I am not new to welding and have built more than a few things in the past. But I know little about different metals (other than the difference between cast iron, steel, aluminum, and stainless) or selecting the right strength iron for the job. Now I own a couple of welders and have more options on what to use rather than having to use the only thing I had. I just bought a 220V stick welder. It is a Century 230/ 140 AC/DC. The AC side had both a High and Low port. It came with a selection of rods (none in original packaging) ranging from 5/32 down to 1/8 in 6011, 7018 and some that I can't find a marking on. I also have a cheap Harbor Freight 110V wire welder that I converted to DC. I am about to weld an inspection plate cover on my tiller so I can adjust the chain tension. It is 1/8"thick and I am putting a 1/4" rim on it to bolt it in place. I don't know if I should use the HF welder as strength isn't an issue here, but it struggles to penetrate 1/4" steel, or grab a small stick and turn the power down.So when do you pick up the stick welder and when will the wire feed be better?And what do you use as a guide to pick a 6011 or 7018, and when use something else entirely?
Reply:So when do you pick up the stick welder and when will the wire feed be better?
Reply:Originally Posted by Dee_veloperI always use a stick welder. I never do enough welding at one time to justify a wire feed.6011 is a specialty rod IMHO. Use it when you can't clean the metal properly, leaves an ugly weld. 7018 is an oven rod although most use it incorrectly as an open air rod, leaves a nice weld if you know how to use it. Hard to restart for some folks because the tip "clogs".
Reply:the first 2(sometimes 3) numbers of your rod are the tensile strength X 1000 the 3rd number is welding position and the last is the flux type. ie for example 7018 is 70,000 tensile strength 1 stands for all position 2 is horizontal and 3 is flat onlyand 8 means low hydrogen among a few other things
Reply:6011 (arc stabilized) is a deep penetrating AC or DC rod. 6010 is very similar, but is not suitable for AC welders. They blast away base metal, and corruption. Use them where you can't get at the surface to grind it clean. It is also a fast freeze filler. Use it to place a root in an open weld, for vertical first pass, and overhead. The risk you take with 6011 and 6010 is hydrogen cracking. The flux on these rods includes cellulose, a hydrocarbon. In the heat of welding hydrocarbons separate, and free hydrogen. Hydrogen moves freely through molten weld both before, and after it hardens. It stops moving when it gets to steel that hasn't melted. Think of it as PAM cooking spray. It prevents a weld from sticking. Here is when we hear the term "non critical welds". Fact is, most welds stronger than they need to be, hydrogen doesn't matter. 7016, 7018, 11018 are low hydrogen rods. If fresh from a WELL sealed package, or oven stored, these rods won't contribute much hydrogen. My opinion is that tensile strength (60000, or 70000) are unimportant. All welds shrink as they cool. Enormous tension builds up as the weld shrinks away from the material it joins. Here, ductility is most important. Ductile welds stretch to normalize these stresses. 7018 is legendary for ductility. Most will agree, MIG is a risky process where weld fusion is critical. Filler strength is in a range similar to 7018, or even 11018. Fusion strength isn't always as good. As an example, I had a 25 year old trailer hitch, it looked as strong as any weld, but pulled away from base metal as though it wasn't attached. Strong MIG welds are common, but aren't always.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:You already have the answer. Your wire feed struggles with 1/4" and you're going to weld something that is 1/4". I'd run a 3/32 7014 or 7018 on the stick machine and be confident that it ain't going to fall apart at some point in the future.
Reply:These might help?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:So when do you pick up the stick welder and when will the wire feed be better?
Reply:Originally Posted by ColtonWeldsthe first 2(sometimes 3) numbers of your rod are the tensile strength X 1000 the 3rd number is welding position and the last is the flux type. ie for example 7018 is 70,000 tensile strength 1 stands for all position 2 is horizontal and 3 is flat onlyand 8 means low hydrogen among a few other things
Reply:The guys above covered it. Mig is great for thin metals and can be used for thick too. The main issue is that you can make a pretty weld with mig but it lacks penetration. I've repaired many factory mig welds where they were just cold welds. Check these pictures, factory mig welds on a three point rear blade. The weld never penetrated and it still held for a while. The weld is basically on the channel and nothing on the pipe sleeve. Pretty sad for their quality control guys. This is before I did anything to the pieces, all factory work.There are mig machines for thick steel but it's operator failure . Each machine process has it's good and bad. It can be challenging to get a mig gun in between parts to weld but a stick rod fits perfect. Attached Images
Reply:If this will be your first time running stick, you might want to do some/a lot of practicing first. Unless you're used to it, it's harder to run than mig. But it penetrates better unless you're using a big mig and have it set right. I'd been using a mig for some time before I got a stick machine. My first beads with it were pathetic. It took a good bit of practice before my stick skills were somewhat functional.
Reply:There's also the tendency of beginners to get mesmerized by the arc instead of watching the puddle while using mig or stick.MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI've never seen 7016. Jody Collier uses it and describes it as low hydrogen. How does it differ from 7018?
