Depression era cast iron sink repair

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:35:35 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for Depression era cast iron sink repair

Hello everyone,I have this old depression era cast iron sink that came to me for repair.  As you can see by the pictures it is missing a chunk from the drain tube.  It appears that it was broken out by the drain plug open and close mechanism as seen by the brass fork sticking beyond where the wall of the drain would have been.  I will have to remove it before proceeding.I was thinking of using some ni rod to weld in a steel pipe cut to fit the diameter and then weld on top of that a piece of flat stock cut to fit the flat part of the drain where the drain pipe goes through and gets tightened down by the large nut.  The sink has just been sand blasted.What do you think?  Is this old cast iron weldable in this manner?The idea occurred to me to braze it also but my fear is that it might induce stress cracks.  The ni rod can be run much cooler in little 1/2" or 1" beads plus peening to counter contraction.Any thoughts?Thanks,Tony Attached Images
Reply:Is there a ceramic coating on the other side?
Reply:Well If you do it I for one want to see picsMiller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Hmmm...I'd personally go with brazing it up and then grinding and machining it...but honestly, I'd really do whatever castweld says --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Hello Gentlemen,thanks for the comments.  The sink if finished in porcelain.  The owner will have it refinished once it's done.  I think it may be possible to braze this piece as I think the part that will be put back in will have relatively free room to expand and contract without pressing against a gusset or some other stress point in the casting.Because it is porcelained I can't just heat it up to braze it as it will tear up the porcelain as it will chip off due to the heat.  The question is if I can braze it and don't try and preheat it.  I did some brazing on an engine block just recently where the engine mounting holes had broken off and I had to rebuild them.  I was able to braze them (without heating the whole block) and did not cause any fractures in the cast iron engine block because the type of break was at an extremity, like a finger to a hand.  The extremity was free to expand and contract.Do you think the same is possible here?  I attached that repair.The reason for thinking ni rod is because it can be welded "cold" and not run the risk of cracking it.  I still lean towards ni rod. What do you think?Tony Attached ImagesLast edited by therrera; 07-20-2011 at 07:34 PM.Reason: to correct spelling and grammar
Reply:I have done alot of Allison transmission cases and oil pans and a bunch of ductile iron wheels using a wire called super 44 i think special alloys makes it i havent seen the box lately and havent used it in over a year , its expensive but i like it cause u can litterally spot it in or run a quick bead and back out , everything i welded was preheated and post heated then wrapped in blankets, some times u hear the pop sometimes u dont , On the last set of wheels i did ( they were about 4' in diameter and installed on the axle already) i preheated just the outside edge where the rim lip was being welded to the wheel and ran it as quick as i could then wrapped as fast as i could , as the rim was being turned the guy on the otherside was post heating until i was finished welding, end result, they are still in service. Anyway long story short u could get the mig wire in a 2lb spool last i knew if your interested in that route. On the allison transmission cases they had a 4 bolt pattern on the top of them for lifting them in and out of the truck and it always seemed they would break them somehow, i would use a piece of cold rolled steel that was the correct diameter grind it to fit and weld it in them line up and retap the hole, worked like a charm everytimeI forgot how to change this.
Reply:Hi LawsonWeldingLLC,I posted the engine block pictures as an example of a brazing job on cast iron that didn't crack because of the location of the repair.  It was an extremity and not going to hit anything expanding or shrinking (coming or going).My problem is this sink.  It is made from a 1930 cast iron.  Is it weldable?  Can I or should I braze it?  I can't preheat it or I will damage the finish on the sink.I appreciate your feedback and I'll make a note of the wire you suggest for future cast iron jobs.  Do you have any ideas on this one?Thanks,Tony
Reply:I would think that cast iron from that era would be top quality and would stick weld really good. I would stick weld it with UTP's 85FN rod. Weld an inch and peen, weld an inch and peen. No pre heat and no post heat. United Technologies has more cast iron rods than any body and the rods all weld very nice. Get their little booklet and read it, it's good.
