I am needing to weld thin gauge automotive sheet metal (18 gauge is my guess...maybe 20). Trying to stick weld it would frustrate me to no end. I did some testing and I would never be happy with it. I want to do this job right. I have considered flux core since I could probably get a cheap HF one (if people want to try and help convince me that would be a good way to go).I have ZERO experience with anything but stick.I have a Miller Thunderbolt XL. It does AC/DC and seems to work great on thick metal. I used it to convert my engine mounts and was very happy with the results. It is 230v.I have been mulling the idea of maybe getting a HF MIG welder used, as they don't hold their value and can be had for cheap. The issue is finding if any of them would be worth it. I'd love to hear if any MIG models they have are worth getting over a bigger name.I am leaning more towards getting a Lincoln 140 since I just want it for thin stuff and can stick thicker metal. If I should get a 180 instead, and not mess with 140, then by all means please let me know to avoid that. I have also seen LE 31s...the idea of multiprocess and being able to TIG sounds cool but is it worth it in a low power machine?I don't know enough about Miller models...they all seem high priced. Since a bottle will cost me around $200 it seems, I was trying to stay under $500 but want to make the smartest decision and will pay more if I have to, to do so.Are there good used models I need to be looking for that can be great value like my thunderbolt that people seem to want rid of due to their size and weight? Hobart seems like they have a couple decent options also.I'm just looking for wisdom to make the best decision possible. I appreciate any insights that folks with experience can lend me. I really wish I could stick weld so well that I could just use my current guy but i'll blow through it in places and be so mad it's not worth it. And it will be ugly...so ugly. It would be nice if I knew someone with a MIG welder I could rent for a day. It's on a car that doesn't run yet and I need to do the welding before I can even get seats in so moving it to the welder isn't really an option.Thanks.Last edited by jtap; 11-17-2020 at 05:14 PM.
Reply:Where do you live?The Titanium line at HF. I have used a Titanium 140 and it works just fine.140 ( 120v) $379.00170 (120v/240v) $479.00You'll probably hear " ya get what ya pay for..." but sometimes we gotta stick to our budgets and the Titanium line is a good option that fits in the budget.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Where do you live?The Titanium line at HF. I have used a Titanium 140 and it works just fine.140 ( 120v) $379.00170 (120v/240v) $479.00You'll probably hear " ya get what ya pay for..." but sometimes we gotta stick to our budgets and the Titanium line is a good option that fits in the budget.
Reply:seems like CL is down. I couldn't search Mobile to see if anything good was available.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1seems like CL is down. I couldn't search Mobile to see if anything good was available.
Reply:I would recommend the Lincoln 140. since you have stick for heavy stuff. Or look into a used 180 or 175 lincoln, Buddy picked one up pretty reasonable and it has the extra amps to weld thicker since sometimes it's nice to mig vs stick. Could probably get a used 180 size machine for same as a new 140. And the 180 has quite a bit more juice being on 230v
Reply:Originally Posted by nick121I would recommend the Lincoln 140. since you have stick for heavy stuff. Or look into a used 180 or 175 lincoln, Buddy picked one up pretty reasonable and it has the extra amps to weld thicker since sometimes it's nice to mig vs stick. Could probably get a used 180 size machine for same as a new 140. And the 180 has quite a bit more juice being on 230v
Reply:I'm probably a bad one to be responding since I'm looking at Cdn. prices, but that sounds like a reasonable approach to me. Worst he can do is say no, and if it hasn't been selling, he's probably more motivated. I've got the 180 and I think you'd be much happier with 240 over 120 volt.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:You can adapt your AC/DC miller for tig as an option. Can not use a foot pedal. Since you need a tank, I'd get a price from local suppliers on machine and tank package. The newer HF migs have good reviews.I would definitely consider their extended warranty. Since you have 220 volt, definitely get a 220 volt machine. If you don't need that many amps, it will provide better duty cycle. As for the Miller migs, look for one with " Auto Set ". Those are the later models. The older 211 is extremely popular but difficult to find. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1You can adapt your AC/DC miller for tig as an option. Can not use a foot pedal. Since you need a tank, I'd get a price from local suppliers on machine and tank package. The newer HF migs have good reviews.I would definitely consider their extended warranty. Since you have 220 volt, definitely get a 220 volt machine. If you don't need that many amps, it will provide better duty cycle. As for the Miller migs, look for one with " Auto Set ". Those are the later models. The older 211 is extremely popular but difficult to find. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by jtapThere is a Lincoln 180 HD Weld-pak on craigslist an hour away and even though it was 25 days old the person responded and says they still have it. They are asking $550. Would it be reasonable to offer $500? I don't want to be insulting.
