Right to work

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:01:36 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for Right to work

I work out of UA 521 and my state went RTW today. I am wondering if anyone on here works union in a right to work state?
Reply:I used to work out of the IBEW in Virginia. Is there something specific you want to know about RTW states?Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
Reply:There are only about 9 or 10 states left that are not RTW.   Wisconsin went RTW last year.  I know MN, MO, Ny do not have RTW . I can't remember the rest.
Reply:What does "right to work" mean? - not being a US denizen.
Reply:Originally Posted by jackdawgWhat does "right to work" mean? - not being a US denizen.
Reply:You say all this like it's a bad thing?  Originally Posted by soutthpawIt's basically a union busting law pioneered by Republicans.  Means employees cannot be required to pay union dues to the union to get a job and the employer does not have to hire only union employees.   Sent from mobile.  Not responsible for Typos
Reply:Originally Posted by jackdawgWhat does "right to work" mean? - not being a US denizen.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderYou say all this like it's a bad thing?
Reply:Negative. I'm an employee, and I am 110% for RTW laws. As are most people who aren't interested in being part of a union. After all, that's why these laws got passed.
Reply:Coming from a guy in NYC, that's funny. Let's not be disingenuous about this discussion. A Right to Work law means that you have the right to be employed without being compelled to join a union, or pay union dues. Many unions will collect union dues from non union workers. Originally Posted by docwelderrtw means you have the right to work for less money.
Reply:regardless of my geographic location according to the economic policy institute workers in rtw states earn less money than workers in non rtw places btw, i'm in florida right now if that's of interest to youi.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:That's because unions throw a tantrum to get their employers to pay exorbitant wages and benefits and pensions that are unsustainable. The unions served their purpose in the 1900's. Now they're nothing more than bullies, to both employers and non union employees. Nothing more than a bunch of overgrown children throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. Acting like they have a right to be employed. Right to work laws are good for America's workers. It ensures that they have the ability to join a union if they want to, but it also ensures that they cannot be compelled to join a union. That's a good thing, right? If unions are so wonderful, then they shouldn't need to force people to join, right?Frankly I don't care where you are or where you're from, it's just unsurprising that a NYC liberal opposes right to work laws. Originally Posted by docwelderregardless of my geographic location according to the economic policy institute workers in rtw states earn less money than workers in non rtw places btw, i'm in florida right now if that's of interest to you
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThat's because unions throw a tantrum to get their employers to pay exorbitant wages and benefits and pensions that are unsustainable. The unions served their purpose in the 1900's. Now they're nothing more than bullies, to both employers and non union employees. Nothing more than a bunch of overgrown children throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. Acting like they have a right to be employed. Right to work laws are good for America's workers. It ensures that they have the ability to join a union if they want to, but it also ensures that they cannot be compelled to join a union. That's a good thing, right? If unions are so wonderful, then they shouldn't need to force people to join, right?
