OK, I know that a lot of people here might bust my chops for this. But, after always buying mostly American tools in the past. I have switched to some of the HF stuff. The money savings on the non-critical tools leaves more for when I need good tools. I think you can get good (or adequate) tools there if you are careful. For example; I have bought a lot of clamps there, when they were on sale. For a couple of bucks they do the same thing as the others costing five times as much and I can get five of them. I hink the savings helped me afford my MM175. The cheap chop saw seems to work well to get me started. And I saved enough that I won't feel bad when I upgrade to the Dewalt DW872 dry cut chop saw later. If I bought all American all the time, I would sit around a lot and wish I could perform certain operations. Well, anyway this is how I justify it.
Reply:i don't even think the chinese can screw up a clamp!!!StangnetShop Full Of Stuff. Joey
Reply:I got my bender and scroller there last week,not the one i really wanted but it will do the job till then. I dont see anything bad about getting stuff there unless maybe u got alot of money to burn!!!!!
Reply:They just moved into town here a couple of years ago. I don't know how I ever got by before.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:Originally posted by Sirarcalot If I bought all American all the time, I would sit around a lot and wish I could perform certain operations. Well, anyway this is how I justify it.
Reply:Thanks Cutter. I envy you guys that live where the used stuff is easier to come by. I agree that a lot of the old stuff is great. It's nice to recover some of the better stuff. For example, I saw your rusted Wilton vise thread. That was cool, as much for the process you went through as the nice vise you will end up with.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:Originally posted by Sirarcalot Thanks Cutter. I envy you guys that live where the used stuff is easier to come by. I agree that a lot of the old stuff is great. It's nice to recover some of the better stuff. For example, I saw your rusted Wilton vise thread. That was cool, as much for the process you went through as the nice vise you will end up with.
Reply:i saw that someone said that they doubted the chi com messing up clamps.... but i have the proof that when buying something like that your better off buying blessy brand i had gotten some c clamps for a job i was doing ... they were only a buck or 2 so i bought half a dozen and i was tacking up something and i hear this SNAP and the CAST had shattered and blew across the shop...... luckly no one hurt i had a problem with a blessy corner clamp made for wood and i thought i could use it for welding but alas no !!and it arced out and blew a hole in the clamp itself so i sentout a email to blessy and they sent me a check for what i paid for it ! not all tools are created equal, it seems that the older the better (like my old *** 10* wilton vise)
Reply:I can't comment on Harbour Frieght tools but up here we have Princess Auto and judging from Harbours website the tools and equipment looks much the same.I was in Princess Auto the other day, I can't use thier tools, I have a hard enough time with the bigger dollar tools lasting and holding up. Anyone use thier vice grips, the offshore label ones, I have probably 100 sets of vice grips and paying a big dollar for them, wondered how the offshore ones hold up, judging from the comments on the clamps, I would think not.Vices, I use a Wilton, very strong and bullet proof in my opinion.Sockets are all Mac or Snap on or equivalant. The offshore ones, I don't know if they hold up when using impact guns, real pain when you bust a socket and don't have one readily available to replace and your trying to get the job done. I broke my 15/16 deep 1/2 drive socket after well over ten years of use and this is a poplular socket that I use daily.I have seen other guys in the trade buy the cheaper lines of air tools, for the most part, they did not hold up very long, and were low on power as compared to the higher dollars ones. We have the compressors turned right up, most air at the end of the line runs 135 psi or more, higher volume capacity air lines as well. I was using my one inch impact to remove tires this morning, and still needed more air, went in and turned on another compressor, that gun rated for 1250 ft lbs torgue. Same thing with chains, buy the best chain, hooks ,clamps, still bust em. These opinions are derived from being in a proffessional truck shop where tools and equipment is put to the test daily. I can't tell a customer that I can't get the bolts out cause I have a lower line impact gun, simply won't do. I can say, I am worried I might break the stud, nut what ever it may be. I have bought lower line 1/4 air rivet gun, threw it out after four months and bought a pop rivet model for 1400.00 it works excellant.If I had a home shop, I would be all over such places like Harbour Frieght and Princess Auto, the prices are very good and good value for the buck for its intended purpose. I get a little tired of paying what I have to pay for tools/equipment, but to be in this business it has its costs. Thats why I suppose, if I have to install four huckbolts into a truck side panel and it takes me 15 minutes it costs 74.00, the tool to set those huck bolts is 3 grand.Even the quality of higher end tools especially Snap On, is dwindling. Watched this happen over the years, where once I would blindly just order it, I now check it over and do a little research before buying to make sure that it is of high quality as one would expect due to the higher cost.Besides it does not matter the type cost quality of your tools, its the fact, your off your *** not watching the idiot box and doing something and doing it the best way that you can/afford, my respect goes out to those guys.There's a method to the madness, disregard the method and the madness begins!!