Reply:The HF Titanium 170 actually has an advantage over the Lincoln 180.better Duty Cycle and more control. Infinite Voltage selection as well as an inductance control.180HD: 130 amps 30% Duty Cycle, Tapped Voltage selectionHF170: 160amps 25% Duty Cycle, Infinite Voltage, plus an Inductance control know.Most situations the Tapped Voltage isnt a bad thing but when welding thin sheet metal the ability to dial in it even more could come in handy.If yer buying a used Lincoln- no warranty so they are both even on warranty since HF basic warranty is only 90 days from purchase, unless you purchase the extended warranty.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Lincoln Electric 180 Welder - $550 (Milton)This one?looks like it is missing the drive shaft for the Spool of wire.
Reply:that $550 one without a drive shaft seems sketchy- how is it missing? Looks like it is in a storage facility so no way to test it.I saw the $600 one as well with a cart. Would be a better risk as it looks like it was used and you would be able to test it.But don't forget about the cost of a bottle of shielding gas which eats up the money Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:You should connect with Mozella. He is in south Alabama and needs a TIG machine for only one project. Then getting out of welding. Y’all could buy a multiprocess machine, let him finish his project and you have a new better welder. Split the costs up front. Just saying.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1that $550 one without a drive shaft seems sketchy- how is it missing? Looks like it is in a storage facility so no way to test it.I saw the $600 one as well with a cart. Would be a better risk as it looks like it was used and you would be able to test it.But don't forget about the cost of a bottle of shielding gas which eats up the money
Reply:I use HF 170 MIG welder Works great and low costI have own name brands but now I am retired so just need a small welder and 170 works great https://www.harborfreight.com/170-am...der-68885.htmlDave Originally Posted by jtapI am needing to weld thin gauge automotive sheet metal (18 gauge is my guess...maybe 20). Trying to stick weld it would frustrate me to no end. I did some testing and I would never be happy with it. I want to do this job right. I have considered flux core since I could probably get a cheap HF one (if people want to try and help convince me that would be a good way to go).I have ZERO experience with anything but stick.I have a Miller Thunderbolt XL. It does AC/DC and seems to work great on thick metal. I used it to convert my engine mounts and was very happy with the results. It is 230v.I have been mulling the idea of maybe getting a HF MIG welder used, as they don't hold their value and can be had for cheap. The issue is finding if any of them would be worth it. I'd love to hear if any MIG models they have are worth getting over a bigger name.I am leaning more towards getting a Lincoln 140 since I just want it for thin stuff and can stick thicker metal. If I should get a 180 instead, and not mess with 140, then by all means please let me know to avoid that. I have also seen LE 31s...the idea of multiprocess and being able to TIG sounds cool but is it worth it in a low power machine?I don't know enough about Miller models...they all seem high priced. Since a bottle will cost me around $200 it seems, I was trying to stay under $500 but want to make the smartest decision and will pay more if I have to, to do so.Are there good used models I need to be looking for that can be great value like my thunderbolt that people seem to want rid of due to their size and weight? Hobart seems like they have a couple decent options also.I'm just looking for wisdom to make the best decision possible. I appreciate any insights that folks with experience can lend me. I really wish I could stick weld so well that I could just use my current guy but i'll blow through it in places and be so mad it's not worth it. And it will be ugly...so ugly. It would be nice if I knew someone with a MIG welder I could rent for a day. It's on a car that doesn't run yet and I need to do the welding before I can even get seats in so moving it to the welder isn't really an option.Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by smithdoorI use HF 170 MIG welder Works great and low costI have own name brands but now I am retired so just need a small welder and 170 works great https://www.harborfreight.com/170-am...der-68885.htmlDave
Reply:Your welcomeDave Originally Posted by jtapThanks for the first hand report Dave!