Reply:Uh huh. Well, you can "believe" whatever you want. The Economic Policy Institute is associated with the labor movement. Says so right there on their Google search. Surprise surprise, an organization associated with the labor movement, with a vested interest in seeing unions grow, is going to say that right to work states suffer more than union states. This is my shocked face.Detroit school districts spent $13,825 per student in 2012-2013. That is an OBSCENELY high dollar amount. And yet, Detroit schools are some of the worst in the country. More money spent on education is not even CLOSE to an indicator of educational quality. Citation: http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/20546
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderUh huh. Well, you can "believe" whatever you want. The Economic Policy Institute is associated with the labor movement. Says so right there on their Google search. Surprise surprise, an organization associated with the labor movement, with a vested interest in seeing unions grow, is going to say that right to work states suffer more than union states. This is my shocked face.Detroit school districts spent $13,825 per student in 2012-2013. That is an OBSCENELY high dollar amount. And yet, Detroit schools are some of the worst in the country. More money spent on education is not even CLOSE to an indicator of educational quality. Citation: http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/20546
Reply:Oh sure, because "It's the right to work for less money" is definitely an informed and unbiased answer to the question at hand, and not at all an endorsement of one side over the other. Gotcha.Yeah, I have an axe to grind against unions. I'm conservative, tax paying American who's sick of seeing all the bull**** going on in this country with the unions, both public and private sector. Public sector unions, bad idea. Total conflict of interest. They shouldn't even exist. Private sector unions, same deal. Conflict of interest. They contribute money to political campaigns that put more money in their pockets. Vicious cycle. And don't even get me started on the systemic violence and aggression and overall negative attitude from union workers towards their non-union counterparts. One big one that comes to mind that was recently in the news... UAW Local 412 published a "blacklist" of the non-union workers in auto plants, and actually released a statement saying "lease do not share any tools, knowledge or support for any of these employees who choose not to pay their fair share." That's bull****. And there's plenty of more aggressive instances to be read about online. Violence, property damage, etc. http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...l#.VsIDDebWrGsUnions need to go. It's the best thing for America, and America's workers. Originally Posted by docweldersorry if you got an axe to grind against organised labor and nyc. nobody is forcing you to join and i'm not beating the drum for or against simply answering a few questions on the issue. believe what you like. it's a free country. for now anyway
Reply:I think there is a lot more to it then joining a union or not. Without a union it seems working conditions generally are not the safest, the employer dictates what HE wants and what he will pay you. IF you don't like the conditions or wages then you can quit. Without a union your fight is one on one , with a union you have many to fight one. I don't know what is considered exorbitant wages , benefits ,and pensions but UNION workers are can be highly skilled and are trained before becoming a Journeyman. A non union guy can walk in off the street and get $8.00 an hour while a trained professional can get $40.00 and complete the job with better quality , timely fashion, and no call backs. There are bad union workers and good ones. The bad are usually out of work and the good ones always work. As for the pension, my UNION pension being retired is more then many guys make. I was never out of work and always had offers to go to another union employer. Today is different whether you are union or not. Today you gotta sell yourself more then 30 years ago. You must be the best you can be or your down the road.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderOh sure, because "It's the right to work for less money" is definitely an informed and unbiased answer to the question at hand, and not at all an endorsement of one side over the other. Gotcha.Yeah, I have an axe to grind against unions. I'm conservative, tax paying American who's sick of seeing all the bull**** going on in this country with the unions, both public and private sector. Public sector unions, bad idea. Total conflict of interest. They shouldn't even exist. Private sector unions, same deal. Conflict of interest. They contribute money to political campaigns that put more money in their pockets. Vicious cycle. And don't even get me started on the systemic violence and aggression and overall negative attitude from union workers towards their non-union counterparts. One big one that comes to mind that was recently in the news... UAW Local 412 published a "blacklist" of the non-union workers in auto plants, and actually released a statement saying "lease do not share any tools, knowledge or support for any of these employees who choose not to pay their fair share." That's bull****. And there's plenty of more aggressive instances to be read about online. Violence, property damage, etc. http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...l#.VsIDDebWrGsUnions need to go. It's the best thing for America, and America's workers.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelder maybe you could point me to a site that says right to work employees earn more?
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I think there is a lot more to it then joining a union or not. Without a union it seems working conditions generally are not the safest, the employer dictates what HE wants and what he will pay you. IF you don't like the conditions or wages then you can quit. Without a union your fight is one on one , with a union you have many to fight one. I don't know what is considered exorbitant wages , benefits ,and pensions but UNION workers are can be highly skilled and are trained before becoming a Journeyman. A non union guy can walk in off the street and get $8.00 an hour while a trained professional can get $40.00 and complete the job with better quality , timely fashion, and no call backs. There are bad union workers and good ones. The bad are usually out of work and the good ones always work. As for the pension, my UNION pension being retired is more then many guys make. I was never out of work and always had offers to go to another union employer. Today is different whether you are union or not. Today you gotta sell yourself more then 30 years ago. You must be the best you can be or your down the road.
