Trying to help a guy on another site to strengthen the beam on his log splitter. I came across this detail to add round stock under the top flange. I've never seen this done to a beam before, but have seen it on Bar Joist. Anybody ever have to do this to a beam? If so do you remember how much more strength it was suppose to add to the beam?I've added flatbar to the flanges, and both side of the web. Even boxed the flanges in with stiffeners and plate out at the toes of the flanges. Just wondering if anybody has seen some slick ways to add strength to beams before? Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I'd just get the right beam to begin with but to me the doubler plate looks like the best deal for the application.I wouldn't even weld them. Just bolt them on.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:What does it look like now? Got a pic?
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeI'd just get the right beam to begin with
Reply:I would use the doubler plates but move them out away from the web as far as can be done and weld to top and bottom flanges.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerWhat does it look like now? Got a pic?
Reply:What you show in the shaded pict is the way I was taught in my structures class. A wide flange acts like a truss. the more material at the top and bottom of a truss, the more strength it will have, given the same height.One option you don't show would be to cut the beam on a saw tooth pattern and off set the "teeth". This would shorten the over all length, but increase your height. Since the taller the beam, the greater the resistance to bending given the same weight, that would also do what you want.The doubler plate would add minimal strength. Yes you add some material at the upper and lower portions of the beam, but the vast majority of the steel added would be in the center or "neutral portion" and add minimal advantage vs the shaded pict below.Last pict usually shows what is done when they are afraid the flange might deflect due to a heavy point load. That stiffener helps brace the upper flange to the lower one and resist the upper one from bending down ( or up if the load is from below.)Later if I get time I'll try and locate my AISC Manual of Steel Construction or my structures book and see if I can locate some of the formulas behind what I posted..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Structurally it's great knowledge. Thanks. Now tell the dude with the log splitter to cut off the bracketry and go buy a damn beam ! Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:To 'strengthen' a beam in bending, get more material farther away from the neutral axis.Quick way to do that on an existing beam is to add the flange 'doublers'. More material, yes, but only slightly farther away from the neutral axis.More complicated way to do this is to slice the web along the length and then make the beam 'taller'. This gets the flanges farther away from the neutral axis.The web doublers are used mostly for shear loading. It will slightly increase the bending strength of the beam, but not as 'efficiently' as getting the material in the flanges farther away from the neutral axis.Quickest and 'simplest' way the make the beam stiffer/stronger is to get a bigger beam (taller, bigger distance from flange to flange) and with thicker flanges. The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:This Ryerson Data Book has some really good charts for safe loads. All the numbers are in Kips, for some reason that confuses people, doesn't anybody work in Kips anymore? Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply
CEP - access http://www.steelconstruction.info/Stiffeners. Solid primer of options for strengthening moment resistant connections on beams/girders using traverse & longitudinal stiffeners. Tons of images from bridge work. +1 on MoonRise's and DSW's comments."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Thanks for the link ManoKai! I never seen the longitudinal stiffeners before. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Weld a 'C' channel to the bottom flange - legs to the flange.John
Reply
efinitely "Doubler plate," if available, 5/32" 7024, welded in the flat position (obviously). If you can't flip the I-beam upside down for the 7024, use 7018 with 5/32". BAM, you're done. That I-beam isn't going anywhere for that log splitter. That's just what I would do and be done with it. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:i would stay far away from welding re-bar. that said if a wider plate on top isn't feasible for some reason i would use 1 lgth of angle iron under each top flange on either side of the web after grinding a little off the heel so it fits snug to both web and flange. one leg of the angle needs to be wider so you can flat weld the beam to protruding angle leg.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHere you go. The picture with the two framing squares, he is just showing the horizontal part of the wedge is angled up, so the wood isn't in a bind forcing the beam down. Point of this thread is for me, and others to learn different ways to strengthen beams.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHere you go. The picture with the two framing squares, he is just showing the horizontal part of the wedge is angled up, so the wood isn't in a bind forcing the beam down. Point of this thread is for me, and others to learn different ways to strengthen beams.
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteI think I see the problem.The reason the upper beam flange is bending up near the wedge is the push block that the ram attaches to and slides along the outside of the upper beam flange (not shown in the picture) is being forced up by the upside down sharpened horizontal wedge, which is causing the outer edges of the flange to bend upwards near the end of the stroke. Sharpen your horiz. wedge so it forces the wood down slightly so the wood and push block keep the ram force low and parallel to the beam and you should eliminate the problem.
Reply:He he on your last statement cep. And i thought it was just me! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteI think I see the problem.The reason the upper beam flange is bending up near the wedge is the push block that the ram attaches to and slides along the outside of the upper beam flange (not shown in the picture) is being forced up by the upside down sharpened horizontal wedge, which is causing the outer edges of the flange to bend upwards near the end of the stroke. Sharpen your horiz. wedge so it forces the wood down slightly so the wood and push block keep the ram force low and parallel to the beam and you should eliminate the problem.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeHe he on your last statement cep. And i thought it was just me!
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPMike I can't tell you how many times my mom slapped me in the back of the head for touching things in the store.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEP..., generally I can't see something unless I can touch it. Go figure!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWProbably didn't make you all that popular with some women. I'm surprised the women didn't slap you in the face.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWProbably didn't make you all that popular with some women. I'm surprised the women didn't slap you in the face.DSW is exactly right there. I dont remember the exact numbers from statics classes years ago, but I think it is something like 90% of the load is carried in the 10% of material furthest from neutral axis. Thus the entire idea of an I-beam design. Additional plating top and bottom not only adds material further from the neutral axis, but it also in effect increases the height of the beam by the thickness of the plate added. Welding is slightly more effective than bolting.The "doubler plate" example is to keep the web from collapsing under certain loads and has very little relative impact on bending. For the comments about putting the doubler plate out at the edge of the flanges, that helps with twisting or torque loads. Thus boxing car frames to get rid of torque induced flex. However, again, has relatively little bang for your buck on bending.The rebar solution has some merit in that it adds material further away from the neutral axis. It also allows you to add some strength without changing the outside of the beam. However, it is best suited to only putting it on the side of the beam in tension at any point. The side of the beam in compression will see significantly less benefit as the rebar is more prone to simply flex because of its shape and force vectors. So, your overall ability to strengthen a beam with rebar is limited, but a log splitter that is having issues with main beam bending deflection is a decent application.If the flanges flexing up in the last picture of the splitter is what you are trying to fix, then the last solution pic is what you want. Tie the the flanges together and to the web and you will significantly reduce the cupping flex in the flanges.