Reply:Some old cast iron welds good others not, you just never know untill you try.My vote is ni rod.PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad back
Reply:Thats why i posted about the wire, u get in and get out quick it works really well, its worth a shot if ya want to try it sometime less heat input the less chance of cracking, you could try some stainless and see what happens just a thought.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by castweldSome old cast iron welds good others not, you just never know untill you try.My vote is ni rod.Peter
Reply:Oh boy...  Nickel is softer than brass... You're far enough away from the ceramic to gas weld cast but furnace anneal is out...I'm wondering if a butter pass with ni-rod and build up with mild steel won't work??? Your well away from getting the ceramic liquid.Have you ever tried that Peter?I've never been there...Good LuckMatt
Reply:Hello all,I personally like the idea of brazing it up.  My question though is, can I do it without being able to pre-heat it or post heat it?  I tend to think that the expansion and contraction will not lead to cracks.  What do others think?Would you braze this thing up under these circumstances?  Again, I see several steps to this repair.First: find a schedule 40 pipe close to the diameter of the drain housing, looks around 2 1/2" (I haven't yet measured it).  Cut and fit, cut and fit it to match the contour of the break in the round part of the casting.Second: Once I have a decent fit, "tin" the edges of the cast and the steel pipe and fit it into place, tack it then braze it up, filling any gaps.Third: cut the half circle still missing from the top from some flat stock to match the diameter of the casting and "tin" the top parts, fit and braze them out.Fourth: Use a small grinder to shape and blend in the parts followed up with a flapper disk for a final finish and to take the edges off all corners and sharp spots.The brazing approach would be much quicker than the ni rod.What do you think?  Will this part stand the heat of the brazing without cracking?Thanks,Tony
Reply:Since it is not going to be visible and there is little to no water pressure to worry about, maybe repair it with fiberglass (or something) rather than risk heating it?Tim
Reply:This may be of some helphttp://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...cast-iron.htmlV
Reply:Hi Vinnie,thanks for the link.  It was useful in that the presenter offered various angles of approach for welding cast iron.  Bottom line though was that he said it's hit and miss and to preheat where possible.I was hoping that someone had performed this kind of repair on some old cast iron or might offer an opinion regarding whether or not this piece was crack prone.  My instinct is that its not because the part is free to expand and contract without interference from other parts of the casting.While I am inclined to braze it, I think I will go with the ni rod simply because I can control the temperature better.  Matt_Maguire's idea of buttering the parts to be welded sound's good to me.  I remember reading years ago (early 1970's) in old Eutectic manuals (they specialize in maintenance welding equipment and consumables) about using that procedure when joining dissimilar metals.Instead of buildup though I will splice a piece of schedule 40 steel pipe onto it.  I'll lay down a small bead of ni rod on the broken walls of the castingas a "buttering" layer then use some 7018 3/32 rod to join the steel to it.  I will still run small beads and pean.I am going to be starting on it today and will report how it goes.Thanks,TonyLast edited by therrera; 07-21-2011 at 11:51 AM.Reason: to add an additional comment
Reply:I would consider braizing with bronze rod using the TIG torch (in AC mode) for less heat input than with an oxy-fuel torch and than with Nickel rod.  The bronze is very crack resistant and seems could be braized / braize-welded to the cast, with less heat input than with Nickel rod.It would also be readily machinable, and not cost a small fortune as nickel rod would, to build up a large area if necessary.  Strength of the bronze should be adequate for your application.I would consider putting a water soaked rag beyond the area that needs to be welded, to pull heat away before it can transfer to the portions of the work with the ceramic coating.  (I would worry if the cast iron expands and contract from heat too rapidly, it could crack the porcelain coating.  So keeping the heat from ever getting there in the first place seems prudent.)  There are also "heat fence" clay like products which you can smear on surfaces and do similar things as a wet rag.If you are going to build up a large area, I would do it a little bit at a time, and allow plenty of time in between passes for work to cool (and periodically replenish water soaked rags)  Best of luckDepending how large the piece needs to be, it might be better plan to fabricate a mating piece and then weld or braize it to the rest of the sink.Attached picture shows aluminum A2 bronze, TIG braize/welded over a veed-out crack in a gray cast iron automotive intake manifold.  Good fusion, and no cracking problems were noted. Attached Images