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanIf you read this report, the answer is second or 3rd from the bottom.http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...s-myth-vs-factJerry
Reply:It is a pretty balanced report.  This is the para I was referring to:"Myth: Right-to-work laws lower wages.  Fact: Workers have the same or higher buying power in right-to-work states.  Opponents often deride voluntary dues as “right-to-work for less.”  Average wages in right-to-work states are indeed slightly lower than in  non-right-to-work states. This occurs because almost every Southern  state has a right-to-work law and the South has a lower cost of living.             Studies that control for differences in costs of living find workers in  states with voluntary dues have no lower—and possibly slightly  higher—real wages than workers in states with compulsory dues.[10]  "30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I think it also depends on the union. When I was a kid my dad was an IAM machinist. That union took good care of him and only went on strike one time while I was growing up. Most of the time they worked very cooperatively with the company, and their jobs stayed on shore for a long time. When I left college and became a Paramedic, we were non-union at first then after about 5 years the company organized. We were AFT for a while, then switched over to IAFF. Worst union experience ever. The contract sucked, and the only people who got overtime were the two people at the top of the seniority list. I ended up having to take a second job because I couldn't live on my union salary and there was no more OT to be had. I am not sure how it was discovered, but the last year I worked union, the president of our local was convicted of fraud and did 10 years in the state pen. Turned out our contract was bad because he was taking bribes from the company. When I was working in Detroit for GM as a contractor, it was sad to see how UAW was sucking the life out of that company. GM management was pretty screwed up too, but the union and their work rules were absolutely insane. Its no wonder GM went bankrupt.Miller Multimatic 255
Replyne benefit of the rtw law is that it makes my union work harder to keep me as a dues paying member which can only be good for me.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Here is another item. This based on census data.  I was raised just outside Flint Mich, (fortunately on well water).  Still have a brother and sister there.http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/20161Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air PressOriginally Posted by docwelderone benefit of the rtw law is that it makes my union work harder to keep me as a dues paying member which can only be good for me.
Reply:i worked both sides of the union fence. i also worked hard for each and everyone of my employers and know i was missed badly when i left. i can't speak for anyone else but from my own personal experience working union is way better.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961I think it also depends on the union. When I was a kid my dad was an IAM machinist. That union took good care of him and only went on strike one time while I was growing up. Most of the time they worked very cooperatively with the company, and their jobs stayed on shore for a long time. When I left college and became a Paramedic, we were non-union at first then after about 5 years the company organized. We were AFT for a while, then switched over to IAFF. Worst union experience ever. The contract sucked, and the only people who got overtime were the two people at the top of the seniority list. I ended up having to take a second job because I couldn't live on my union salary and there was no more OT to be had. I am not sure how it was discovered, but the last year I worked union, the president of our local was convicted of fraud and did 10 years in the state pen. Turned out our contract was bad because he was taking bribes from the company. When I was working in Detroit for GM as a contractor, it was sad to see how UAW was sucking the life out of that company. GM management was pretty screwed up too, but the union and their work rules were absolutely insane. Its no wonder GM went bankrupt.
Reply:I think the worst union I’ve ever been around was the UAW. In 1976 I worked at a GM plate in Fremont California. I was in the crew installing monorail conveyor. One day we went into an area of the plant that had a bunch of cardboard boxes on the floor. We started moving the boxes so we could chalk lines on the floor. Several GM employees were sleeping in the boxes. They through a fit because we ask them to move.While we were working there, a female employee on her lunch break got caught out back giving a male employee a blow job. They fired the male employee, and made it stick, because he was suppose to be on the line working. The UAW got the girl off, because it was none of GM’s business what she ate on her lunch break!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I will not support any business or organization that gives money and blind support to the Democrat party.
