because it is probably a lie so it doesn't matter just accept it. If they can accept it so can I. Have been told some of the parts for the Lincoln SP135 PLUS is still Made in the USA do you have proof it is entirely imported? I don't really care about where the Hobarts or Millers are Made as long as they don't use the Made in USA Label as a Lie.That Lincoln advertising ABOVE has been out for well over a year and maybe longer. It is not new or in response to what has recently happened on the Hobart Forum.Have never read a complaint about the Lincoln SP135 Plus MIG but have read a few complaints about the Millermatic 135 and 175 about their self adjusting wire speed when adjusting voltages. "I also own a MM 175 and I honestly would buy another HH 175 before I ever bought another MM 175. The Hobart Handlers are a simplier machine to tune the arc in on, with there tapped voltage selection design."
Reply:As to proof the small lincolns are made in Italy, just what I've heard and seen in several locations. I never bothered looking at one to see where it was made.About 6 months back I was looking into a 175 class machine and specificly asked a dealer who sells both MM and HH machines witch was better. He advised the Miller is a superior machine to the Hobart. I've run a MM225 for over 20 years, witch is a tapped machine, and from my point of view, infinate adjustment isn't necessary to someone who knows how to use the machine. It may be beneficial to a new guy starting out.If I recall correctly, the MM is available without the wire tracking if you ask for it. Wire tracking to me is about like an automatic headlight dimmer on a car, just something else to go wrong.One suttlety that is appearing more often in the advertising of machines and products is the term "Welding Operator" or "Machine operator". This use of words substituted for WeldOr makes me wonder if reps are now marketing to industry the story that MIG has gotten so damn good you no longer need a weldor to run a welder. That marketing concept wouldn't surprize me.Tapped/switched -v- infinite control is probably at this point in time a wash on cost of building. I think the infinite control machines use an SCR setup to switch the power on and off to acheive current, but since I never looked close at one I can't say for sure.The actual weld deposit regardless of machine manufacture is far more a function of the man making the weld than of the machine used in the comparison made in the advertisement. We don't even know if the same weldor made both welds.There is also the reality that 2 machines from the same manufacturer, of the same model, can and will run differently. You can even shut a machine down today, and come back tomorrow and have different performence because the humidity in the air has corroded your wire. When this happens to me, I recognize the problem, and compensate for it, or scrap a hundred feet of wire. The same situation in the hands of a new guy would probably drive him nuts.I really put very little faith in advertising, it has evolved into the science of telling you to go to hell in a way you'll look forward to the trip. They've gotten so good at it now they market products that are close to useless in a way that makes you want to run out and get them because you are sure you can't live without the POS.As to where a machine is made, I really don't give a damn, but when I'm lyed to about where the machine was made, I also figure I was bulls#!tted about everything else.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Not trying to add fuel to the fire - BUT. Especially with electrical and electronic parts (as used in all welders), you would be hard pressed to find one that DID NOT contain imported components. Almost all solid state devices are made overseas. Many of the terminals and connectors are not made in the US anymore. As far as that goes, much of the common hardware we use today is imported. The real problem is defining "Made in USA". The FTC or some government agency has defined it, but who really checks for compliance?Allen T.
Reply:MIG considerations strictly for steel sheetmetal
ooked at HTP 120 and have to wonder how it compares to the Miller 135, Hobart 135, and Lincoln SP135 Plus. http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/...ers/tough.html http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/...s/mig_120.html http://store.yahoo.com/htp/mig1201.html Never read or heard one complaint about the HTP Migs. For some reason these MIGs seem to be heavier then the competition. Probably the only small MIG listed to still use copper for the windings. Was always told a good rule of thumb for copper wiring VS aluminum wiring is it takes about twice the diameter for Aluminum Wiring AWG VS Copper Wiring AWG. What is AWG or is it being imported too? Is that correct for the Al VS Cu wiring.After all we don't care. What about the Clarke's - suppose to be Made in Italy? Ferrari is suppose to be Made in Italy. Ferrari sure is purdy when they run and can afford the maintenance. BTW people I used to be on the OLD Hobart Forum before it changed to the newer style Indo-China Tool Works. Very distinctly remember people bashing the HTP and Clarke as being Foreign Made. One or two people went on and on about how the CEO at HTP is also the Floor sweeper and Head Trouble Shooter as an Intended Insult. If only those people spouting Made in USA knew what would be has come to pass......... Last edited by JustLooking; 01-18-2004 at 03:09 AM.