Reply:Hello Jakeru,thanks for your thoughts on this project.   I have never TIG welded with bronze before.  Do I just start a puddle and lay in the brass rod?  Or is there a rod specifically made for TIG welding?  I am about to head out to the welding supply to restock my supplies and will be able to pick up some rod if it requires a different type than used for torch brazing.I like the wet rags approach.  I will not be building up a large area, instead I will be making a piece out of so pipe to match the diameter and shaping it to fit the break in the sink's casting.However, as with the nickel rod, won't I have to run small beads and peen?Please let me know what you think.Thanks,Tony
Reply:UTP/Bohler is the best company making caste iron filler metals on the market today. Bill Tat used to be a major authority on caste welding among many other processes. They would probably recommend an initial layer with ni 55 and grind it halfway down. In order to prevent cracks you need to join the two areas slowly or you will have a large heat effected zone. If you would like to erase doubts on approach to your project give him a call and save some time. (509) 994-0915
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireOh boy...  Nickel is softer than brass... You're far enough away from the ceramic to gas weld cast but furnace anneal is out...I'm wondering if a butter pass with ni-rod and build up with mild steel won't work??? Your well away from getting the ceramic liquid.Have you ever tried that Peter?I've never been there...Good LuckMatt
Reply:You want a bronze rod that will not have any components that may boil or vaporize from the TIG torch heat.  No tin / zinc, etc (more common is brass than in bronze.)  I used "Aluminum Bronze A2" in the TIG braize on grey cast iron test pictured above, it worked well.You don't need much EP% cleaning action in the AC arc settings, just a little bit helps keep the surface of the puddle clean.As Peter said, no need to melt the base material.  Might help to go over it with the AC arc at light amperage to clean it before welding though, I am not really sure, probably wouldn't hurt.  But focus the heat on your bronze puddle, and let it melt and flow out over the (cast iron) parent metals.  When heat it right it should "wet out" over the cast nicely.It might be worth practicing TIG brazing on a piece of scrap if this is your first time trying it.  The technique of of melting the filler rod over solid parent metal is kind of opposite of TIG welding best practices (of only depositing the filler rod into an already existing puddle.)Ni rod would work as well.  My only thought on suggesting the Bronze instead is, thinking it would melt at a lower temperature it might be possible to weld without transfering as much heat into the parent metals as the nickel rod would.  But if the bronze conducted heat more rapidly than nickel, it might be a moot point or give the opposite effect (Bronze may end up transferring more heat transferred into the work than Nickel.)  I guess you could go either way.You could certainly TIG weld with nickel rod too.  You can get the NI-ROD bare, designed for use with TIG welding, or if you can more easily scare up some NI-ROD stick welding electrode, you can scrape the flux off (with something like a utility knife) and TIG with it just fine.On the same cast iron intake manifold I picture of the TIG bronze braize test in my previous post, I did some other tests on it as well, including one joint using NI-55 rod.  It was a stick electrode I scraped the flux off and TIG welded.  Cracking behavior was excellent (there was no problems with cracking.)  I honestly can't remember if I used AC or DC TIG arc, (and it may not matter) but the NI-ROD on cast did work well.Did the same test welding vee'd groove in same cast iron piece with stanless filler rod, which was a disaster (in cracking problems) by contrast.  And of course mild steel, was a disaster (cracking problems) as well.The nickel alloy welds cast iron well, because it has a low thermal coefficient of expansion so minimizes thermal contraction stresses on the cast iron (when welded cold.)  The bronze welds cast well, because of the combination of good ductility and low yield strength, allows it to "yield", relieving the thermal contraction stresses as the hot weld bead cools. Attached Images
Reply:Hello all,well, I definitely feel like a ping pong ball here.  It seems that it is about a 50-50 toss up between brazing it and using ni rod.  The third option is to TIG it with bronze or ni rod.  Tomorrow I will go out and practice a few beads with both to see how they flow.Regardless of which I choose, the method will be to run small beads and let it cool.  I will peen the ni rod but not the brass, is that about right?I will cut out the part and fit it to be welded to the casting, grind and bevel the casting so I have shiny metal to work with and achieve good penetration.  I have never Tig welded ni rod or brass so it will be a new experience for me.  I'll take some pictures of the project as it progresses.  I feel that going the electric welding route will allow me to control heat and is a safer route so that trumps the torch for this one.I mentioned to the welding supply guy about the project and that I needed to brass rod, which he referred to as silicone bronze.  I asked him if this was the same stuff that we use for brazing, he said yes it was and gave me a couple of pieces of 3 foot rods to "test".Does that sound right?  This is the same stuff we use for gas brazing?Thanks for the tips.TonyPS:
