2014 vantage vs 2014 Big Blue 500D (opinions)

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:05:36 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for 2014 vantage vs 2014 Big Blue 500D (opinions)

Good morning all,With motivation to start a welding business focused on fabrication/ industrial and mining work when available, my brother in law and myself are looking for the right machine to invest in for mobile work. We also are aiming to outfit a shop once we establish a name for ourselves, but feel mobile work is a little more convenient for where we are at currently. I'm considering a 500amp class machine for it's universal applications like carbon arcing, heavy flux core and stick work, and Tig use too, as well as the generator output for inverter machines and power outages, since we're plagued with them here. There are two machines I can afford with cash; a 2014 big blue 500D with the Deutz motor w/4100hrs, or a 2014 vantage 500 with a Perkins w/3500hrs. Can someone split hairs for me with these machines? Is there anything I'm overlooking? Both can be had within $5500.I appreciate any opinions,Austin
Reply:I'd probably go with the Vantage or look for an Air Vantage with a compressor if you're going to gouge. That said I don't know if I'd do much gouging with my personal machine. Perkins might be a little better for parts and service.
Reply:The Perkins is a water cooled motor and the Deutz should be an air cooled motor. Both are solid and reliable. I’ve ran big blue 400s that had both the Perkins and Deutz motors. The Perkins were better cold weather starters in winter.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Thanks for the replies! I actually meant to edit my post about the Lincoln, it has a Deutz motor as well. They both have the D2011. Have you had any luck finding used air vantages in the states? I've looked all over and can't find any aside from brand new. Unfortunately they'd be out of my price range most likely, we'll figure an air supply plan out as we move along. Are parts for these machines generally readily available and not crazy money? If you would know. Thank you
Replyo you have enough capital for all the other things you're going to need including insurance? Are you and/or your brother in law working in a welding shop now?
Reply:This isn’t what you asked, but I hope you understand that “portable welding” with a machine that weighs near a ton with no other support equipment means you need a significant truck or trailer. No 1 ton truck is going to cut it, and get ready to meet your new friends at the DOT.On the subject of compressed air I have always chosen to use a separate compressor.
Reply:I certainly appreciate you guys not just saying "go for it kid!" We are both pretty young being 24, he has about 5 years of industrial construction exp and myself I have 6 years of ASME code work with pressure vessels/heat exchangers. Our family owns a construction business that's been healthy for 35+ years, and there's a lot of wisdom to be utilized. The business aspect is what I'm being cautious with. Welding is pretty easy; growing a business is not an endeavor to be taken lightly. We do have access to 1 ton duallies and a class 7 with a flatbed to rig up, if it seems like the right direction. We've been collecting tools over time for the business, and we won't operate without insurance for obvious reasons. This machine comes with a trailer. Is it silly to even bother with one being on a trailer to pull behind? I figured it'd be convenient, for the most part (but that's part of why I'm here; to learn!) We're both full timers with our current occupations, looking to start this gradually until we are self sustaining to take it on full time. Looking forward to thoughts and opinions. Many thanks,Austin
Reply:If the welder is factory mounted to an axle it is likely a running gear and not a trailer, the difference being a running gear is for towing around the yard/ job site and the trailer is DOT compliant. Your friend from the DOT will explain all that and more when you get pulled over. I prefer a 7’x 20’ 2 axle 14k tag trailer With brakes on both axles as it will haul all the equipment and materials you may need to start your business, can be towed by anything reasonable with a hitch and a brake control, and can be locked at the shop unburdening your vehicle when not needed. Good luck getting started and don’t forget the fire extinguishers.Last edited by gundog77; 04-15-2020 at 11:23 AM.
