6010 vs 7018 rods

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:43:48 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for 6010 vs 7018 rods

So, I'm finally in class to learn how to weld. Yay me! We started out with 6010 rods and I was finally getting half-way decent at that (and by half-way, you know I mean I still suck lol) when the instructor said we were gonna try the 7018 rods. I don't seem to be able to use the 7018s worth a crap. I'm sure someone has some amazing advice that will help me understand why I'm the exception to the rule in my class... most of them are loving the 7018s and find them "way easier to use". Ack!Ok... commence to tellin' me amazing secrets!
Reply:The biggest reason I've found people tend to like 6010 vs 7018 is because they can't see the puddle as well with 7018. 6010 has a very light slag coating vs the heavier coating 7018 has. You need to learn how to read the puddle and distinguish what is slag and what is molten metal. Some people have no issues with this and others struggle with "seeing" this.An idea what you are actually having difficulties with would help. Picts are usually the best way to let us see what you are doing wrong. Post up picts with info on settings, amps, rod size and type, material thickness position etc. The more info we have the better our responses can be.I frequently find newer students often tend towards doing what I tend to call "timing" patterns when they 1st start out. All they do is move at X speed or go back and forth at a certain rate, and this gives them a certain result. The problem is that they really haven't learned how to weld. All they have done is learned to move at a given speed and pattern. As soon as they have to start adjusting their weld patterns to deal with gaps, poor fit up, or vertical or overhead welds, they crash and burn because those "tricks" won't work any more and they can't under stand why.Learn to "read" the puddle and understand what is happening as you change things like arc length, rod angle and travel speed and you will do much better. You will need to learn to ignore the shiny light and concentrate on what is happening at the tip of the rod and the puddle around it. There's no easy way to do this except thru repetition and practice. At some point you will have an "Ah ha!" moment and everything will suddenly click and make sense.Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:6010 (and similar) rods run with a -slight- arc gap.  So you can sort of watch the arc and the puddle and the slag all at once (but you are supposed to be watching the puddle).  And as mentioned, the slag coating is lighter than say from a 7018.7018 is a 'drag' rod.  Do not whip it or long-arc it or anything else.  Light up the arc and then get the rod tip lightly touching/dragging on the workpiece as you make the weld bead.  Which means the heavier slag coating kind of obscures your view of things.  Until you learn to kind of look past the puddle of molten slag on top of the puddle of molten steel and concentrate on what the steel is doing.Pics usually help us to help you.  Practice and ask the instructor for help.  Have him/her watch you as you do (or attempt) the weld and they should hopefully be knowledgable enough to point out what you are doing right and what you are doing not-right.  And to communicate that info to you so that you can get better or at least understand what you need to do in order to get better.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Hello EarthyGirl, the other gentlemen have given you some great suggestions for improving and figuring out a lot of the things that folks will find as a challenge when they start out in welding. I might add a few other thoughts. The choice for E6010 and E7018 electrodes in many welding programs follows a line of logic where understanding and being able to use these two electrode types provides the welder with a lot of basic skills that can be applied to a host of other different types and designations of electrodes. Along with reading a puddle a person needs to be able to "see" the parts of the puddle and surrounding area to differentiate between slag and actual molten or solidified weld metal. One thing that can help with this task is selecting a welding shade that provides definition of the viewed welding puddle area without having too much residual glare if it's too light, or doesn't provide for enough peripheral view if the shade selection is too dark. If you are afforded the opportunity, try using a "few" different shade numbers and see if you feel that you are better able to make out variour parts of the puddle and surrounding area. If you are working with amperages in the range of 70 to probably around 135 amps you will probably be relatively safe in using a range of 9 to 11. Although, I would tend to shy away from the 9 as that is getting down to the lower protection range. In my own experiences when I am assessing the weld puddle area I will generally see the slag as a lighter frothy type of a deposit, and depending on the tint of your filter plate it may appear orangish, greenish, bluish, or whatever color that is the major tint of the filter. The "molten weld pudde" may appear to be "shiney, glassy", or something along those lines with the color, again, matching the hue of the filter. Just a couple more thoughts for your consideration. PICTURES would be good though so that others can provide you with additional comments/suggestions. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Replyon't concentrate on the arc so much. If you are going left to right look to the left of the arc to see the puddle. Also keep your rod at no more than 10 degrees to the right if you are going right and keep the arc length short. Remember the puddle has to catch up with the arc so if you go to fast the puddle wont be able to catch up. 6010 is a deep penetrating rod and 7018 is a drag rod and also a low hydrogen rod which means they have to be kept in a rod oven. Practice lots and have fun. Good luck.
Reply:I'm totally gonna read this several more times before my next class. Y'all are AWESOME! This is why I enjoy getting advice from different people... they all have a different way of looking at things. I can glue the advice all together to get what I need to be better at what I'm trying to do.I haven't taken any pics yet, but I will. Promise.Thank you thank you thank you to those of you who replied! Stellar advice that I will def put into play when I go back to class.
Reply:All great advice.  My one addition is this (and your mileage may vary), but I would get a good "glass" #10 "green" filter lens.  Nothing fancy.  The weld puddle will be a definite orange.  Get used to seeing that.  It will take you on to the next levels that you will certainly encounter.  I have done all the fancy gold this and that, but what is best for my old eyes is the old standard green lens.  I use #10 for stick and mig, and a #12 for tig.  I never get ant surprises or new colors appearing that way.Just my 2-cents..........you'll get the hang of it and do fine.