Reply:I can sure understand your demand for top of the line, Big Rig. I would be the same way if I had your level of work to perform. As it is with me hoping that another 5 years or so is going to let me ease up from my already somewhat slothful schedule, I try to buy maybe the higher mid-level grade, better when I can get a deal. But Harbor Freight serves my purposes sometimes for a tool I may never need again. Of course, I almost never need heavy duty tools like you require.A buddy of mine nailed it pretty good 30 years ago when we were just beginning to appreciate quality vs get-by. He said I should either buy the very best I could find or buy the cheapest possible substitute so I could throw it away without flinching because I wasn't ever going to be happy with less than the best I knew about. Over the years I have sort of mellowed down to getting more satisfaction from matching the right tool to the demands of the job and I have learned that more power & more buttons is not necessarily the best approach. Using old hand tools I have found & restored often pleases me more than any other thing. I guess I've partly outgrown the Tim Allen syndrome. Oscar Wilde said it pretty well with, "My tastes are very simple: the very best will do nicely." But sometimes for us grunts & shade trees, that's just not practical.
Reply:I think I agree with everything that has been said. As I pointed out before, I used to buy all the good stuff. I have been working on cars as a hobby ever since I was in high school. I always upgrade if a tool breaks, if there is a reason to believe it may fail in some task that I have for it, or even if I just like having the better one in my tool box. There is something to be said about having pride in the tools that one does his job with.The only thing I wanted to point out is that my tools are segregated into groups based on how critical the use is. Sometimes I have been bitten with crap, and sometimes I have been pleasantly surprised with some items that have performed well.By the way, some of the major tool manufacturers are going offshore since the offshore plants are now capable of producing machinery to their specifications.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:While I'm at it, I might as well tell you about my experience with my drill press. I bought a Homier (touring tool salers) floor standing drill press for $100. I was pretty disappointed with the quality. I have since noticed the Homier is much lower quality than HF. Anyway, I had to hand grind the flashing off of all of the set screws so that the belts would tighten correctly. Then I got a new Jacobs chuck for $60, to keep the bits from slipping. Since then, I have had very good use out of this unit. However, I would recommend against Homier. The HF unit looks a lot better. I have heard that even the better brands come with a crappy chuck.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:I got a drill press about 13 years ago from a discount tool place in Tampa,$169.95 and i've really had good luck with it. It just now needing new belts,And if has drill alot of wholes,up 1 1/4 inch i mite add!! But it is time to get a new one so im looking at different ones.
Reply:My Homier Blast Cab is the same one sold by HF fro $200 more. A few add-ons and modifications and it works just as good as a $1500 Blast cabinet!I agree with Big-Rig's Sentiments, HF is a good starting point for the tool you would love to own but cant afford
Reply:I would like to comment on HF versus Homier. The Homier International and retail stores head quarters is just about 15 minutes from where I live. I am very fortuate to live where I can be at HF in 15 minutes (still in same town) or leave town to go to another for Homier (Huntington, IN). I have found that will a little modifications, must tools from both places are fantastic. I use the following rules in buying tools from either place.1. If the tool has no moving parts, will buy (screwdrivers)2. Be leary of powertools, especially ones that are only variable speed by a dial, not in the trigger.3. Clamps are a safe bet, knock off of vise grips are NOT!!!4. If your not building a church for a living, the money saved is great.5. If you need something, but can't afford the high quality units, go to Homier or HF to get you buy.I am a school teacher and computer consultant. All of my tools are strickly for hobby type stuff. Love to weld, machine, and woodwork as time allows. I grew up on a dairy farm where tools were very important. Most of the tools on the farm are your typical high dollar quality stuff. When I got married, I realized that I did not even own my own hammer. I had to give up a little pride and start buying some of the cheaper stuff.Just be careful,Jonathan
Reply:Big Rig, I have some of those vice grips from Princess Auto, and don't care too much for them. I've welded the threaded part together, as it would constantly split open where the screw tighten into. It just is not smooth like a real ones. They are handy in a pinch, but not to be used extensively. One is slightly larger than the common 10" real Vice Grips everyone has, and it has just been demoted to full time handle on a busted valve, and even for that it is a pain in the ***.Now real Vice Grips, on the other hand, are great. We lost one once, and found it a few years later in the field. I had been run over by the seeder a few times, and was bent. a heated and bent it back into shape, ran a tap through the threads, and it is good as new again.Now cheap C-clamps I really hate. The cheapest ones I will get are they ones they sell at Texas Tool. They do allright, I guess. I saw some 10 inch Wiltons there last week, on sale for 25 bucks a peice. Cutter, do you know how well they Chinese Wilton vices, like at Texas Tool, are for a vice? Are these too a Wilton rip off, or still made by them?