Reply:In all my searching I did stumble across what could be a really good deal. Up in north alabama...a lincoln flextec 450 for $500. I don't know what a mig spool for it would cost but if it was close I would probably snatch this up.https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2688213271848/
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1that $550 one without a drive shaft seems sketchy- how is it missing? Looks like it is in a storage facility so no way to test it.I saw the $600 one as well with a cart. Would be a better risk as it looks like it was used and you would be able to test it.But don't forget about the cost of a bottle of shielding gas which eats up the money
Reply:TIG on thin ga sheet is going to require a higher skill set then MIG. The TIG unit will also need to have a real good low end with a gentle arc start.Even with MIG with this thin of material you want a unit with a real good low. I just don't mean a machine that can go down to 25 amps. The arc characteristics are going to matter too. An arc with a little too much aggressiveness is going to make gap situations more difficult. Unless you find a good used one, it'll be out of your price, but for thin ga sheet I definitely feel Lincoln's PowerMIG 180C is a really good choice. Never ran a 140C to know if it's as good as the 180C.
Reply:Titanium 170 is showing 30 amp low end. Can't find anything on low end voltage though. With that inductance control, with a 30 amp low end, if the proper low end voltage is available the unit looks to have the potential to be a good thin ga sheet unit. Of course the skill set of the person operating the unit is going to play a major role in this potential.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanTitanium 170 is showing 30 amp low end. Can't find anything on low end voltage though. With that inductance control, with a 30 amp low end, if the proper low end voltage is available the unit looks to have the potential to be a good thin ga sheet unit. Of course the skill set of the person operating the unit is going to play a major role in this potential.
Reply:The Lincoln C models do have Continuous voltage selection.Power Mig 140c Power Mig 180C these units are only sold through welding Supply shops.The Retail Models are Tapped Voltage: EasyMig180, Weldpak 180, MigPak180 are sold at the box stores. All of them are the same machine with a different name as each retail store stocks their own model.They both look the same with a slight difference on the voltage control label. C models have the red band around the dial. Attached ImagesEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridgeOriginally Posted by Broccoli1Where do you live?The Titanium line at HF. I have used a Titanium 140 and it works just fine.140 ( 120v) $379.00170 (120v/240v) $479.00You'll probably hear " ya get what ya pay for..." but sometimes we gotta stick to our budgets and the Titanium line is a good option that fits in the budget.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonLooks like the warranty period is 90 days for any HF welder now. So if satisfied withing 30 days better opt for the extended warranty of 1 or two years. And then flog it hard. Only way I would buy one now. Originally the Vulcan line had a 1 year satisfaction, no questions asked refund policy. That is gone. The Vulcan line still looks the more durable than the Titanium line but the price is nice.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1The Lincoln C models do have Continuous voltage selection.Power Mig 140c Power Mig 180C these units are only sold through welding Supply shops.The Retail Models are Tapped Voltage: EasyMig180, Weldpak 180, MigPak180 are sold at the box stores. All of them are the same machine with a different name as each retail store stocks their own model.They both look the same with a slight difference on the voltage control label. C models have the red band around the dial.
Reply:I'm not sure on which model has a lower voltage.Contact
[email protected] have always been helpful when I contacted them in the past.about a day to respond M-FEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I'm not sure on which model has a lower voltage.Contact
[email protected] have always been helpful when I contacted them in the past.about a day to respond M-F
Reply:Originally Posted by jtapWe'll see what they say.Does anyone have any opinions on the Eastwood welders?
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYour responsibility to immediately find shipping damage and file claim. If warranty requires shipping, cost is on you both ways. Deal breaker for me. One reason I recommend Harbor Freight as there is a store nearly everywhere.
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esign wise the Millermatic 135 is a flawed unit. If you make an adjustment to the voltage it changes thr rate that the wire is being fed too. Typically requiring a wire speed dial setting change too. I used to own a Millermatic 175 that was designed the same way. It was the most frustrating machine I have ever operated.The Handler 190 has a good low end for thin ga sheet metal. The PowerMIG 180C that I suggested earlier is better yet though. Tapped units can have a real good low end. My Ironman 230 and Migmaster 250 have really good low ends. Let's say they have very good low ends. They're beyond your budget though.Last edited by Dan; 11-19-2020 at 07:39 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDesign wise the Millermatic 135 is a flawed unit. If you make an adjustment to the voltage it changes thr rate that the wire is being fed too. Typically requiring a wire speed dial setting change too. I used to own a Millermatic 175 that was designed the same way. It was the most frustrating machine I have ever operated.The Handler 190 has a good low end for thin ga sheet metal. The PowerMIG 180C that I suggested earlier is better yet though. Tapped units can have a real good low end. My Ironman 230 and Migmaster 250 have really good low ends. Let's say they have very good low ends. They're beyond your budget though.
