Another Newb Welding Critique

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:33:59 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for Another Newb Welding Critique

Today I had no pressing things to do, so I decided to burn through some wire practicing. I took some pics and would like some feedback on my welds. I have the 170 amp HF 220 mig, and all welds were done with .035 FC wire......I don't have a gas setup yet, but am working on it. First pic is some 18ga steel I had lying around, so I cut it up and stitch welded it back together. It was uneventful and I was on the lowest setting min/1 with a wire speed of 2. 1 I left alone and 1 I ground to see how it looked.I also had some 1/4" plate pieces, so I beveled the edge and went to town at the highest setting......max/2 with a wire speed of 10. On a note the settings graphic says that 1/4" can only be welded with .035 wire and gas. The first pic was done with 2 passes. The bottom weld was done about 30% faster than the top one. The second pic was done 3 different ways, at the same speed. The bottom (which is horrible) was done bottom/up, the top was done top/down, and the center was done side to side. After is cooled a bit, I took a 4lb single jack and beat the crap out of it, with the weld up. I couldn't find any cracking on the welds and the plate bent....so I guess its strong enough? So what do you think? Any pointers on welding bottom/up? I seem to REALLY have an issue with it. I have the same issue on 3/16" stuff. I also welded up some scrap 3/16" stuff, but it doesn't look much different than the 1/4" stuff.Last edited by desertscout; 04-13-2013 at 08:43 PM.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:I wrote this a while back for someone else doing stick, but everything written applies just as well with FC. Originally Posted by DSWBiggest issue I've seen with people trying to learn vertical is that they haven't yet learned how to "read" and "see" the puddle. They get by doing horizontal and flat running what I refer to as "timing" patterns. This won't work for vertical.There are all sorts of movements you can use to do vertical. V's, upside down V's, U's both up and down, Z's and so on. The key to all of them is that you pause on the sides long enough to fill and quickly cross the center. Remember you will cross the center two times, once going from left to right, and once come back to your start point. That means if you run a standard "timing" pattern like many try to do, you spend 2x as long in the center as you do on the sides and have a humped weld. If you read the puddle and adjust your motions based on what you see, then you end up spending as much time in the center as you do on the sides. ( you go across the center 2x as fast as most new guys normally would) At this point motions don't really matter, because you are constantly making adjustments based on what you see, and a good welder can make any of those shapes work.I usually suggest students use a Z shape or a sideways U, where they run a short horizontal across left to right, pause until the puddle catches up to the arc, then move up 1/2 a rod diameter and move back across to the starting point and pause again until the arc catches up to the puddle, move up and start the whole thing all over again.... All of this is done very fast. I demonstrate this using a very exaggerated "weave" running horizontal about 2-3" on flat plate then pausing and moving up before going back across. Otherwise most students simply can't pick up the subtle changes that happen so fast when I'm welding. I tell the students to really concentrate on what happens every time I hit the end of the horizontal pass so they can pick up what I'm looking at and "seeing".The key with stick and FC is telling whats metal and what is slag when looking at the puddle. Most times guys get "scared" of the dripping slag and either turn down the amps or go to fast. As far as settings, again if you can read the puddle, this becomes somewhat of a non issue. A good welder adjusts as needed based on what he sees, speeding up if things are a bit hot or tightening up the arc, and slowing down or lengthening the arc if things are a bit cold. If anything I usually run the same amps as flat/horizontal or maybe just a bit hotter. I find too many guys are scared of the dripping slag and want to run cold when it's usually easier to run a bit hotter. Same goes with overhead. I usually find 125-135 works well with 1/8" 7018 on the machines I run. Note different brands of rods and different machines will all weld different....
Reply:I'd say you need more practice doing verticals. What DSW said is right, I personally prefer too little Z's all the way up.
Reply:10-4 on the practice, I'm going to grind the plates apart and do nothing but climbing welds on the 1/4" and the 3/16" scrap that I have.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:I cut everything up again to practice more......but the winds are honkin today So no welding for me.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:Yesterday I setup everything to weld vertical and uphill.....I'm getting much better using the tips that DSW posted. I've also noticed that my penetration is much deeper, now that I'm "watching the puddle". I don't have it down yet, mostly due to not being comfortable with the vertical/uphill technique that I'm trying to do. I'm sure it just a matter of more time, but I will continue practicing using DSW's tips.Thanks for the info.......HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:Sounds good. Glad I could help. Post up some picts with settings when you get a chance..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSounds good. Glad I could help. Post up some picts with settings when you get a chance.