Reply:Im no xpert with either rod but what I have learned about 7018 is, its hard to restart. There is some tricks from old threads on how to avoid hard restarts but, I have a piece of wood, yes wood that I tap the rod on to bust the xcessive flux on the rod to make restarts easier. The other thing with 7018 is, I try to shove the rod into the work while dragging. This doesnt seem to work with 6010 but Im starting to like 6010 because they dont require an oven.
Reply:6010 is a "fast fil freeze" rod.  Touted as general purpose, it's qualities are what make it (and it's cousins 7010, etc) the most popular rod for stick welding open root stringer (bead) passes on piping jobs.  Back in the day, some companies used 6010 (Fleetweld 5P) to weld out pipe from root pass to cap.  It was a fast way to get the job done with quality welds (if executed properly).  The guys that could "weave" a beautiful cover pass (cap) always got the highest respect.  But back then, as in today, that root pass is what it's all about.A good welder needs to be proficient at both 6010 & 7018.  Once that is mastered, you can weld with just about any other stick electrode.  Again, my 2-cents.
Reply:I have a self-darkening helmet. I didn't pay that much attention, but I think it appeared green. I will pay more attention after your remarks, cwood. That is for sure! I'm a bit of a perfectionist (it's the Virgo in me!), so I want to do a really great job and I was extremely frustrated at the end of that last class. Boo. I know I'm not gonna be professional grade at this point, but I want to be as quickly as possible. lol
Reply:Oh... and one other thing was that I kept sticking the 7018 rods. I'm not sure why. My instructor says I tend to be a lil heavy handed (tho that's not exactly how she put it). Maybe that's the reason? It was the #1 cause of my frustration. I wasn't sticking the 6010s at all... well... at least not that second day.Last edited by EarthyGirl; 09-20-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Reply:If you haven't done it already, go look at some youtube videos of welding.  Everyone has an opinion of those, but it's a good place to start looking around.  You decide if you want to listen to the commentary on each one...some are good, some horrible.  Main point is, look at the puddles on the videos.  Most, but not all, will have decent examples of puddles that you can get a feeling for.  They may or may not specify the rod type, etc., which is valuable.  Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc. have videos that will show puddles.This one is pretty lengthy, but covers several rods and techniques.  Some here may disagree, but I learned a lot watching it, being a novice.
Reply:Optics on some AD hoods aren't as good as others. You get what you pay for. One nice thing with most AD today is that you can change the darkness easily. Try different shades and see what seems to work best for you. Cwood3 likes 12 for tig, that's way too dark for me personally. I use a 9-10 for tig, but will use an 11-12 for stick... Everyone's eyes are a bit different.Don't get frustrated. If you feel that way, it's time to go take a break. Go grab some water, go grind and prep coupons, go chat with someone else taking a break, what ever. Some nights will be worse than others, and some nights you'll feel like there are no problems at all. It's part of learning. I do tend to see that people who start to get frustrated and "push" to keep going, tend to just get worse. Those that walk away for a bit, tend to come back and do better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I didn't get the most expensive hood, but I didn't get the cheapest either. Mine has two settings, but I'm using the lighter one (which is 10, I think). Hadn't even thought about changing it yet.I did take some breaks, but apparently not long enough. It's cool tho, because I'm totally going to try again and am sure I will do better... especially after reading the great advice I've been given. One thing is for sure... I do not act like I know something when I don't, so I'm absolutely open to advice from people who do know what they are doing!   A helpful hint (or five!) will assist me on my way to better bead. I'll be sure to keep y'all updated.
Reply:As DSW so expertly stated...take some breaks, it works.  Only these experienced welders can jump in and go non-stop.  They've got it down pat.I'm just learning also, and yesterday it seemed every coupon I welded on was forked up.  I got so frustrated, I thought "I ain't ever gonna get this down".  Stopped for lunch, took a while, reflected back on why my welds were so crappy, figured it out and went back out to start over.  Concentrated on technique, paid attention to breathing, watched my bead, slowed down, etc. and low and behold, nearly every weld came out pretty much like it should have.  Got my confidence back!
Reply:That's awesome, Short. I do think I need to slow down. It may even be a major factor.
Reply:Originally Posted by EarthyGirlThat's awesome, Short. I do think I need to slow down. It may even be a major factor.
Reply:Good to know. I'll def work on that!  Thanks for the input.
Reply:I'd say the number one fault I see with most new students is that the move too fast. On average, a standard stick rod will give you between 6-8" of weld depending on the joint. If you are getting 12-14" of weld from a rod, then you are going too fast and need to slow down your travel speed. If you are only getting 2-3" of weld, you are an exception to the rule, and need to speed up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'd say the number one fault I see with most new students is that the move too fast. On average, a standard stick rod will give you between 6-8" of weld depending on the joint. If you are getting 12-14" of weld from a rod, then you are going too fast and need to slow down your travel speed. If you are only getting 2-3" of weld, you are an exception to the rule, and need to speed up.
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Reply:Whats helping me is that if I am having trouble with a weld, I ask my Instructor if he would do the weld while I watch. I see how he is moving the stick, angle he is using and travel speed. I try to emulate that and it seems to work for me. I am more of a visual learner anyways.Another thing I am doing for overhead, I do not used my AD Shield. I have a cheap plastic passive shield with a #11 Gold lens in it. I can burn up the passive and no big deal. The Gold lens though, really lets me see the puddle and arc a lot better it seems in that position too.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'd say the number one fault I see with most new students is that the move too fast. On average, a standard stick rod will give you between 6-8" of weld depending on the joint. If you are getting 12-14" of weld from a rod, then you are going too fast and need to slow down your travel speed. If you are only getting 2-3" of weld, you are an exception to the rule, and need to speed up.
Reply:Just found a link explaining how to upload pics, so I'll revisit it when I have pics to post.