Reply:Just for the Older Folks:The Times they are a Changin.The line it is drawnThe curse it is castThe slow one nowWill later be fastAs the present nowWill later be pastThe order isRapidly fadin'.And the first one nowWill later be lastFor the times they are a-changin'.http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/times.htmlLast edited by JustLooking; 01-18-2004 at 03:32 AM.
Reply:Yup, them times are a changin, and they've already paved Paradise and made it a parking lot for some damn discount store that went bust, that got replaced by a minimall that also went bust, and now the junkies have a flop in the part of the building that isn't too skorched from the fires they use to keep warm.50 years back, Betty Furness came on our black & white TV and told us how GE's most important product was PROGRESS, and GE has progressed away from electrical items and devices and become a major financial institution. Times change, how the hell may of you remember polio and iron lungs, or smallpox? Cheapening of products is different from lowering cost of production so Joe Sixpack can have a MIG machine in his garage at home. HTP may very well be an excellent product, but chances are I'll never know because of the marketing methid HTP has chosen to pursue. Were I to have the chance to test drive one, I'd do so, and I'd voice my honest opinion on the machine, so that probably eliminates any chance HTP will solicit me as a product tester.Aluminum -v- Copper windings, it's a matter of cost of material, and some minor cost difference in winding the coil. #12 copper plastic insulated wire will carry a hair more than 20 amps, and the same aluminum wire will carry 17.3 amps in the same circumstance. Aluminum Romex was marketed to hell and back in the 60s for household wiring, and by the mid 70s, there were a number of house fires attributed to it. By the 80s, aluminum Romex had vanished from the market, and most of what had been installed in houses was removed and replaced. Aluminum expands far more than copper when heated, and that caused a lot of termination failures, along with corrosion.If you recall back about a month, there was a post on Hofart regarding HTP machines, and my response was to invite Mr HTP to come on the forum and tell us about his machine just as Petrogen had. Did I beat up on the Opetrol product from China, YOU BET, and I did so for a lot of reasons most hobby weldors won't begin to understand.Petrogen is a wonderful product, IF you have the application for it, and the knowledge to use it, but it AIN'T a home hobby weldor tool. Petrogen has advertised in Rock& Dirt for over 20 years, because they know that is where their market is. You don't use a claw hammer to break boulders, and you don't use a Petrogen torch to cut 1/4" steel at home. It just isn't the right tool for the job.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:"Do the Lincolns Claim to be Made in USA?"looking through a copy of the TP tools catalog, the SP-135, SP-175 and the square wave tig 175 all state that they are made in the USA. but in all fairness, i used to think that my work was "made in the USA", till i found out that some of my steel suppliers are stocking steel from canada. now i have to say that everything is "assembled in the USA" of foreign components.
Reply:Just hope they don't need customer service from Lincoln....I'm sorry what customer service.....Millermatic 210Dynasty 200DX Fisher CZ-5Trek 5500
Reply:Originally posted by Wheat Just hope they don't need customer service from Lincoln....I'm sorry what customer service.....
Reply:Before all this crap happened on the Hobart site the only thing I didn't like about the site was all the pro-miller/Hobart "propaganda" I run a Bobcat 225 on my truck with no real complaints use to have a Lincoln weldanpower 225 on it. My dealer switched from a Lincoln rep to a Miller rep. that was the main reason in purchasing the Miller. Over the years most shopsI've worked in used Lincolns. Don't know if it has anything to do with the region of the country I live in or not. I also have a Lincoln squarewave 255 and have not had any problems out of it .My point is , for me the main factor in purchase isn't blue or red or any other color but service by my dealer. I have never tried to talk to the manufacture about a problem with my machines ( I always figured they would take too long to get back to me) so I call my local dealer. As far as made in u.s.a. I don't know I figure they all have some imported parts don't like it but thats the way it is but kf1128 is right about the steel cut up a bunch of 3/4" plate the other day that said made in Romania and for some reason thought that was very strange.Still lookin for Rock!