Reply:Originally Posted by desertscout I don't have it down yet, mostly due to not being comfortable with the vertical/uphill technique that I'm trying to do. I'm sure it just a matter of more time, but I will continue practicing using DSW's tips.Thanks for the info.......
Reply:Originally Posted by Vydunasvertical down is much, much easier than vertical up.
Reply:Why doesn't anybody mention that DOWNHILL GASLESS FLUXCORE is a bad idea?????Self shielding fluxcore produces SLAG!!!!  Running downhill increases risk of slag entrapment, and your penetration SUCKS.Looking at the pics, all I see is downhill welds, get away from those downhill welds.030 self shielding fluxcore uphill 14ga tubing.  This stuff can make some beautiful uphill welds, and you know you have a sound weld.Keep the wire at the face of the puddle as you drag the puddle upwards.  Simple side to side motion while watching the puddle below.  Fluxcore freezes rapidly, so don't look at the cooling line where the slag meets the puddle, focus ONLY on the molten puddle.  If you're using a auto darkening helmet.........adjust your shade from #10 to #11, it makes it easier to see the puddle, believe me.  Fluxcore makes a very bright annoying arc, and has a tendancy to drown out the view of the puddle."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Thanks farmersamm.......I'm working on my technique. I AM going to master the vertical/uphill weld eventually!  LOLHF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:Same if you keep turning out nice wire welds like that you may have to retire the old stick welderMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:No stick for me...........learned on one, but don't own one anymore.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:I'm in your same boat. I cannot get the up hill yet, I am more focused on getting the basics down though. Like horizontal side to side. I have tried a few uphill passes with flux core and it completely discouraged me and my welding 'abilities', so to speak. Ever since I got ahold of a gas bottle and some solid mild steel wire, my welds have become much better looking. I can do the uphill almost presentable now. Still need lots of work and more patience. I think when I figure ou tmy rythm on horizontal, I will venture into the tricky stuff more frequently.
Reply:Originally Posted by JWJohnson. I think when I figure ou tmy rythm on horizontal, I will venture into the tricky stuff more frequently.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIt's not about rhythm. It's about learning to see and read the puddle. I've done quite a few writeups on vertical, mostly for mig and stick, but FC is almost exactly like stick. Running a "rhythm" is doing what I like to refer to as timing patterns. It's almost impossible to do vertical that way.
Reply:This really makes me feel bad, give advice, and crap up some of my own welds (see other post in "rojects")Anyhow, the welds in THIS post are allright, and should be what you shoot for.  The forensics are the most important thing in the whole deal.  Look to my other disaster to see why  Again, I feel really bad about the whole thing.I saw the unstable puddle, continued on because I "remembered" the setting I used to use, and wound up with some crappy welds.  I ignored my own advice.........look at the puddle..........I saw the bubbles, instability, etc. and kept on truckin'.I'll try to clean it up in the morning, and give reasons why"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Mods are done on the HF 170. This is 3/16" strap, there recommendations are Max/2 with a wire speed of 7. I welded it at Min/2 with a wire speed of  6, capacitor on.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT
Reply:Hard to tell in that pict, but the bead looks a bit cold from what I can see of the toes of the weld. Travel speed seems a bit inconsistent as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHard to tell in that pict, but the bead looks a bit cold from what I can see of the toes of the weld. Travel speed seems a bit inconsistent as well.
Reply:I'm looking at the toes of the weld and how tall the bead looks. Post up a larger, better lighted pict and I can point out some things better.  Also a 2nd pict at an angle so I can see the edge for reference and see how even the bead is on both pieces would also help..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Will do tomorrow, that piece is no longer in that state......part of a project for my weed drag. I will do some more for posting tomorrow.HF 180 amp/240 volt Mig (cap mod)1987 Harley FLHTP (project)1990 F350 XLT Lariat S/C dually1990 S&S 11SC Cabover Camper2011 Ford Ranger S/C XLT