Reply:^^^^^^^  +130+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawIt's basically a union busting law pioneered by Republicans.  Means employees cannot be required to pay union dues to the union to get a job and the employer does not have to hire only union employees.   Sent from mobile.  Not responsible for Typos
Replyitto.
Reply:When I was at GM, they had EDS working for them doing IT support. They had to pay EDS on a per PC basis for the PC support, which included moves/adds/changes. Normally anywhere else in the world the fee paid to EDS would include the labor cost of picking the PC up and physically moving it to another location as needed. However, at GM, because of work rules, the EDS guys would unhook the PC, then call for a UAW crew (yes it takes more than one UAW worker to move a PC), and the UAW people would move it to another room, then EDS could plug it back in. Crazy.....Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Interesting take on the UAW  http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin.../#1439bbd862ceMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961When I was at GM, they had EDS working for them doing IT support. They had to pay EDS on a per PC basis for the PC support, which included moves/adds/changes. Normally anywhere else in the world the fee paid to EDS would include the labor cost of picking the PC up and physically moving it to another location as needed. However, at GM, because of work rules, the EDS guys would unhook the PC, then call for a UAW crew (yes it takes more than one UAW worker to move a PC), and the UAW people would move it to another room, then EDS could plug it back in. Crazy.....
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly Now they're nothing more than bullies, to both employers and non union employees. Nothing more than a bunch of overgrown children throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. Acting like they have a right to be employed.
Reply:The growth of the unions led to the growth of the middle class, and the demise of unions had the anticipated effect on the middle class.Unions typically increase the wages of their workers while also raising pay for nonunion workers in industries with a strong union presence.Last edited by yesindeed; 02-24-2016 at 10:01 AM.Millermatic 211Everlast 200DX Thermal Arc 181iKlutch ST80i lunchbox stick welderLincoln Weld-Pak 100Century Stick welderPowermax 30 plasma cutterHenrob 2000 torchLogan 200 lathe (60 years old)Clausing 6339 Lathe (for sale)
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanIf you read this report, the answer is second or 3rd from the bottom.http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...s-myth-vs-factJerry
Reply:We DON'T need right-to-work (for less) around here. We have decent wages and adequate benefits now where I live, but wages are pretty low in the RTW states. I live a modest (compared to most people I know), but decent lifestyle. If my wages are lowered too much, or if I have to pay more for health insurance, I am not going to make it. What am I supposed to do? Get 10 roommates like some college kid? Maybe when I was 19 that would have been fun, but that's not happening now. I just love it when office types who seem to get paid a lot more than I do tell me I make too much money.Lincoln Weld-PakSears buzz box
Reply:I live in a non rtw state and work in a union shop. The company I work for operates at various locations, some union some non. The pay and benefits and much higher in the union shops as compared to the nonunion ones. I think that's a more apples to apples comparison than trying to compare different states and areas of the country where cost of living and other factors are more difficult to accurately compare
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69The pay and benefits and much higher in the union shops as compared to the nonunion ones. I think that's a more apples to apples comparison than trying to compare different states and areas of the country where cost of living and other factors are more difficult to accurately compare
Reply:Hillarybilly your one uneducated dude. I'll agree with you on a few points such as I to believe one should be able to choose whether or not they want to belong. With that said I work in a union shop in a rtw state and we have 99% membership because we are good to our people and they realize the value of a secure pension and not worried about getting fired for speaking up.  My favorite part of union work is I don't have to compete with Bobby's uncle cousin ex husband in law and or drinking buddy that isn't nearly as skilled of a craftsman as I am. Is there still BS on a union job oh hell yeah but I'll proudly work union. I'll agree and I actually have first hand experience and knowledge of the nepotism that hurts the higher ups in most unions, I was the president of my local for 3 years and a officer for 6. Is there things I don't like, of course but we can all thank unions for what we make today. So many forgetting and ungrateful people in our country today that don't have a damn clue how we got on our gravy train. Go thank a union member.
