How to cope wide flange with oxy-acetylene torch.
Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:49:40 GMT
I need to cope 6"x4" wide flange, ive measured the depth i need to cut inside. Do I cut the top and bottom of the wide flange and then the inside the web?
Reply:Hello IrishRoseWelding, are you trying to cope the end so that it can fit inside of another beam of the same size and weight and also weld it all-around? If so, I would suggest blocking both the top and bottom flange(measure back on the flange the depth of the cope and then transfer the lines up from the web to allow both sides of the flange to be cut and not cut into the web) and then grinding one side flat, laying out the cuts for the flanges to clear, and then cutting those portions out, staying back just a bit from the end that meets the existing flange, and grinding the portion that is in close to the inside of the cope to avoid cutting into that portion inadvertently. I'm sorry if that's hard to follow, I'll try to include a sketch. Good luck and best regards, Allan Attached ImagesLast edited by aevald; 06-06-2012 at 10:04 PM.Reason: to add imageaevald
Reply:This is what a cope should look like. Notice the radius. I lay out for the cope with soap stone. When the beam is upright I make my first cut across the top flange. When I do this I take into consideration that my cut will cut into the web possibly too far. So what I do is while I am making that first cut through the flange I tilt the torch in the direction of travel so that as I pass through center it barely penetrates the web. Depending on the size of the beam and your oxy/acet pressure at the torch, I might increase travel speed if necessary. Just don't cut too far into the web. Now all you have to do is cut the web so it connects to the flange cut. Attached Images
Reply:Hello 66mynd, unfortunately the OP hasn't replied to determine what type of "coping" that he is trying to accomplish. The type that your picture shows is a clearance cope for a bolted connection from what I see. Nice description, nice job of doing it. Once assembled, your particular cope would likely allow for a roughly 1/2" gap between the flanges of the two beams being bolted together. Am I close? Best regards, AllanEdit: I've included an image that somewhat gives a comparison of these two different types of copes, although my image doesn't show the bolting clip being used. Attached ImagesLast edited by aevald; 06-07-2012 at 08:12 PM.Reason: to add an imageaevald
Reply:Thanks aevald, yes its roughly 1/2" on most of the connections I come across. I've never come across a structural connection that looks like the picture you posted. I would be interested to know where that connection is ideal.
Reply:Hello 66mynd, I understand your question. If it were any sort of code application you would likely not see a fit-up like that, it would generally be in a non-code application such as a machinery base, possibly a trailer building set-up or some other sort of fabrication that is not code related, at least not D1.1. . I have included a sketch that may better match the sort of thing that you have had to work with in structural fit-ups and weld-outs. Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Oh ok, I see what you mean. Yes, I've done connections as your latest picture shows, I have not seen it very often though. Full penn top and bottom, doesn't look like it specifies whats going on with the web. Instead of that I see more connections that have a bolted moment plate top and bottom so that you would get the same results... I'm not an engineer but thats my best guess.
Reply:Hello 66mynd, in the Pacific Northwest we are considered to be seismically challenged, thus after the Northridge quakes in California and the subsequent fall-out from it, there was a major shift in engineering and welding specifications. Allowable self-shielded wires changed, the engineering and weld procedures for much of the structural steel being erected changed, and a host of other things were implemented. I believe that is the time when FEMA 353 was put into place as a supplement for governing welding practices on structural steel erection and welding.Not all work is under FEMA 353 and likely there are exceptions based on size and application of a structural project as well. Geographically I am of the understanding that the West coast and possibly a few other locations in the continental United States utilize FEMA 353 in conjunction with AWS D1.1 or similar codes with regard to seismic conditions where and when they apply. In our classroom we have a mock-up steel structure with a number of different connection examples. I need to update and expand it again, there are just so many different combinations that are in use and have been used. We try to give students the opportunity to visually see, touch, smell, these things and allow them to have some recognition of what they may become involved with when they end up in a fab-shop or on a field-erection crew. Thank you for continuing this conversation as some of the folks looking in on this might appreciate the subject and it's discussions and content. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Hey aevald, do you have the picture of the mockup steel structure? I saw pictures of them online and in 2008 I decided I wanted to build one for my apprentice school. At the time I finished my apprenticeship with the NYC ironworkers local 361 and 40. I searched online and made phone calls and finally a fabricator down south had a set of drawings faxed over to me. I made a material list and a few days a week after work over the course of a couple months I built it. I deviated somewhat from the original and added a few things that we come across in the field frequently. All of the new guys learn off it, makes me feel great that I did it. Attached Images
Reply:Hello again 66mynd, that's a nice looking piece, kudos to you for providing such an item for others to see and learn from. Ours isn't quite as extensive as yours, but then, we're not an ironworker training center either. I teach at a community college, we service a lot of the fab shops in the area, and have a number of wood-products facilities, as well as a number of paper mills that we work with to provide training. Along with these things we try to give students a well-rounded experience in other areas that they may eventually end up in. I'll include a few pictures of some of the "hands on" type visual devices that we have in our classroom. I teach a theory and fabrication class that we utilize many of these for and my partner handles the bluepring reading portion. These classes are in conjunction with many other lab welding classes.Great to see that you have taken that step to provide for your cohorts and provide them with such a great training aid. Best regards, Allan Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Here are a few more items: Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Got a few more items that promote the visual/hands-on type learning: Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Just a bit more: Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:I believe in visual and hands-on learning and I believe most of our students appreciate that approach. They know that they need to get time in the booth to work on their welding skills and then they also appreciate the opportunity to "see" how things go together or are laid-out and processed prior to, during , and finally to the point where welding is required. Here are a few more pics: Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Wow that's a hell of a school. Makes me realize how much there is to learn out there. I love all the layout tools you have. The way you splice that bent plate with the string line clamped is how we splice beams in the field. I can't tell you how many jobs I go on where we have to get 30' I beams on the roof of a high rise, no crane. It'll come in 3 pieces and we splice it on the roof. I agree, the hands on/visual is the way to go.
Reply:First I'll have to appologize to IrishRoseWelding for hijacking his thread. I guess sometimes I get off on a tangent when something interest me. Having said that, once again, 66mynd, I appreciate your comments and interest in a topic that has brought me much satisfaction and monetary reward for many years. I can see that you obviously have some similar interest in sharing and educating those around you and no doubt can appreciate learning when the opportunity arises. Ultimately, being involved in related trades that crossover and intermix so much will always make my job interesting and rewarding. There are a lot of unions that are comprised of various welding/fitting skills and they have been very receptive of our students once they take the plunge and decide to pursue an apprenticeship with them. The opportunities have gotten better as well, the old saying about the changing of the guard has fueled a renewed interest in bringing up apprentices due to the elders entering their retirement phase. Just hope that this transition will occur before much of the knowledge that these folks possess is no longer accessible to those taking their places. Are you by chance associated with any of the work on the World Trade Center Memorial construction? If not, I would imagine that you have friends or acquaintances who are. Anyhow, enjoying your comments and contributions here, I enjoy the heck out of this sort of thread. Best regards, Allanaevald
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