Hey all,What sort of things determine number of passes or maybe even a single pass with a weave etc. how do you choose?Here is a track rod bracket I made, just unsure of the main tabs to tube. Thats just a single pass. Tab is 4mm (nearly 3/16) tube wall thickness is 0.11 That was 120 amps 2.4mm (3/32) tungsten1.6mm (1/16) filler#8 with gas lensCheers Attached Images
Reply:look up images for throat dimensions and concavity and convexity. That one weld looks extremely concave. A concave weld easily and readily propagates a crack should there be a small stress riser that is overcome from the forces/stresses exerted on the part. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:It is not a perfect science. I would run 2 passes over the root.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:Originally Posted by Oscarlook up images for throat dimensions and concavity and convexity. That one weld looks extremely concave. A concave weld easily and readily propagates a crack should there be a small stress riser that is overcome from the forces/stresses exerted on the part.
Reply:So another question is, regarding my weld, would a single pass be fine if I had added more filler and or would a single pass with a little weave been a better option?
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100So another question is, regarding my weld, would a single pass be fine if I had added more filler and or would a single pass with a little weave been a better option?
Reply:Originally Posted by G-ManBartI'd like to see what the experts have to say on this. My non-expert guess is that I'd rather run a single pass where I'm focused on really making sure I get the penetration and then go over with a weave to fill things out.
Reply:Set it back up how I did it first time, that is with off cut of hollow bar (5/16 wall) and some flat bar off cuts in between the tabs, all to act as heat sinks and hopefully keep a little shape.Second pass with a little weave. 90 amps, 1/16 filler, 3/32 tungsten .What tungsten size do you guys prefer for welding stuff around the 1/8th thick? Would dropping down to 1/16th give me any advantages? Attached ImagesLast edited by husq2100; 10-02-2020 at 10:35 PM.
Reply:For that metal thickness 1 pass
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313For that metal thickness 1 pass
Reply:Nothing wrong with 3/32" tungsten and 1/16" filler rod there. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:140-180 amps probably. Lap joints takes less amps then the other welds with the thicker metal. Leg height should be 3/4 to the full height of the thickness of base metal to be considered structural and leg height no taller then the thinner piece of metal if there’s 2 different thickness metals being welded together
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313140-180 amps probably. Lap joints takes less amps then the other welds with the thicker metal. Leg height should be 3/4 to the full height of the thickness of base metal to be considered structural and leg height no taller then the thinner piece of metal if there’s 2 different thickness metals being welded together
Reply:Both are base metal
Reply:Here is the finished product. Attached Images
Reply
ooks good. I suspect you lack of remote amp controllers make it difficult to control wrapping edges and building up filler at stops?
Reply:Use ur filler metal as amptrol
Reply:Also, everyone that responded is jumping the gun. We don't know the exact base metal, filler, application , design loading, etc.... until that information is provided we're spinning our damn wheels.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderLooks good. I suspect you lack of remote amp controllers make it difficult to control wrapping edges and building up filler at stops?
Reply:Originally Posted by NathanDotyAlso, everyone that responded is jumping the gun. We don't know the exact base metal, filler, application , design loading, etc.... until that information is provided we're spinning our damn wheels.
Reply:I tried a test piece. 125 amps same filler etc. I didnt have the hollow bar inside (wouldnt fit as the proper pieces are turned clean inside.)Anyway, I tried to fill the puddle more so one pass was adequate. No good. Got too hot on the end and got porosity ( if thats what its called) on the inside. I guess my technique just isnt up to it.Sorry about the pic rotation. For some reason it does that when uploading from my phone. They arent taken like that... ?? Attached Images
Reply:I found my phone needs to a be used with top tilted to the right 90 degrees. You really never notice it until you upload to a forum.On my phone I can go to photo details and see the orientation. It will be posted at. I can also rotate the photo prior to uploading.
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100I think so, and more so this is not my trade/job.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderI found my phone needs to a be used with top tilted to the right 90 degrees. You really never notice it until you upload to a forum.On my phone I can go to photo details and see the orientation. It will be posted at. I can also rotate the photo prior to uploading.
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100I tried a test piece. 125 amps same filler etc. I didnt have the hollow bar inside (wouldnt fit as the proper pieces are turned clean inside.)Anyway, I tried to fill the puddle more so one pass was adequate. No good. Got too hot on the end and got porosity ( if thats what its called) on the inside. I guess my technique just isnt up to it.The welds look good but it would have been better to weld inwards from both ends so you don't leave the crater at the end. The crater is a potential site for a crack to develop. This can be important on critical welds. I'd consider steering components fairly critical.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveThe welds look good but it would have been better to weld inwards from both ends so you don't leave the crater at the end. The crater is a potential site for a crack to develop. This can be important on critical welds. I'd consider steering components fairly critical.