Reply:A 1 ton would carry it no problem, about 1600lbs. full of fuel. So much easier on a truck. I had a TB55D Miller on a 1 ton that does weigh a ton. I was close to  the limit but newer 1 tons have a higher GVW than 10,000lbs. Talking with the mines and other potential customers to see what type of welding/repair services they might require would be a start. You could also send out questionnaires asking what type of services potential customers would be interested in, what they do now, etc. They could reply to your e-mail so it was fairly effortless. A simple way to do some market research. Now wouldn't be a bad time because a lot less work seems to be going on with more people at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by AGorbyGood morning all,With motivation to start a welding business focused on fabrication/ industrial and mining work when available, my brother in law and myself are looking for the right machine to invest in for mobile work. We also are aiming to outfit a shop once we establish a name for ourselves, but feel mobile work is a little more convenient for where we are at currently. I'm considering a 500amp class machine for it's universal applications like carbon arcing, heavy flux core and stick work, and Tig use too, as well as the generator output for inverter machines and power outages, since we're plagued with them here. There are two machines I can afford with cash; a 2014 big blue 500D with the Deutz motor w/4100hrs, or a 2014 vantage 500 with a Perkins w/3500hrs. Can someone split hairs for me with these machines? Is there anything I'm overlooking? Both can be had within $5500.I appreciate any opinions,Austin
Reply:The prices seem pretty good. United Rentals has Vantage 500's for quite a bit more. Being equal condition I think Lincolns just have a little better reputation for engine drives. Not that Millers aren't a good machine. Red-D-Arc would be a good place to check which machines hold up better.
Reply:Hey everyone, sorry, it's been a busy week with work. Thankfully I'm still striking an arc for the refrigeration industry; I hope you all are staying busy as well with everything going on. With regards to reaching out to potential customers, that sounds like a great idea, as mentioned, especially right now  with things being a little slower. I suppose I'm always asking myself if mobile would be the right way to branch out- could any of you give an opinion on your start-ups? Part of me thinks having mobile capability would allow for more jobs (and potentially larger sized jobs that wouldn't make sense to ship to a shop for work due to cost etc), like plant shutdowns, & breakdowns, if you can fit in the timeframe the company would require. but I'm also wondering how much is out there that could be brought to your shop (difference in expenses with insurances/zoning) and the degree of difficulty it could be finding projects (especially those with quantity) that you can fabricate without needing to invest in overhead cranes and a more industrial shop to be able to take on the variety when it's available. Just looking for someone who's been where I am before!Back to the machines,I've looked into the trailering laws here for PA, and I didn't notice until one of you mentioned the yard trailer vs road legal, that it didn't have brake lights on it, so thank you! I'm actually working with a rep at United rentals up state and they are very easy to work with. The machine in question, they're asking $8,600 online for, but are willing to do $5k to sell it without much haggling..I was surprised. And they offered to add brake lights to outfit the trailer for road use, so I can't argue that. Has anyone bought equipment from United rentals before? I figured they have most likely stuck to manufacturer's maintenance schedules to the book, and as long as all controls work and it's not obviously been used as an anvil, I can't really go too wrong. I think I'll be checking it out next Friday..consider it a break from all of the quarantining!
Reply:The only way I would do a shop first is if I had jobs lined up already . That means already having customers in the wings waiting for you to open.   With that said starting as a mobile enterprise has its problems too.  I started mobile.  I also had done work in the past for many people that are close to me.  I suggest you comb through WW with a fine tooth comb now and each time you get a job to see how others have done it.  When I started my business I had 30+ years of experience to draw from and had a wide range of experience.  There is no replacement for experience other than a mentor. There is also nothing like being young either so do not get discouraged and keep at it.  Half of accomplishing anything is tenacity. There is a lot to learn other than how to weld.  You will get jobs and lose money or time on them , that is part of learning. In my mind when if I broke even I chalked it up to a learning experience. I would not advertise on craigslist or anything like that. That is not where the money is.  Hit the road and talk to small industry in your area like saw mills , Tree services have given me a lot of work , talk to the dirt moving industry , loggers , machine shops. That kind of stuff.  Stay way from large industry until you have at least 10 years in your own business. They will eat you for dinner if you even get a chance. Because I worked alone I did not talk to any business with more than 25 employees. Since you have pipe and pressure vessal experience I would probably search out that work specifically . So go to places with lots of piping . You might want to talk to a few heating and air conditioning outfits and show your piping certs. so you can partner with them on some steam/hot water heating repairs/project . They know what procedures are needed and you have the welding certs they would need to do some jobs. You will find that many of the smaller heating contractors shy away from jobs with pipe welding because they do not have anyone who can do it. The larger / union heating contractors get welders from the pipe fitters union when needed.
Reply:I don't know if they still do it but Red-D-Arc used to load test used machines and give a short warranty. I would see if United Rentals could do that and if they have all the service records for the machine. Does the trailer have suspension?