More beginner questions

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:18:21 GMT

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I am also a beginner .. and have a cheapy HF MIG 151 .. Pain in the butt to feed the wire thru LOL .. But cheap is what cheap does  ,, LOL Anyways .. If I practice a straight bead ..  I dont get that "stacked dime" lookeven when I whip the tip ..  kinda like waltzing ..  1 . 2. 3. .. LOL I watch the puddle .. the wire is melting at the puddle with thefrying bacon sound ...  slag forms on the top .. but its just a straight"smooth" weld ..  I know functional is more important then purdy .. LOL .. Now .. strange thing is ..  I welded a pipe to a flat surface .. and did a loop kind of weave pattern .. and I can see a dimelook to that ..  So why is that?? is it because of the fillet difference?? Heres a couple pics of some of my practice welds... When I get time .. I am going to cut some sectionsoff and try to break the weld ... my friend has a 10 ton arbourpress...  ( I know ... be careful .. could be quite the projectile there ) These welds are on 1/4" steel in a "T" 120 AMPS, DCEN, Flux Core Wire ( no gas )http://community.webshots.com/photo/...84923269vMasal This one is actually two welds that joined in the middle .. thats why the middle looks like it does .. http://community.webshots.com/photo/...84923140pMdvec Be gentle ..  but constructive please..    One more question .. is it ok to weld something uhmmm thicker then youhave current  for so long as you get some reasonable penetration and youcan weld it so that there is strength from more then one side? Like this "T",I weld it from both sides.. but I know I didn't get full penetration with my piddly 120 amps ..    some views on that would be great .. ThanksRandyLast edited by Lanmanb4; 07-03-2005 at 09:38 PM.Reason: Fixing Links
Replyanman,If this is new to you then you're not doing too bad, and I didn't see a lot of the typical splatter all over heck like some newbies start out with and flux core. AND if this is new to you, that stack of dimes look isn't one of your priorities. Once you're confident with your pentration, joint design abilities, and overall welding skills maybe go for that look if you feel like it's a must. What happens is that with some welds there will be that stacked appearance but it used to be coincidental to the weld, not a goal. Someone somewhere along the line thought it was neat and made it a target to shoot for. There are certain issues that can arise if the stack of dimes look is your main focus. Study up on stress risers, internal and external. One more question .. is it ok to weld something uhmmm thicker then youhave current for so long as you get some reasonable penetration and youcan weld it so that there is strength from more then one side? Like this "T",I weld it from both sides.. but I know I didn't get full penetration with my piddly 120 amps .. some views on that would be great ..
Reply thanks Sandy,Lanman,  for starts I think it looks pretty good.  I saw a pinch stroke of undercut on one pic.  Not too shabby, especially if you dont know what your looking for.  Anyway, as far as what Sandy is telling you,  dead on.  The stacked dimes look is cosmetically appealing, but it doesnt mean anything.  Actually, the look of your welds is much that of the 6010/6011 look which is typically done with a whipping action.   Try a more like circular or perhaps a square or even a C shape when you weld.  To make the C from left to right looks like a C and from right to left should be a backward C.  Make sense?  This allows you to heat up your sides first before laying on the heavy deposit.  Also, a real killer for newer welders is their travel speed.  Slow down, no need to rush. For the record Ive seen young welders, and more experienced ones as well, make nice stack of dimes with mig, only to have the weld break.  Ive seen in books and pictures where the weld looked beautiful, stack of dimes, and then peeled right off.  I havent seen it first hand but a friend of mine described a demo he saw of welding mig solid wire to aluminum and it peels right off also.  Yet the weld looks like a stack of dimes.  Whats important is not as much cosmetics but about stress risers.  You do want penetration, but more importantly fusion.  Fusion means that mean actually melted together.  If its not melted together nothing else matter.  Another thing would be making sure you dont have porosity(bubbles, pinholes) and you want to watch out for the undercut.  If your bead is high and narrow thats a bad sign.  Another thing you can do for reference, look around at your environment.  Its full of welds. And many are crappy.  But they surprisingly hold up.  Dont limit yourself to these, but if you see whats out there it will prolly bring a sigh of relief.  Start by looking under your car, metal patio furniture, anything made of metal basically.  You'll start to see what I mean.  Hope this helps.  Good luck to youCHRIS
Reply:Thanks everyone .. I appreciate the input .. I have only been doing this for about 10 days .. Already went thru a 2 lb spool of wire though LOL .. Thats when I realized just how cheap that MIG was .. the liner separated from the gun, I found this out when Itook it apart to see if the wire made it that far when feeding it .. yeah ... it makes sense that penetration / fusion is more important .. I did cut some similiar welds apart and it looked like the weld did penetrateand " was one with the metal"   LOL ..  sounds like the Yoda of welding .. LMAOI can do another T weld on some thinker stuff and cut the weld and take a picture ifthat would help in giving opinions on the welds .. Thanks again .. I appreciate all the kind advice .. and will surely have more questions ..uhmmm acutally .. heres a side note .. can I TIG with this welder if I  hook a High Freq Unit to it to start the weld ??  How about one of those BBQ lighters with no fuel in it??    J/K  Thanks again all ..Last edited by Lanmanb4; 07-04-2005 at 08:03 AM.Reason: Grammar
Replyooks like I cant type this morning .. acutally = actuallythinker stuff = thinner stuffSorry bout that .. Randy
Reply:Well most likely your using a wire feeder and it has no tig capability.  only the larger more advanced "new age" mig machines sometimes have multi process capability.  Stick welders do offer the ability to double as a tig machine, but they are horribly incompetant in this regard.  Well hope this helps.  Good luckCHRIS