Reply:Southpaw.. to say this is a republican union busting law sounds a little exagerated. I guess you dont work in a union job right now. I been in a union job for 21 years and have coworkers both inside and out of unions. Right now our union have done everything possible to side with the company and rape us of our benefits under the company having gone in bakruptcy and using the same federal government that is supposed to protect unions, to basically push us into a forced contract with less benefits than what I had when I started 21 yeas ago. I guess you are a young guy and I hope you do learn with time what unions really are. Unions are just a show to keep the sheep quiet. They are mostly like a sheep dog. Everything is fine as long as the sheep dont try to get outside the fence. The company feeds the sheep dog, not  the union fees. Union fees are a bonus to them.And companies can get rid of the union highest representatives one way or the other. Your union representatives get additional money and benefits that the rest of the union members dont get. And many times when is time to honor the contract, your case get lost in a mountain of legal language when your union representative tells you that the contract says "this" but that at the moment of signing the contract, the " intent " of that language was "that". And that it can be interpreted both ways. In contrast, right now, I have friends that are non union and they have gotten 7 dollars more an hour than me, doing the same job , with less work experience, and reaching their top pay salary in less time than I did. To people like me, to be able to renounce to a union that does nothing for me without being laid off for not having representation is a benefit. And most unions will tell you that you can not sue them or sue the company and keep working at the same time(which is total BS). Unions use to work many years ago when they started. Right now they are just a mafia to control the sheep and keep everyone under the rules without making too much noise. The problemwith you making this politic is that you give the wrong idea to people who may not know anything about unions like the OP. Unions can be a benefit or a total disaster. Having the right to keep working , when you dont agree with the BS that the union may want to impose you, and without paying monthly fees to a lawyer that goes against you, is a blessing , not the other way around. I know you have your own business and you seem to be a young guy. I wish you luck and hope that you dont have to experience yourself what a BS concept unions are nowaday. Have a good day.QC.
Reply:It's awful easy to just pick a side & just go with it. The RTW thing is a bit crazy in thinking that'll fix the markets, it doesn't all by itself but it does level things a bit.I'd no more blame the UAW for work practices than try to flap my arms & try to fly - "where was the boss when it came to contract time"... AWOL... You got the worst possible combination with a near monopoly business using monopoly labor??? So the boss say's "fudge it - let's go golf". The real insult came when some sheep rancher out west and everyone else had to "pitch in" to save it??? WTF!! If it's run badly - let it die! If the market is still there the vacuum will be filled quick enough - and for a short time lessens will be learned only to be forgotten by future generations - rinse & repeat.The closed shop states are suffering relative in "total market" and "shrinking" at a much faster rate than they should all things being equal. And really suffering in the "small ball" stuff. Poor rural areas pretty much work more like an open shop system because they have to and there are different scales for construction trades - or there wouldn't be any money trading hands. I my state we are presently "breaking" with taxes & fees going up but revenue shrinking while obligations are increasing. Not smart.We are a unique nation in the fact that "we can" engage an agent to bargain with the boss as an individual or as a group and go on with our work while they fuss over money. The contract is an instrument between two that agree on the terms. Western Europe has unions but they don't have the same roll when it comes to wages in the social democracies, they do however with the employer "keep the trade". Asia has nothing like our agent/contract system either & South America is mostly a total basket case for labor having no unions (in supposed "share & share alike" socialist economies you don't need them). So I rather like our option.I sometimes get in trouble for this but I think we need "more" unions... It's the second part that gets me in trouble though, which is "you're union looks pretty WHITE to me given the area"... AND "suppose some of the brothers in their neighborhood want to get handy with a craft, make a go & charter their own union (just to feel comfortable & know - yea I really did build that). The answer is usually a quiet "it doesn't work that way" the reason is it "would" likely create unwanted competition and change the dynamics for the market place.Being white as rice myself, the selfish interest is - that such an arrangement of competing different groups in the marketplace would have to be cheaper than the current model of welfare practiced by government (wasteful, untalented lot they are). So while some monopoly interests may have to lose some weight in the short term, the long term may be a much more equal model in the broad base.I'm not surprised that tensions are high everywhere, I just don't know where it's going...Good luck guysMatt