Reply:Marketeers in general want us to fool ourselves into believing that "assembled in the USA" is the same as "made in the USA". Unfortunately, the days are past when anything much more complex than a hammer can claim to be exclusively made in the USA. The study of science and engineering is too hard for many in our wimpy new generation (except for immigrants, of course). Our brightest now aspire to become contingency fee or mass tort lawyers or some other despicable occupation. Manufacturing has become a dirty word, especially with an overzealous EPA and OSHA trying to push it offshore, rather than help.Much of remaining US manufacturing is beset with a lack of leadership and courage. One way to screw up a good old-line manufacturing company is to bring in consultants. Since you should know your business better than anyone outside, if you have to bring in a consultant to tell you what your problems are, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! These phonies are usually hired to downsize a company, since the management doesn't have the guts to do it themselves. Another way to really take a company down the tubes quickly is to hire newly-minted Ivy League MBA's, who have all the answers that they just learned from theoretical academic professors who have never been in industry! Just let them apply Theory X and Theory Y with no controls for a few months and see what happens! ________________________________________________-WHO JUST KICKED MY SOAPBOX OUT FROM UNDER ME?
Reply:What can you say about a country, that feeds of the populace, doesn't encourage industry, and who run legal extortion rackets. Case in point. Some months ago, while traveling accross southern Missourri, on a two lane road. Very little traffic, nearly none, in the middle of nowhere, driving my old 64 f100, with different geears in the rearend, and different sized tires, from the originals, going up a little hill, a state trooper, toped the hill coming towards me. I knwo I was running to fast, didn't know how fast but knew I was speeding, so I pulled over, besides I saw his light go on. He came up behind me, nice young man, obviously still wet behind the ears, mommas milk still on his lips. I greated him freindly like. He started off in the usual vein freindly of course. He had clocked me at 11 mile an hour over the speed limit, gasp, horid killer, crriminal I must obviously have been. To make a long story short. When he got done, and handed me the ticket he said something about being able to keep this off my record and that I could do so by doing such and such. I didn't think mcuh about it, till a week or so later, when I got a letter, form some lawyer, basically to the same point. It looks to me, like criminal intent to create system to extort more money from tourist and our of staters, and in staters to I supose. A money mill. In other words, leagl extortion. Our system is riddled with this, and we have gestapo for law enforcement, and not protectors of our rights. Big brother, I would go on and on, but he's watching. Don't tell.RichSure hope I get to them golden years I keep hearing about. The ones I'm living now, hurt like the devil. Youth is wasted on the young.
Reply:OlPilot,I enjoyed your post very much and see it as very accurate.I worked for a software company that was started by a hardworking, honest entrepreneur. He very capably built up the company and sold it to a Wall Street firm. I was happy for him. He put $26.2 Million in his pocket plus all kinds of other benies.The new owner brought in a CEO with no experience in our industry and the guy ran it down quite a bit. Then they brought in another CEO who had even less industry experience but since, in his mind, he was SOOOoooooo much smarter than anyone else he would not listen to any of us that had significant experience in the business.He finally drove it completely into the ground. He took a company with 300 employees down to less than fifty with paycuts two years in a row. It was finally purchased by a company that put a guy at the helm with LOTS of industry experience PLUS the willingness to listen to others, and weigh their input as he makes decisions. The company is now back on the road to recovery.It takes MUCH more than an MBA to operate a company successfully. It takes experience in that particular business and enough intelligence to know when to shut up and listen.Merry Christmas,Doc"I live so far out in the boondocks, my TV runs on Propane."
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