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incoln got back to me. The lowest tapped voltage is 1 volt lower than the continuous.A=18v (the other voltages if you care are B=20, C=22, D=24, E=32)Continuous goes from 19-30.Tapped having a lower low and higher high seems a bit better to me. I think that would make the wire feeder the main benefit to the 180 C model for me.The Hobart 190 manual shows the tapped settings to be around 17v at the lowest position and 30 at the max. The Hobart 210 goes from 18v to 33v.Is this site reputable? This seems like a decent deal.https://www.weldingandcutting.com/Lincoln-Electric-Refurbished-SP-180T-Welder-p/U2689-2.htmLast edited by jtap; 11-20-2020 at 11:16 AM.
Reply:if you are only going to weld thin sheet metal, less tham 3/16" then i would op for a 120 volt welder. did bodywork for 35 years and most of the auto dealers and trade schools used lincoln sp125 or 135 welders. large shops with up tp 15 bodymen. you wouldn't use an 8 lb sledge hammer to metal finish a small dent, why use a large welder to weld thin sheet metal. we had 1 large welder for special owner projects and older cars with frames, but even then they usually got welded with the 120 volt.the insurance companies welding certification was done with 120 volt welders on 1/8" coupons. thats all the thickest metals, unibodies, have for frames. get one with variable controls so you can dial it in to its sweet spot.lincoln 125spmonkey wards 250 ac/dcmiller 211 w/spool gunahp 200 sx tiglotos ltp5000dof course duramax diesel
Reply:Originally Posted by duramax-robif you are only going to weld thin sheet metal, less tham 3/16" then i would op for a 120 volt welder. did bodywork for 35 years and most of the auto dealers and trade schools used lincoln sp125 or 135 welders. large shops with up tp 15 bodymen. you wouldn't use an 8 lb sledge hammer to metal finish a small dent, why use a large welder to weld thin sheet metal. we had 1 large welder for special owner projects and older cars with frames, but even then they usually got welded with the 120 volt.the insurance companies welding certification was done with 120 volt welders on 1/8" coupons. thats all the thickest metals, unibodies, have for frames. get one with variable controls so you can dial it in to its sweet spot.
Reply:Jtap,The voltage values you are mentioning above are useless because they are an open circuit voltage value. Meaning no load. Once an arc is struck there is a drop in these voltages. How much of a drop depends on the level of slope designed into the unit.Based on those OCV values Lincoln provided for their tapped units there is going to be a major hole in the output between taps D and E. Meaning tap E is going to be a significant jump upward in output power, so there is going to be a large amount of output power range missed when going from tap D to E.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanJtap,The voltage values you are mentioning above are useless because they are an open circuit voltage value. Meaning no load. Once an arc is struck there is a drop in these voltages. How much of a drop depends on the level of slope designed into the unit.Based on those OCV values Lincoln provided for their tapped units there is going to be a major hole in the output between taps D and E. Meaning tap E is going to be a significant jump upward in output power, so there is going to be a large amount of output power range missed when going from tap D to E.
Reply:A 240 volt input unit is going to be capable of output just as good of a low end as a 120 volt unit.Even though I have tapped units with really good low ends, based on my experience with running several different tapped and variable voltage units, if I am looking for a unit for thin ga sheet, I'm going with the variable voltage unit. I can dial the 180C down to this very gentle soft low end arc. Can't get this same level gentleness in the arc out of a Handler 190. The big reason being the voltage doesn't go as low on the 190. Not all variable voltage units are equal on the low end though. I couldn't get as good of a low end arc out of a Millermatic 180 as I could the 180C. I liked Lincoln's SP 175 Plus. Only problem for this thread though is the fact that I never tried the low end on one with an .023 solid wire and C25.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanA 240 volt input unit is going to be capable of output just as good of a low end as a 120 volt unit.Even though I have tapped units with really good low ends, based on my experience with running several different tapped and variable voltage units, if I am looking for a unit for thin ga sheet, I'm going with the variable voltage unit. I can dial the 180C down to this very gentle soft low end arc. Can't get this same level gentleness in the arc out of a Handler 190. The big reason being the voltage doesn't go as low on the 190. Not all variable voltage units are equal on the low end though. I couldn't get as good of a low end arc out of a Millermatic 180 as I could the 180C. I liked Lincoln's SP 175 Plus. Only problem for this thread though is the fact that I never tried the low end on one with an .023 solid wire and C25.