Reply:The guys above gave you good advice , however i must say every Railcar made since the mid 80,s is 99 % MIG welded ! There is no thickness limit for a properly set mig machine , we use to weld 1 1/4 with 5/64 flux core every day ! The average life of those cars is 50 yrs with little to no repairs done over there life . Most people are scared to crank those machines up , or they dont have enough machine for what they are trying to do .
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveThese might help?
Reply:if you have a smart phone then go to your app store and MILLER has a free app that you can use to exactly setup your machine for mig stick or TIG for each job.. input the metal thickness and the process ya are using and it will give ya correct rod for stick, wire for mig etc.. for mig and tig it brings up the gas and settings as well the amperage, position and so on, also look in your app store for WELDING ya will find several good apps... I thought after 30 years was no need to referance such utilities but ya know they have listed settings I hadn't considered and I'm getting more versatility by following some of their apps suggestions... who woulda thought MILLER might be able to tell ya something about welding edit; this smart phone is turning out to be pretty handy now if I could just figure out a way to see the screen out in the Arizona sun insteada having to go inside the shop trailer it would be even handier...Last edited by monsoon-mech; 04-10-2019 at 09:58 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by monsoon-mechif you have a smart phone then go to your app store and MILLER has a free app that you can use to exactly setup your machine for mig stick or TIG for each job.. input the metal thickness and the process ya are using and it will give ya correct rod for stick, wire for mig etc.. for mig and tig it brings up the gas and settings as well the amperage, position and so on, also look in your app store for WELDING ya will find several good apps... I thought after 30 years was no need to referance such utilities but ya know they have listed settings I hadn't considered and I'm getting more versatility by following some of their apps suggestions... who woulda thought MILLER might be able to tell ya something about welding edit; this smart phone is turning out to be pretty handy now if I could just figure out a way to see the screen out in the Arizona sun insteada having to go inside the shop trailer it would be even handier...
Reply:Originally Posted by machinisttxMiller also offers these: https://smile.amazon.com/Miller-Elec...s%2C200&sr=8-2
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI actually have those in my welding tool chest top drawer. More accurate than my memory
Reply:IndianaDundee Originally Posted by IndianaDundee . . . Now I own a couple of welders and have more options on what to use rather than having to use the only thing I had. I just bought a 220V stick welder . . . I also have a cheap Harbor Freight 110V wire welder . . .So when do you pick up the stick welder, and when will the wire feed be better? And what guide . . . when use something else entirely?
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROIndianaDundeeIt is evident: you have stepped - 'under the threshold' of stick and wire proficiency - hence, your inept query . . . You have asked a question - if given the correct/best answer - you would not understand . . . Self Actualization: secure a large cache of scrap metal in all shapes/gauges - practice welding 'all configurations' - with all of your 'weld processes' - and weld to death [over and over]. Do this for six months - then re-ask your question. After this Protein Pump - you will realize:how flat, hollow, and ***** your question . . .mla2ofusYou - gotta stay off - the Hooper Water . . .You have it backwards -E7018 is difficult to re-strike because of the 'flux gloss' on the tip of the 'recessed rod tip' - not by the 'flux cone'. "pinch the cupped flux off" - only exposes more bare rod - without removing the 'glaze' on the tip of the rod. Your recommendation makes a 're-strike' more difficult . . . [I know the cure] . . .Willie BE7016 - was the Lo-Hi antecedent of E7018 - the transition occurred in the early '70's.E7016 - had a thinner white flux [the puddle was more visible] and the flux stuck to the weld. E7016 - [all] welding required a needle/gun-scaler - to free the flux. If you were doing critical work - you would cleanse the margins - tapping with an ice-pick . . .E7018 and E6010/IP [Iron Power] were introduced within years of each other - and bothoccurred in my experience . . .Y'all - Hope this helps . . .Opus.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROIndianaDundeeIt is evident: you have stepped - 'under the threshold' of stick and wire proficiency - hence, your inept query . . . You have asked a question - if given the correct/best answer - you would not understand . . . Self Actualization: secure a large cache of scrap metal in all shapes/gauges - practice welding 'all configurations' - with all of your 'weld processes' - and weld to death [over and over]. Do this for six months - then re-ask your question. After this Protein Pump - you will realize:how flat, hollow, and ***** your question . . .Y'all - Hope this helps . . .Opus.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BAre there any advantages to 7016? IE less risk of sag going uphill? or is it an obsolete product?
Reply:Originally Posted by IndianaDundee,No it doesn't help when a internet know-it-all gets condescending to a new member. If you are that knowledgeable think back to when you first started and how you would take the above comment. Most the other responses have been helpful and based around my level of understanding. I may be new on this forum but I am not new to the internet. Don't pick on the new guy, you may find yourself in need of something someday.
Reply:Originally Posted by IndianaDundee,No it doesn't help when a internet know-it-all gets condescending to a new member. If you are that knowledgeable think back to when you first started and how you would take the above comment. Most the other responses have been helpful and based around my level of understanding. I may be new on this forum but I am not new to the internet. Don't pick on the new guy, you may find yourself in need of something someday.Originally Posted by Willie BAre there any advantages to 7016? IE less risk of sag going uphill? or is it an obsolete product?