Reply:Regarding the "Right to Work (for less)" states, dont believe the hype that the states want to let corporations and workers freely engage in negotiations for work. Dont think for a minute that they want to keep out of it, and let the free market work. If a large manufacturing company wants to open up a factory and institute some kind of union-management council in order to maximize their profits, like it does everywhere else it operates factories,  the government will go against basic conservative principles and attempt to inject itself into the process.  It will try to derail the arrangement, and try to force the corporation to kill union formation. The corrupt conservative-influenced republican government will even withhold tax incentives if the company goes union. Very grimy.Remember how the Republicans showed that they are not really in favor of "hands-off business" policies. They dont really want a free market, where employers and employees bargain fairly, and they showed that in Chattanooga involving Volkswagen. They would rather have no factory open, and have everyone unemployed, than have a union plant open. They intimidated the workers, threatening that if they voted YES on unionizing, the plant wouldn't open.Just How Much Do Republicans Hate Unions?Paul WaldmanFebruary 13, 2014So much they're willing to fight against a corporation if it's union-friendly.If you ask Republicans about their antipathy toward unions, they'll say that letting workers bargain collectively reduces a company's ability to act efficiently in the marketplace. If you knew anything about business, the market advocates will patiently explain, you'd understand that unions, with all their rules and conditions and strike threats, only make it harder for the company to make its products. Let management make decisions about things like wages and working conditions, and the result will be higher profits and more jobs, which will benefit everyone. In almost all cases, the corporation agrees; after all, union workers always earn better wages than their non-union counterparts, and they give power to the employees, which no CEO wants.What most people probably don't realize is that this inherently hostile relationship between management and unions isn't something that's inherent in capitalism. In fact, in many places where there are capitalists making lots of money, corporations work—now hold on here while I blow your mind—cooperatively with unions. One of those places is Germany, and one of the biggest German companies, Volkswagen, is right now embroiled in a union election in Tennessee that has turned into a bizarre spectacle that is showing the true colors of American conservatism. If you thought conservative were just laissez faire capitalists, seeking freedom for businesses to create prosperity, you're dead wrong. What they actually want is something much uglier.On Monday, our own Harold Meyerson explained the context and history driving this election, but the short version is that in its Chattanooga plant, Volkswagen wants to create a "works council" of the kind that companies in Germany use, which is a system where management and workers come together to set policies, plan strategy, and solve problems. The details of U.S. labor law require a union if such a council is going to be created, which is one reason VW has seemed supportive of the United Auto Workers organizing the plant. Although VW hasn't come out and said they support the union, the signals they've sent strongly suggest that they do. "Our works councils are key to our success and productivity," said the VW executive who runs the Chattanooga plant.So faced with a union-friendly corporation, what have Republicans in the state done? One might expect them to say, "Every company should have the freedom to decide how to deal with its own workers; we may not be big fans of unions, but that freedom is what capitalism is all about," or something like that. But no. The Republican governor and state legislators have begun issuing threats that there won't be any future tax incentives for the company if the union wins the election. In other words, tax incentives are vital to bring jobs to the state—but if they're union jobs, we don't want them. We'd rather see our constituents unemployed than see them get jobs with union representation. So what you now have is Republicans fighting against a corporation to try to impose their vision of management-labor relations, one the corporation doesn't want.Then yesterday, Republican Sen. Bob Corker claimed, "I've had conversations today and based on those am assured that should the workers vote against the UAW, Volkswagen will announce in the coming weeks