Reply:The second one (for the other side) came out a touch better. Well the weave did on tab, my fillets werent as good on this one .... one day Ill get all my good welds on one piece lol Attached Images
Reply:Regarding amp control and being able to drop or cool towards the end of a weld run. I have downslope, 0 - 15 seconds. Now as far as I can tell , let’s say I set it to 5 seconds, then I have to guess/know when I’m 5 seconds from the end of weld and let off the switch... seems like something that will take A LOT of practice??
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313140-180 amps probably. Lap joints takes less amps then the other welds with the thicker metal. Leg height should be 3/4 to the full height of the thickness of base metal to be considered structural and leg height no taller then the thinner piece of metal if theres 2 different thickness metals being welded together
Reply:Testing myself
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100Fair point. I do think a good welder could do it in one go in one direction though.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveOn something critical a good welder would know not to leave a crater at the end. It's kind of welding 101, eliminate as much as possible potential for cracks to propagate. Take it as info to remember for the next time instead of questioning it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Showdog75Where do you get this? You are one of the reasons I quit posting here because of the nonsense you post. Sad part is people probably listen to you. 140-180 amps are you serious? Please
Reply:140 is very doable. 180 probably a bit fast for the slow guys
Reply:How bout the Lap joint done at 160 and 180? .125 thick https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...t-Sorry-Jodie-)
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100Can you define crater? To me that is a concave hole , it’s lowest point is lower than the weld profile?? My pics may not be very clear, but on the finished product they are not. I would call it a “mound” for lack of better term. The “mound” is higher than the weld profile and even the one that has the tiny pin hole has the bottom of hole higher than weld profile. Saying a good welder could do it in one pass in one direction was not question your imput mate, actually agreeing with the crater part. I’ve seen plenty of high end motor sport TIG welding and they don’t end in a crater where they stop. They are simply (MUCH!) better than me.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveAnytime you stop a weld you have a crater. In motorsport welding it is usually tubing with a continuous weld all the way around. There is no end per say.
Reply:Weld in from both ends and make sure the final crater in the middle is fully filled.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder Dave .... “make sure the final crater in the middle is fully filled”.
Reply:Generally back stepping at the end is sufficient but on something critical, welding from each end inward is the best way to eliminate potential crater cracks.
Reply:Underfilled terminations leave a stress riser at the end of the weld that can crack prematurely or even crack when the puddle chills. Nothing wrong with returning to the crater and filling them some more later. Underfilled weld starts are just as much as a problem as underfilled terminations. Craters are by definition a shallow termination with possibly a divot in the center where the crater crack can develop. When starting a weld, get a uniform puddle and pack that start with filler for an adequate throat. 2 to 3 dips of your rod can pack it thick then move forward. Upon termination reduce your amps and again pack that end with filler as not to leave a underfill or crater. And upon lifting your hood you see it underfilled go back and fill it some more. Another thing, don't drip you filler into the puddle. Cram that rod in and plump up the bead for throat thickness and strength, them jam forward. As long as your bead spacing is not longer than 40% there should not be shallow spots between the beads to create stress risers. Cram and jam. Speed is your friend.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:It's very simple IMO If you can't get the required weld throat/profile with a single pass without compromising on other things like root quality, heat control etc, then run it in two passes.You already understand root penetration and weld size etc, so to me, looks like 2 passes will make a better job than a single.TIG is really limited by how much weld metal you can stuff in without affecting travel speed and burn-through with high amps. That's why you'll see a lot of concave TIG fillet welds. It's not a problem, it's just something you have to take into account if you need a certain throat size.
Reply:That’s where pumping the pedal comes in, slow the roll of the heat by pumping the pedal and you can pump up the throat with with rod.
Reply:He doesn't have a pedal.Miller Multimatic 220ACMiller Thunderbolt 225Victor OA
Reply:Originally Posted by _DomHe doesn't have a pedal.
Reply:I don't use a pedal, i use a button with a sequencer, and that job to me looks like around 120-130 amps tops, coupled with 2-3 seconds downslope to 20% before arc termination. Maybe 140 amps if you're feeling frisky.I can't see no crater in that pic, just a rather large end puddle... longer downslope might help... either way it doesn't look terrible.
Reply:[QUOTE=shovelon;Cram and jam. Speed is your friend.[/QUOTE]My experience tells me this is frowned upon by many women.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11My experience tells me this is frowned upon by many women.
Reply:Touche’Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