Reply:Originally Posted by IndianaDundee,No it doesn't help when a internet know-it-all gets condescending to a new member. If you are that knowledgeable think back to when you first started and how you would take the above comment. Most the other responses have been helpful and based around my level of understanding. I may be new on this forum but I am not new to the internet. Don't pick on the new guy, you may find yourself in need of something someday.
Reply:Just click on his name, then click on "Add to ignore list" (left side of the page). You won't see anything he has to say anymore.
Reply:I wish the ignore list would hide the person's name as well as his posts. On another forum I've been part of for many years, I added someone to my list (first person I ever did) and was quite annoyed to find his name still showed up. A LONG time ago there was an browser add-on that would eliminate someone AND their name from your view in a thread but it was never updated and doesn't work any longer. I don't think Vbulletin has the ability to eliminate the name. just the post. Better than nothing though.Last edited by JD1; 04-12-2019 at 10:32 AM.
Reply:I am not worrying about Opus. Like I said, not my first time on the internet, I can handle a bully. I just didn't want to start a fight on my 4th post on this site.I picked up some 7014 today to give them a try. I will also try drying my 7018 on a gas grill since I don't have a rod oven.Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply:I could be wrong but I believe it's been mentioned on here that unless it's code or critical work, you don't need to worry about rod ovens or heating up 7018 just as long as it hasn't been in a damp environment.
Reply:Originally Posted by IndianaDundeeI am not worrying about Opus. Like I said, not my first time on the internet, I can handle a bully. I just didn't want to start a fight on my 4th post on this site.I picked up some 7014 today to give them a try. I will also try drying my 7018 on a gas grill since I don't have a rod oven.Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusThere's also the tendency of beginners to get mesmerized by the arc instead of watching the puddle while using mig or stick.Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by JD1I could be wrong but I believe it's been mentioned on here that unless it's code or critical work, you don't need to worry about rod ovens or heating up 7018 just as long as it hasn't been in a damp environment.
Reply:Wet lo hydrogen is no better protected from hydrogen than 6011 or 6010. If you can't get the benefit of lo hydrogen anyway, I love Messer 80T AC+ a rod designed for AC, or DC. It is the sweetest running rod ever.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by IndianaDundeeI think they have been in a damp environment. The average humidity in East Tennessee is around 80%. In February we got record rainfall. It has been like driving a submarine with the windows open around here. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by JD1Your wife's oven works well to clean out the moisture, that is unless she'll get hostile over it. There's a post or two on here telling what setting and how long. I just can't remember what they are. My 7018's aren't in a damp environment so I haven't chased that one down.
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ang, do normal ovens actually get that hot? I hate cooking so I'm clueless about such things.
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ang, do normal ovens actually get that hot? I hate cooking so I'm clueless about such things.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Maybe a gas oven...I have never seen an electric oven that goes above 500 degrees.
Reply:I can't help it! Rod ovens aren't so expensive, but electricity is. I can't do it. New rod is cheap compared to the price of electricity. Best low hydrogen is maintained hot from the moment of opening it.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I was obviously wrong about using an oven, not that the comment hasn't been made on here though.From the Fabricator website:Using a home oven to recondition welding rods is another unwise choice. The fire department likely will visit your house, because most rods require 500 to 700 degrees for reconditioning for anywhere from 30 minutes to four hours. (see http://www.rodovens.com/welding_arti...rage_chart.htm for recommended storage and reconditioning temperatures.)The old saying Use the right tool for the job comes to mind here. If youre welding at home, you can buy an inexpensive rod oven that uses regular 110-V electricity. Bigger, more efficient, and affordable ovens are available for bigger jobs or shops.Rod ovens:https://www.amazon.com/s?k=welding+r...f=nb_sb_noss_1Last edited by JD1; 04-15-2019 at 07:10 PM.
Reply:My home oven will go to 550° but the power meter is spinning pretty fast.I know my gas grill will do 700° as I have melted wheel weights on it before. I have to be careful to not hit 900 or the zinc weights will melt and spoil the lead.I would think that even with the moisture in the gas combustion by putting the rods in a pan on an open top grill it would serve the purpose of reconditioning them. Then as I understand it a rod oven keeps them at 200° until use. I can do that in a toaster oven that I use to form Kydex.I am always coming up with was to make what I have work.Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply:Keep your eyes open for a rod oven on craigslist and similar sites. I bought a Keen K450 for $50. I've seen a few others(much smaller versions) for reasonable prices...that said, the small 10 pound ovens aren't all that expensive to start with.
Reply:Try to take as many variables out of the equation as you can but a rod oven for fng around in the garage or welding up farm equipment, every commercial/high rise/industrial job I been on there were 50# cans of 7018 sitting open at a column in all kinds of weather and a whole lot of pipe got welded with it, you threw a 50#er on your lift I'd it took a day or a month, if there were a oven in the gang box guys would pull the rod in the morning stick it in there back pocket for the rest of the day, they were nice for heating your lunch up though