Reply:On the 180C the voltage dial can actually take the voltage down to low to where you can't produce a usable arc. If I am remembering correctly I got the amazingly soft low end arc out of the 180C with the voltage dial set around B.I've ran several tapped unit that have a good to very good low end. Understand though the power level a tap outputs is going to be influenced by your input voltage. Lets take a Handler 190 as an example. Lets say your input voltage is 238 Volts. Then lets say on tap 1 this input lets the 190 dial down to an output of 15.7 load volts and 28 amps. Then we take the 190 to my place where the input voltage is 242 volts. Now at my place we can only get tap 1 dialed in at around 16.2 load volts and 33 amps. Not a big difference but when were down this low on the thin sheet it is noticeable. Both will work on 22 ga. The lower output is just a little more for giving when you have a poor fit up situation.Input voltage is going to influence the voltage value a dial setting outputs on a unit like the 180C too. The difference though is that the variable dial allows you to make adjustments to compensate for this.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanOn the 180C the voltage dial can actually take the voltage down to low to where you can't produce a usable arc. If I am remembering correctly I got the amazingly soft low end arc out of the 180C with the voltage dial set around B.I've ran several tapped unit that have a good to very good low end. Understand though the power level a tap outputs is going to be influenced by your input voltage. Lets take a Handler 190 as an example. Lets say your input voltage is 238 Volts. Then lets say on tap 1 this input lets the 190 dial down to an output of 15.7 load volts and 28 amps. Then we take the 190 to my place where the input voltage is 242 volts. Now at my place we can only get tap 1 dialed in at around 16.2 load volts and 33 amps. Not a big difference but when were down this low on the thin sheet it is noticeable. Both will work on 22 ga. The lower output is just a little more for giving when you have a poor fit up situation.Input voltage is going to influence the voltage value a dial setting outputs on a unit like the 180C too. The difference though is that the variable dial allows you to make adjustments to compensate for this.
Reply:I need to get my hands on a HF Titanium and see how those things perform. Inverter 30-140amps Continuous Voltage control and Inductance hmmm$379.00 until 11/25Last edited by Broccoli1; 11-20-2020 at 06:10 PM.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I need to get my hands in a HF Titanium and see how those things perform. Inverter 30-140amps Continuous Voltage control and Inductance hmmm$379.00 until 11/25
Reply:In my experience with my Tweco Fabricator 181i and 211i the inductance control complicates things more, but if you're willing to play with it you can typically find some very good results. No experience with the Titanium units though. I'd spend the extra $100 for the 170 unit myself.
Reply:The inductance control does help some with the " stiffness" of the arc, but where it really helps is when using different gas , such as co2, to reduce spatter.
Reply:I do not need a MIG welder anymore.I do need gas and wire and skill...but not a welder. Went with the cheapest option, Lincoln 135 (well cheapest that was a name brand where I could get parts for it somewhat easily). Hopefully it will work for me and if not I don't have too much into it.I'm a bit confused by wire size and tips and welder setup and am trying to sort through that. The manual says .025 wire is the smallest...but I am seeing .023 wire and tips come up in searches and mentioned in threads for sheet metal welding. I was planning to just get a Lincoln SuperArc L-56 .025 2 lb spool.Last edited by jtap; 11-22-2020 at 10:22 AM.
Reply:.023 is the same as .025, just the way it's listed. Possibly the metric to imperial conversion. 23, 24, 25 whatever is more problematic to feed than .030 wire, just something to keep in mind
Reply:Originally Posted by jtapI do not need a MIG welder anymore.I do need gas and wire and skill...but not a welder. Went with the cheapest option, Lincoln 135 (well cheapest that was a name brand where I could get parts for it somewhat easily). Hopefully it will work for me and if not I don't have too much into it.I'm a bit confused by wire size and tips and welder setup and am trying to sort through that. The manual says .025 wire is the smallest...but I am seeing .023 wire and tips come up in searches and mentioned in threads for sheet metal welding. I was planning to just get a Lincoln SuperArc L-56 .025 2 lb spool.