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHello all,well, I definitely feel like a ping pong ball here.  It seems that it is about a 50-50 toss up between brazing it and using ni rod.  The third option is to TIG it with bronze or ni rod.  Tomorrow I will go out and practice a few beads with both to see how they flow.Regardless of which I choose, the method will be to run small beads and let it cool.  I will peen the ni rod but not the brass, is that about right?I will cut out the part and fit it to be welded to the casting, grind and bevel the casting so I have shiny metal to work with and achieve good penetration.  I have never Tig welded ni rod or brass so it will be a new experience for me.  I'll take some pictures of the project as it progresses.  I feel that going the electric welding route will allow me to control heat and is a safer route so that trumps the torch for this one.I mentioned to the welding supply guy about the project and that I needed to brass rod, which he referred to as silicone bronze.  I asked him if this was the same stuff that we use for brazing, he said yes it was and gave me a couple of pieces of 3 foot rods to "test".Does that sound right?  This is the same stuff we use for gas brazing?Thanks for the tips.TonyPS:
Reply:Hello Dave,thanks for the clarification.  I'll find out what rod I got tomorrow morning.  This is a paying job.  All jobs that come to me are.  Some are trades.  I just arranged to have a client build a web site for me in exchange for welding on his jeep.  Trades enable us to "buy" things when we are cash short.I quoted the owner of the sink $100 for the project.  This was based on two to three hours, the time I figured it would take me to cut and fit the missing pieces and weld them out.  My thinking at the time was to use a torch and braze it like I did those engine mount holes I posted pictures of a few postings ago.  Using that route this was enough time to accomplish this task.Now with the choice to TIG weld it in short beads, I will most likely exceed that time and will have to eat it as I already gave my price.  However being a first time project, it is training as well so in that sense I am not losing nor do I feel bad putting more time into it.The upside to this is that this may open another market for my service as the shop that is helping my client with refinishing the sink is an antique restoration shop that basically told her this was an impossible fix.My client told me if I can pull this off it will lead to more work and I think so too.  What I usually do is run craigslist ads for my service using pictures of projects undertaken by me such as modifying trailer or repairing a cracked frame on bicycles or trucks, repairing aluminum trannies or engine blocks, etc.I will take pictures of this project as it progresses and make another craigslist ad out of it promoting repair of antique metal items.  Here is a link to one of my ads.http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bik/2481268158.htmlThat's why this forum is so important for us. It gives us the opportunity to pick each others collective brains and help us overcome areas where we are inexperienced or lacking knowledge.I really appreciate this site and the contribution it's members make to it.Thanks,TonyLast edited by therrera; 07-22-2011 at 02:38 AM.Reason: to add some more info
Reply:Hi Dave,I called the welding supply shop that gave me the sample rods and said they are silicone bronze.  He didn't know if it was a TIG welding rod or not but based on your comments this is the correct rod to use for the repair on this cast iron sink.Right?Thanks,TonyOriginally Posted by therreraHi Dave,I called the welding supply shop that gave me the sample rods and said they are silicone bronze.  He didn't know if it was a TIG welding rod or not but based on your comments this is the correct rod to use for the repair on this cast iron sink.Right?Thanks,Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonYes, silicon bronze is ONE of your choices!If you use this--do not try to puddle the CI--fire off on the rod, let it wet in....ummm...thinking... for seal tight welding on CI--SI Bronze can haveproblems-porosity, toe not wetting in good enoughOn CI prep--grind or carbide burr for bevels on the CI edges to be weldedregardless of the method that's used.One thing that really helps---on CI--after bevel prepping, is totake TIG AC--low amp setting 5-10, just barely let the torch fire off to make a weakdancing arc. Play the arc over the bevel prepped areas---you're looking forcleaning action-ONLY. You don not want to see red heat. Littte bits of sh*t, will keep blowing off, keep moving torch around, not dwelling in any one area,then go back to it. Can assist with ss brush as well.       This can do an impressive job of cleaning and de-gassing the CI surfaces,with minimum heat input-no oxidation. With decent CI--this cleaning may create a honeycombed appearing surface--looking silver to chrome. That's bare-naked, CI that's normally never seen.I've actually gotten crack bonding on really good CI--with out adding filler, just to see what would happen--filler was added.   [Yes--this is a method, darn few have ever tried or heard of. Anyhow, it's the best, low heat input method of prep I've found prior to silicon bronze, steel or nickel filler welding. CI welding with filler is ALWAYS a 'buttering' type of weld,one's attempting to get some adhesive bonding to the CI substrate.        I'm curious if Peter  (Castweld) has ever played with the above. ]