Reply:Thanks Chris for the added info .. Heres a pic of my "practice tree" LMAO Practice Tree a.k.a. Yard Art that piece on top is interesting in that I was curious .. and just tacked that bar to that piece of flat stock .. ( which was straight ) , then put it in the vise and proceeded to beaton it with a small sledge hammer .. and all I suceeded in doing is bending the flat stock .. that would be a good thing I think  Thanks again for all the help .. and I will upgrade my welder at some point I'm sure .. Randy
Reply:your welds dont look bad.  Thats a very good sign when you have tacks, beat the hell outta something and it only bends and not breaks at the tacks.  When you upgrade your machine my advice to you will be to deceide what kind of work you plan to do.  After decieding the type of work you expect to do, figure out what machine will suffice.  Tig welders are nice, but they arent good for a lot of work.  A lot of hobby guys dont need tig, even if they think they do.  Stick is good due to start up cost.  However, operator skill is a bit more of a challenge.  Mig machines are capable of solid wire with gas, flux wire with gas, metal core with gas, and flux core no gas.  They also have the capability for aluminium welding.  I am noramally an advocate of the smaw process, but today Im feeling good and will say that mig is a good one for a lot of people.  Just something to chew on.  Hope you have a good day.   Good luckCHRIS
Reply:Howdy!  I see similar weld apearance to my first welds!  they look structurally sound, and reasonably purdy   I would also suggest the C shape, I have found in very valuable for our smaller mig machines.  I elongate the C about 30% though, so the area ahead of the C is somewhat preheated.  Sometimes something as easy as pre-heating with a cheepo propane torch helps with those metals that are borderline of being too thick for single pass welds.  Weld preperation is a good practice too.  If you have two pieces (for you, thicker then 1/4")  say 1/2" butted up to each other, grind a 30-45 deg angle on top edge of each piece to be welded.  Have a gap about 1/16th"  at the "root edge", and about 1/8th" worth of vertical sides.  Then for BEST practices, place a copper backing plate or carbon plate... Cu is about 10$ for a 18" X 1 1/2" X 3/8ths" thick.  The weld metal won't stick to the Cu, and with this trick, you can weld metals much thicker then your welder ever could in single pass.  I would get some scrap thick stock and try it just for kicks!  Brian Lee  Sparkeee24
Replyanmanb4 those welds are looking good, a handy way to check them is to slash across one with the grinder, when you look at the weld end on you should have a nice even triangle. If it's not then maybe adjust your gun angle (but your's look pretty good), if it's concave slow down.   On fillet size your fillet should equal the smallest section your welding, this is a rule of thumb. (If you've heard of that)Cheers Stephen
Reply:Thanks again all .. Someone mentioned an "acid test" ?? I have another weld I was going to post and then I think Iwill cut it in half and look at the weld and so this is why Iwanted to know more about that acid test??Also ..  can someone tell me the best pattern to start theweld ?? I guess doubling back is for the end ..  I was just doing a circle at the start .. What should I be doing ? ThanksRandy
Reply:Actually for a while I wouldn't work on any patterns so to speak. A simple side to side motion, small, just enough to wet the sides and flatten the center. In fact some don't care for the circle as a blanket statement. Too easy to get too large a circle going so there is a freeze thing happening then you circle back into it but only after it has started to or has set up. Just worry about a nice wet puddle behind you and controlling that. All the slag has a chance to come out that way and less chance of stress risers that need ground smooth.One of my own perceptions is that mig starts seem to always be a little cold. Be interesting to hear a solution to that. Maybe your circle at the beginning. I dunno.Just finish off a few ends without a double back and you'll see that little crater or cave in develop. I guess that is what the double back is for, to add filler to that and help prevent that. I do it a lot and it seems to work most of the time. Often tho and larger fills it'll just create a longer cavity (??)..  I have better luck with a very slight pause then a short pulse to blends and fills in.
Reply:well heres another attempt at a reasonable flux core weld .. I am getting a little more used to watching what the puddle is doing .. That seems to be helping alot ..  I should have my C25 regulator this week and will setup for somegas welds and see how that goes .. T-joint Weld I'm also watching the wire and it seems to be melting just above the puddle ?Does that sound about right ..  or just depends on what you are doing .. In my case short circuit of course .. Randy
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckyour welds dont look bad.  Thats a very good sign when you have tacks, beat the hell outta something and it only bends and not breaks at the tacks.  When you upgrade your machine my advice to you will be to deceide what kind of work you plan to do.  After decieding the type of work you expect to do, figure out what machine will suffice.  Tig welders are nice, but they arent good for a lot of work.  A lot of hobby guys dont need tig, even if they think they do.  Stick is good due to start up cost.  However, operator skill is a bit more of a challenge.  Mig machines are capable of solid wire with gas, flux wire with gas, metal core with gas, and flux core no gas.  They also have the capability for aluminium welding.  I am noramally an advocate of the smaw process, but today Im feeling good and will say that mig is a good one for a lot of people.  Just something to chew on.  Hope you have a good day.   Good luckCHRIS
Reply:No Randy, this is a more industrial thing.  It is fluxcore, but its not selfshielded.  Without gas it pinholes just like solid wire.  But it does have flux.  Its a little funny like that. But it works good.CHRIS
Reply:How interesting .. Did you look at my post above that one and see my T-joint weld pic ?? Randy
Replyh ****, sorry I wanted to comment,  looking good there.  There is room for improvement, but with practice...not much more than practiceChris
Reply:Can anyone tell me the average voltage and amps settings for fluxcore to be used on 3/4" steel. Is it the same for flat, horizontal, uphill, and overhead welding? Please answer asap, I have a weld test to take tommorrow. Helpppppppp!
Reply:I wonder how ND did on his test?