that it will manufacture its new mid-size SUV here in Chattanooga." There are two things to understand about Corker's statement. First, it doesn't pass the smell test: the Chattanooga plant is the only Volkswagen factory in the world that doesn't have a union, and the company has already made its good relationship with unions in general, and its desire for a works council there in particular, quite clear. And second, that kind of blatant attempt to intimidate workers into voting against the union when the election is going on is probably illegal, and could result in the election being halted and rescheduled.What this issue has revealed is that while one might have thought that as far as conservatives are concerned, the creation of workplaces in which employees are given low wages and few benefits, and generally treated like crap, was merely a means to an end, the end being corporate profits and maximum freedom for business owners. But what we're now seeing is that a powerless and beaten-down workforce isn't a means to a larger end, and it isn't a byproduct. It is the end in itself. It's the goal. Here you have a highly profitable company that wants to have a more cooperative relationship with its workers, and obviously sees a union as a path to that relationship, because they know that they can work that way with unions, since they do it already all over the world. But the Republican politicians don't care about what the corporation wants. They are so venomously opposed to collective bargaining that they'll toss aside all their supposed ideals about economic liberty in a heartbeat.One of the absurd arguments they've made is that other companies, like suppliers, won't want to come to Tennessee if there's a unionized auto plant there, as though it were some kind of infection others would fear they might catch. That's ridiculous, of course—if you have a company that makes car parts, and VW wants to buy thousands and thousands of your parts, you're damn sure going to set up shop next to their factory if that's the best way to make money. What Republicans are really afraid of is that the union will come in to the Chattanooga plant and things will work well. If that happened, the rationale for the race to the bottom would be severely undermined. And the idea that corporations can do well by treating their employees like partners and not like enemies might indeed spread.Last edited by yesindeed; 02-28-2016 at 10:39 PM.Millermatic 211Everlast 200DX Thermal Arc 181iKlutch ST80i lunchbox stick welderLincoln Weld-Pak 100Century Stick welderPowermax 30 plasma cutterHenrob 2000 torchLogan 200 lathe (60 years old)Clausing 6339 Lathe (for sale)
Replyid anyone ever consider how the map of the "right to work (for less)" states bears a striking resemblance to the map of the states which had slavery at the time of the civil war? Its not surprising that the area of the country that had so little respect for labor, that they actually believed it should be given for free, would be roughly the same area today that wants workers to work for little pay. Contempt of labor, which has been the cancer that for generations thrived in the South, is now spreading into parts of the North.  It is truly a race to the bottom, and it is amazing that the working voters of America have been bamboozled into doing the bidding of big corporations, all in the name of being a "true conservative". There is an old saying, something to the effect that "Unions were so successful in increasing their members' standard of living, that eventually, they actually thought they were republicans."Last edited by yesindeed; 02-28-2016 at 11:55 PM.Millermatic 211Everlast 200DX Thermal Arc 181iKlutch ST80i lunchbox stick welderLincoln Weld-Pak 100Century Stick welderPowermax 30 plasma cutterHenrob 2000 torchLogan 200 lathe (60 years old)Clausing 6339 Lathe (for sale)
Reply:Funny how that map clearly shows that the " pro labor" states , are presently the ones that have the worst economies(ex. California,NY,Illinois)and the highest cost of living, while the RTW states are the ones thriving the most during the past 20 years and with the lowest cost of living. If unions were really what they are suppose to be, I will be all for it, but as I said, most of them are a complete scam. Much like our government, it rewards someone that could be mediocre doing a job, just because it belongs to the union. While the guys that actually have the experience and skills and make the company moves, have to make all the work because they actually like to work. The reason at the present moment that people support unions is the same reasons democrats support welfare. It is just a model that keeps repeating itself.
Reply:Originally Posted by QCTechInspFunny how that map clearly shows that the " pro labor" states , are presently the ones that have the worst economies(ex. California,NY,Illinois)and the highest cost of living, while the RTW states are the ones thriving the most during the past 20 years and with the lowest cost of living.
Reply:Unions are just another big business, that will never make a hard choice that effects their bottom line.