Reply:Hi all,sorry I haven't reported back yet.  I got hit with work and had to put the sink project on the back burner until tomorrow.  I'll keep in mind what castweld said about the puddle and it's charactaristics before proceeding with it.  If it is a clean puddle, then I can proceed as suggested.  If its dirty, I may go with the ni rod stick.Thanks,Tony
Reply:Hello all,I finally got to working on the sink for about 1/2 hour this afternoon and will finish it tomorrow afternoon after I get back from some service calls.I ground the area around the break and put a slight bevel into it.  It is all shiny metal right now.  I ran the TIG arc over the whole break / bevel and sure enough I got a dull gray, almost fine sandblast look to the metal.  This is the cleaning action that you referred to earlier.It did not pop nor release any black soot looking stuff with sight exception to a few tiny spots.  Attached are some pictures and you'll notice that when I cranked up the TIG torch it began to puddle a nice shiny spot, several of them.  I didn't continue to see if it would bead up, but I could see that it appears that it would have if I cranked up the heat more.According to the last few posts, this indicates that the cast iron is "clean" and of good quality.  Am I right on this?My next step is to cut out of some pipe the piece that will be welding into place.  I'll silicone bronze it to the sink casting.  Once done I will then cut the flat piece on the top to match the drain hole and silicone bronze that into place too.I ran some test beads with the bronze TIG rod using the technique described in a posting before and it worked just fine.  I heated the area on some 1/8" mild steel plate and put the bronze rod into the arc, dropping a bead and then melted, smoothed it into place.  Then, I got the leading edge of the bead and made a puddle that I fed rod into and made a bead just like if I were brazing.  It worked fine so I think this project will go smoothly.  I had my machine set to 55 amps at full pedal and see that I need some more heat do spread the bronze out more, but it was a good test I think.  We'll see how it  goes on the cast iron.Also, you'll notice that the sink has a rusty patina to it?  Last night it rained strong here in Phoenix and some spray got under my patio roof and onto the sink, leaving a rusty finish.  How can I get it clean again without having to pass a wire brush to it?  Will "Navy Jelly" do it?Thanks,Tony Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHello all,I finally got to working on the sink for about 1/2 hour this afternoon and will finish it tomorrow afternoon after I get back from some service calls.I ground the area around the break and put a slight bevel into it.  It is all shiny metal right now.  I ran the TIG arc over the whole break / bevel and sure enough I got a dull gray, almost fine sandblast look to the metal.  This is the cleaning action that you referred to earlier.It did not pop nor release any black soot looking stuff with sight exception to a few tiny spots.  Attached are some pictures and you'll notice that when I cranked up the TIG torch it began to puddle a nice shiny spot, several of them.  I didn't continue to see if it would bead up, but I could see that it appears that it would have if I cranked up the heat more.According to the last few posts, this indicates that the cast iron is "clean" and of good quality.  Am I right on this?My next step is to cut out of some pipe the piece that will be welding into place.  I'll silicone bronze it to the sink casting.  Once done I will then cut the flat piece on the top to match the drain hole and silicone bronze that into place too.I ran some test beads with the bronze TIG rod using the technique described in a posting before and it worked just fine.  I heated the area on some 1/8" mild steel plate and put the bronze rod into the arc, dropping a bead and then melted, smoothed it into place.  Then, I got the leading edge of the bead and made a puddle that I fed rod into and made a bead just like if I were brazing.  It worked fine so I think this project will go smoothly.  I had my machine set to 55 amps at full pedal and see that I need some more heat do spread the bronze out more, but it was a good test I think.  We'll see how it  goes on the cast iron.Also, you'll notice that the sink has a rusty patina to it?  Last night it rained strong here in Phoenix and some spray got under my patio roof and onto the sink, leaving a rusty finish.  How can I get it clean again without having to pass a wire brush to it?  Will "Navy Jelly" do it?Thanks,Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonAccording to the last few posts, this indicates that the cast iron is "clean" and of good quality.  Am I right on this?.....yes[I'll probably get flamed into the alternate universe for this post!]
