another hardfacing question

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:53:33 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for another hardfacing question

As some of you know I work in the recycling industry. The recyclables are dumped on a concrete floor an are then moved with a loader or skid steer. Of course the operator will clean the floor with the bucket and they do not care to understand the float postion of the controls. They insist on pressing the bucket against the floor until the loaders front wheels are about a foot in air. This kills cutting edges.They will wear out both edges of a bolt on cutting edge in about 9 or 10 months.  From direct experience what if any hardfacing rod would be best for a cutting edge that is being scrapped against concrete? Please no one just post copies of manufactures sales catalogs, I can read but thing don't always work the catalod states.I would perfer something that flows out very smooth thats going to slide on the concrete instead of something rather than something that is going to leave a high and rough profile. Impact resistance would only have to be low to moderate as they're not trying to break out chunks of concrete, at least not yet.I doubt I would be as lucky as to find such a rod and also have it run in the horzontal position so I guess I will have to remove the bucket to hardface it.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Replyont know all that much about hardfacing.If I had to hardface i would also add skid blocks. Attached ImagesA butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Replyroblem it is a bucket not a blade. Actually some of the buckets have wear bars on the back but the operator use an angle such that the wear bars seldom touch the concrete. We never worn one of those wear bars out.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Well then I would stops on the bucket tilt lever Ha HA HaA butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:I've used Stoody 31 or 35 for yrs and it goes on smooth.It's about the same as stainless rod as far as bead formation goes. If you keep the amps low it will run horizontal, but I think removing the bucket would work best.                                      MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by tresi...I would perfer something that flows out very smooth thats going to slide on the concrete instead of something that is going to leave a high and rough profile....
Reply:9 to 10 months of wear on a blade doesn't seem that unreasonable considering what it is being used for. You stated it is a bolt on blade. Get a spare blade. When one is worn down, change it out. That gives you 9 or 10 months to rebuild the worn one in any position you need to weld it in. If you have ten loaders working that still gives you about a month to reface each blade. Cheap maintainance in the long run.Check with Stoody. Hardfacing rods are what they have done for a long, long time. If you can't trust their expertice I don't know who could tell you better.
Replyook for some high nickel hardfacing rods.Denrep, that is a good idea, but in long wear situations in Agriculture,  we resort to using nylon or a high density, smooth wearing plastic such as bolt ons for mouldboard plows. Last 5 times or more longer than steel.  Easy to work, Easy to shape.Last edited by lugweld; 12-04-2008 at 11:04 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:uhmw edges work great for this and polish the floor to boot.operator training is a tough thing. We were at a steel mill in ohio and the overhead crane operators were smacking the top of the electric transformer vault by the furnace ( big CMU building)   with the scrap bucket.   The plant maintenance manager repaired it one last time and painted it blazing white. He then instructed all of the crane operators ( 6 total ) that the first time he saw that paint scuffed ( understatement of the year) they would all be fired and if possible he would scrap their cars before they got changed out of their uniforms.8 years and no more bucket hits. people are real stubborn until they know they will lose their job. especially in these economic times.hope its not  a union shopinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:tresi,  It sounds like the cost of doing business to me.  My crew will kill a new edge (on asphalt)in a month during the busy summer season. We usually flip 'em once if I get a chance to get the machine in the shop. I have no idea what edges actually cost, but I wonder if it is worth the energy to rebuild one?Sorry, none of that helped to answer your actual question.
Reply:Will the uhmw edges stand up to the operators lifting the front end of the loader by pressing the bucket against the floor? operator training? I'm still trying to teach them No worky No eaty. We only have 1 loader and 1 skid steer. And yes our concrete is worn really smooth but will the uhmw stand up to the occassional digging in compacted crush rock?Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldtimer9 to 10 months of wear on a blade doesn't seem that unreasonable considering what it is being used for. You stated it is a bolt on blade. Get a spare blade. When one is worn down, change it out. That gives you 9 or 10 months to rebuild the worn one in any position you need to weld it in. If you have ten loaders working that still gives you about a month to reface each blade. Cheap maintainance in the long run.Check with Stoody. Hardfacing rods are what they have done for a long, long time. If you can't trust their expertice I don't know who could tell you better.
Reply:dont know about the crushed rock, but its worth a try.insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Why not both? Attached ImagesA butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Mount some small dolley wheels under the blade, so it maintains an 1/8" clearance between the bottom of the blade and the concrete floor.Good judgement comes from experience.Experience comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Originally Posted by jtrapperMount some small dolley wheels under the blade, so it maintains an 1/8" clearance between the bottom of the blade and the concrete floor.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresi... Of course the operator will clean the floor with the bucket and they do not care to understand the float postion of the controls. They insist on pressing the bucket against the floor until the loaders front wheels are about a foot in air.  ....
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoThat must be hard on the concrete also.I regret that I can't advise you on hardface... but your problem can be cured by establishing standard operating practices, training the operator, and then enforcing those practices.  If the operator can't adhear to the standard practices established he gets replaced.I don't want to get on a rant so I wil keep this short:  The situation is another example of implementing technology to compensate for dysfunctional human behavior.-Mondo
Reply:Tresi can't help you out but wanted to respond to the other posters. If we lived in a perfect world where operators were well trained and used said training and employees took care of the equipment the way they should there would be a whole lot of welders out of work so I for one like those guys that abuse the equipment (as long as it's not mine).
Reply:for your application hard facing the blade would be ok, but when digging and grading I found that I'd rather let the blade wear out because  hard facing a tempered hardened blade tends to make it crack and break, I'll take a pic tomorrow of a pile of buckets that are in line for new blades because another welder at my work insisted on hard facing them.
Reply:When I worked at a dairy farm we used a scraper made from a rubber tire to clean the barn aisles of manure.  It was a large grader tire cut in half and laid flat so you were pushing with the open end of a semi circle.  It works great and caused no damage to our floors and with some practice would leave them almost dry.  It also lasts very long running it 4-5 hrs a day every day probably get a few years from one scraper.There was also a rubber blade on the front so you could also drag with it.  I don know who makes it but I would certainly look into it.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiWouldn't trying to hardface a cutting edge that was unbolted from the bucket result in an edge that wraped like a bananna?
Reply:I've spent plenty of time working with dairy ranches,,,,,  constantly scraping concrete, whether loading feed trucks or cleaning manure.   IF, you are using genuine Caterpillar bolt-on blades, you're best off leaving them be; they are hard enough you're gonna get the best possible wear anyway.   Try hardfacing them, you'll get other issues, not good.   Fact is, with a metal cutting edge, you're not gonna get a clean scrape, unless you constantly, as the blade wears, keep tipping the bucket more forwards as time goes on.   If you did attempt to hardface it, you would end up with a rounded edge,   The ONLY way, I could ever see hardfacing working on any loader blade on concrete, is put it on TOP of the beveled edge, but an impact-resistant variety (so it doesn't chip off), it will wear underneath, but leave a sharp clean edge in front (kind of like a ripper point); reducing the need to tip the bucket forwards as time goes on.  If you're getting 9 months out of a set of blades, that's not really terrible.   It IS a replaceable wear part, designed to be easily flipped or replaced when necessary, that's what it's designed for, prevents wear on other more expensive, and harder to replace parts.Last edited by mark8310; 12-08-2008 at 06:50 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerJust saw this as my ISP has been down for a couple of days. It would have to be clamped down to something to restrain it. Outta be OK if you did that.