Reply:Hello all,Well I advanced a little more today.  After preparing the broken out area for welding I cut a cardboard template of the patch to be welded and transferred it to a 3" steel pipe.  I cut out the patch and checked it for fit up.  After about three or four trims to get it somewhat close to the actual broken area I prepared it for welding too.  I ground around the weld zone both inside and outside to shiny metal and put a slight bevel on the patch.Attached are a few shots of it.  There are gaps in a few areas, but I can live with them and will fill them up with the bronze.I am thinking of "tinning" the edges of both the patch and the broken cast iron.  My logic is that this way I have bronze in place on both parts and it should be relatively easy to join them by fusing to the tinned areas. Any thoughts on this?  I will start again tomorrow with the welding using the technique laid out by Dave.  I have NEVER squirted water or mist on a welded area to cool it down.  I have however dunked parts in water leaving the area to be welded out of the water as a way to control heat.Once I have the patch welded in place, I will cut it to within 1/8" of the flat part of the casting where the drain comes out of.  I will cut a piece out of 1/8" plate to match the missing area and cut the radius it needs to match the diameter of the casting and drain opening.  There is a crack on this piece and I will bronze it shut.  That's the plan!I like the approach, we'll see how it goes.Thanks,Tony Attached Images
Reply:Hi all,well, here's the finished product.  Took me twice the time I thought it would take as I underestimated the time involved in making the missing parts and fitting them just right.  Also I didn't allow for murphy's law.  Just as I had finished sealing up the side wall, I heard the dreaded "crack" and I saw a hairline crack running through the an edge of the weld on the right vertical side and extending slightly into the casting.My heart sank but I got right to fixing it.  The cooling system worked so good that I got over confident and started running longer beads or lingering longer when I had fusion problems.  I immediately went back to how I started in the beginning of just running about five or so seconds of weld puddle and then stopping in a disciplined manner.  No matter what, I would stop after 5 or 6 seconds and start cooling off immediately after breaking the arc as Dave instructed.  I also used wet towels wrapped around the area I was working.I didn't spray on the weld itself but the casting around it and into the heat zone.  By welding such short beads I didn't get the casting real hot and it cooled down relatively quickly.  After the water had stopped sizzling and just let off slight steam I wet the entire area I was welding, bead and all.  Then I blew it dry, touched it to make sure it was just warm to the hand and started over again usually at another part of the casting.  This way I jumped around closing the joint slowly but surely.Attached are pictures of the progression of the final stages of the repair.  I made a template for the top piece out of light cardboard and transferred it to a 1/4" plate.  I cut it with a torch and ground it down to final size.I used a MIG to tack and weld it into place using a set of magnetic holders to keep it on the same plane as the existing casting.  This way the drain pipe should mount and line up perfectly and seal tight.I finished using the silicone bronze to seal up the top piece and joining to the the casting.  I also sealed another crack that was already present.  Then I ground it all flush to blend in the weld metal with the casting all over.Finally I used a rotary file (carbide burr) to cut the hole to size as it required final fitting after flame cutting it.  I used a 2 1/8" hole saw as my guide as that is the size of the drain pipe opening.  Came out a little rough, but workable.I want to thank all of you for your help and especially Dave for sharing his technique and I can see how it will radically change the way I approach cast iron repairs.  I would think this approach will work regardless of filler metal used.  It would work with stick and tig processes, no?I took a lot of pictures of the process because I though it would be of use for other welders who find themselves with projects like this one and are not quite sure how to go about it.  This was one approach and it seemed to have worked well.I'll post more pictures in a few minutes as there is a five picture limit.Thanks,Tony Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHi all,well, here's the finished product.  Took me twice the time I thought it would take as I underestimated the time involved in making the missing parts and fitting them just right.  Also I didn't allow for murphy's law.  Just as I had finished sealing up the side wall, I heard the dreaded "crack" and I saw a hairline crack running through the an edge of the weld on the right vertical side and extending slightly into the casting.My heart sank but I got right to fixing it.  The cooling system worked so good that I got over confident and started running longer beads or lingering longer when I had fusion problems.  I immediately went back to how I started in the beginning of just running about five or so seconds of weld puddle and then stopping in a disciplined manner.  No matter what, I would stop after 5 or 6 seconds and start cooling off immediately after breaking the arc as Dave instructed.  I also used wet towels wrapped around the area I was working.I didn't spray on the weld itself but the casting around it and into the heat zone.  By welding such short beads I didn't get the casting real hot and it cooled down relatively quickly.  After the water had stopped sizzling and just let off slight steam I wet the entire area I was welding, bead and all.  Then I blew it dry, touched it to make sure it was just warm to the hand and started over again usually at another part of the casting.  This way I jumped around closing the joint slowly but surely.Attached are pictures of the progression of the final stages of the repair.  I made a template for the top piece out of light cardboard and transferred it to a 1/4" plate.  I cut it with a torch and ground it down to final size.I used a MIG to tack and weld it into place using a set of magnetic holders to keep it on the same plane as the existing casting.  This way the drain pipe should mount and line up perfectly and seal tight.I finished using the silicone bronze to seal up the top piece and joining to the the casting.  I also sealed another crack that was already present.  Then I ground it all flush to blend in the weld metal with the casting all over.Finally I used a rotary file (carbide burr) to cut the hole to size as it required final fitting after flame cutting it.  I used a 2 1/8" hole saw as my guide as that is the size of the drain pipe opening.  Came out a little rough, but workable.I want to thank all of you for your help and especially Dave for sharing his technique and I can see how it will radically change the way I approach cast iron repairs.  I would think this approach will work regardless of filler metal used.  It would work with stick and tig processes, no?I took a lot of pictures of the process because I though it would be of use for other welders who find themselves with projects like this one and are not quite sure how to go about it.  This was one approach and it seemed to have worked well.I'll post more pictures in a few minutes as there is a five picture limit.Thanks,Tony
Reply:Here are a few more pictures of the progression of this repair.  They show :1-the cutting of the template from cardboard.2-the piece cut from plate, fitted in place with a slight bevel on the pipe.3-the welded out piece.I ground all the welds flush and smoothed them out with a flapper disc for appearances and finish.I'll post the last pictures next.Tony Attached Images
Reply:Hi all,Here are the last shots. The show various angles of the repaired casting.Thanks all for you help.  I'm going to post one last set of shots.  The before and after pictures.I can see that the repair did not quite provide enough sealing area for the rubber drain gasket.  I am going to suggest that they use silicone along with the rubber gasket.  Also there may be an unseen crack or other cracks that were not detected as the object of my work was getting the drain to work.I proposed to my client that they use silicone liberally if they spot leaks here and there.  They need to fill the sink with water after temporarily sealing the drain off to see if they detect any leaks that need to be sealed prior to putting the sink into use.Tony Attached Images
Reply:Hi again,This will be my last post with pictures on this thread as I feel I was able to pull off the repair successfully with the help and suggestions that was provided here.  I am eternally grateful as your input helped me broaden my scope and ability so that I feel more confident when presented with jobs involving cast iron that I have not done before.  As a result I am a better welder.  Shown attached are the before and after pictures. I followed the technique for using the silicone bronze as instructed by castweld.  It worked just as he described.  I ran into the problem of the toe not fusing well as Dave wrote about and that's when I lingered longer with the torch to try and get fusion which led to the crack I wrote about.  I used the wet towel as suggested by jakeru and will use them from now on when I do cast iron jobs.  I used Matt's suggestion to "butter" (or tin) the steel patch with the silicone bronze.  It made it much easier to tack and weld it out.  I put a lot of tacks all around the patch as suggested by Dave.  This helped me when I started to weld it out as the tacks gave me points of fusion that I could extend as I closed the joint little by little.Thanks again to all,Tony Attached ImagesLast edited by therrera; 07-28-2011 at 02:53 AM.Reason: To add more information.
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHi all,I proposed to my client that they use silicone liberally if they spot leaks here and there.  They need to fill the sink with water after temporarily sealing the drain off to see if they detect any leaks that need to be sealed prior to putting the sink into use.Tony
Reply:Nice job!
Replyooks like it worked for you. No pics of inside? How did the ceramic coating inside do?PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad back
Reply:Thanks for posting the follow-up Tony.  Glad to hear you got the job completed.
Reply:Hi castweld,I am going to clean it up today before turning it over to the client.  I will take some pictures of the ceramic side of things.  I need to figure out if there is someway I can clean the rust patina that developed when the rain hit the sink and turned it all orange/brown inside.Besides trying to get in every nook with a wire wheel or brush, is there some chemical I can spray on and hose off that would restore it to how it looked when it was brought to me just sandblasted?Any help is appreciated,Thanks,Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHello all,well, I definitely feel like a ping pong ball here.  It seems that it is about a 50-50 toss up between brazing it and using ni rod.  The third option is to TIG it with bronze or ni rod.  Tomorrow I will go out and practice a few beads with both to see how they flow.
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHi castweld,I am going to clean it up today before turning it over to the client.  I will take some pictures of the ceramic side of things.  I need to figure out if there is someway I can clean the rust patina that developed when the rain hit the sink and turned it all orange/brown inside.Besides trying to get in every nook with a wire wheel or brush, is there some chemical I can spray on and hose off that would restore it to how it looked when it was brought to me just sandblasted?Any help is appreciated,Thanks,Tony
Reply:That turned out looking really good. I hate to put it this way but better than I expected. There really is some talented guys here and now we all have this reservoir to refer to if we ever need it. Thanks.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:i have a question? does it hold water?  tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Nice fix Therrera, thanks for posting it.I wonder if just the  chunk of the sink displaying casting date would be worth more than the whole thing as a functional sink? Or is that a pattern date?Anyway, Halloween, and ‘29  that's when things really started down the drain.I just think it'd be a great display somewhere... but I don't know where, so it's just as well that you fixed it to use as a sink.Nice jobGood Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHi castweld,I am going to clean it up today before turning it over to the client.  I will take some pictures of the ceramic side of things.  I need to figure out if there is someway I can clean the rust patina that developed when the rain hit the sink and turned it all orange/brown inside.Besides trying to get in every nook with a wire wheel or brush, is there some chemical I can spray on and hose off that would restore it to how it looked when it was brought to me just sandblasted?Any help is appreciated,Thanks,Tony
Reply:Hello all,Thanks for the compliments.  I don't know if it will hold water.  I repaired a few cracks that were outside the break which I was asked to fix as a matter of principle.  There may be some hairline cracks present that will leak, but I didn't see any.  That's why I 'm suggesting that the owner of the sink coat it with some type of sealant.Matter of fact I just ordered some stuff from an infomercial that is a rubber paint in a spray can.  It is being promoted to spray on where ever there is a leak of some type be it a roof, gutter, etc. (hey, a sink).  I ordered it to stop some drips in our roof from around one of the  air conditioner vent from the roof.Attached are the last shots for those who are interested in seeing the porcelain side of the sink.  It's not a pretty sink, yet.  They plan on having it resurfaced so it should look like new soon enough.Oh, I almost forgot.  I just got some navy jelly and brushed it on and hosed it off.  It took off the rust patina sure enough, but then dried to a white powdery look so instead of rust I now had a baking soda coat to it.  Out of desperation I sprayed some wd40 on it and wiped it down.  That brought back its black finish.  Whew!!!Thanks again,Tony Attached ImagesLast edited by therrera; 07-30-2011 at 10:39 PM.Reason: To add some more detail.