Reply:Vises and vise-grips are two specific things I avoid from Harbor Freight. No, wait, I'll add in their welders as well!If you are gonna' buy vise grips, make sure they say "Vise Grips" on them and are made in the US. The Chinese knockoffs are sorry, particularly the needlenose ones because the jaws have excessive sideways slop in relation to each other. Try to lock on a fastener or a clamp with their wobbly jaws and they pop right off it!Vises should be cast steel, not cast iron which all the Chinese ones I've seen are. Cast iron is good for 30 KSI tensile strength at best for high grade cast iron (which the Chinese stuff isn't, since it has slag and inclusions, which make it brittle). Cast steel, as used in the Wiltons, is good for 60 KSI. But I have gotten some good value stuff from HF. I have one of their $100 sliding 10" compound miter saws and over the years I've used the dogdoo out of it. Just put up new crown molding in the kitchen Saturday with it. Their biscuit cutter, routers and air tools and small oil-lubricated compressors are OK for the money also. Don't like their battery drills - that's a power tool that most people give heavy use - most HF models are single speed and lack HD batteries. They won't stand up to a DeWalt or Porter Cable. On a heavy use tool, low purchase cost just doesn't compensate for frustration.
Reply:Originally posted by Bolt Cutter, do you know how well they Chinese Wilton vices, like at Texas Tool, are for a vice? Are these too a Wilton rip off, or still made by them?
Reply:Is there an easy way to tell whether something is cast iron or cast steel. HF's 55# anvil is advertised as cast iron while their 110# anvil is advertised as cast steel. I've been thinking of buying the 110#, but not sure.Last edited by Sirarcalot; 04-20-2004 at 11:36 PM.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:sirarcalot, if you go this website: http://www.anvilfire.com/they've got quite a lot of info about import anvils.specifically this page about the HF Russian Anvils:http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/pr...nvil/index.htmLast edited by morpheus; 04-21-2004 at 05:13 PM.
Reply:I have the 110# anvil. It's made of cast steel. and seems to be ok for the money, it has a decent ring. Stay away from the cast iron ones.HF expert Jim Attached Images
Reply:I just bought one of those too, be careful of the edges, they are a little soft.... Still worth the money though.
Reply:I just bought a HF Vise, oh man am I bummed to hear you guys talk like this about it. I always ask advaice when buying metal fab tools and such from there, but i really thought a vise was a vise. Well we will see how bad it is, if the rain would stop and the weekends get longer I could start welding and such again.Mike 93 YJwww.moabjeeper.com
Reply:It's illuminating that the HF store has their clamps, locking pliers, and other cheaper tools out on the shelves, but the Vise Grips are in a locked cabinet! I've never seen Vise Grips in a locked cabinet, treated like diamond jewelry before. Apparently the money-starved wastrels that will shop HF are so poor they're jacking Vise Grips and Channel Locks.It's like "look, we're selling you these useless pieces of crap, which we know are so bad that when you walk by the Vise Grips we'll have to keep you from stealing them in envy". That says it all right there.95% of the CRAP in that store is CRAP. That said I just bought the bandsaw.
Reply:Originally posted by YJMike I just bought a HF Vise, oh man am I bummed to hear you guys talk like this about it. I always ask advaice when buying metal fab tools and such from there, but i really thought a vise was a vise. Well we will see how bad it is, if the rain would stop and the weekends get longer I could start welding and such again.Trust me I am empathize for the economics involved in your decisions. Just remember that your purchasing decisions are sending American (and Canadian) dollars overseas. And with your money also are going American and Canadian jobs. I go out of my way to purchase goods made in North America. It is not our Presidents and Prime Ministers that create jobs; it is our, yours and mine, purchasing decisions that do.Just a little food for thought.Last edited by Shade Tree Welder; 05-09-2004 at 04:23 PM.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:Shade Tree WelderI agree with you about keeping dollars here. It's just the almost impossible to do it for everything.For example: If I bought an American made sand blaster, would I be able to afford a MM175?If I bought an American made Chop Saw, would I be able to afford to by the American steel to build my project?If I bought an American made Chop Saw blades, would I be able to afford as many American hamburger pattys?I bought an American Olds, and at 70K miles the trans. blew. Now I have to drive my 3/4 ton truck to work and burn twice as much fuel. The Olds sits in the driveway untill I can afford to fix it.If I bought an American ball joint separator for my truck, would I be able to drive my truck yet? The HF separator was about $25, the American is over $200.If I bought an American made engine stand, would I be able to buy the American made parts to fix the engine?If I bought an American made bench grinder, would I be able to buy the American lumber to go into my project?Don't get me wrong, I want to buy American at every chance I get. We all just have to make decisions where the money must go and when.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:I don't like buying from the Chicoms for obvious reasons. And, I don't like buying from the French. I don't have much respect for the French because of the attitude towards the US and their sneaky back door deals with Saddam Husein. I think they stab us in the back every chance they get. I will be thinking hard about buying from the Canadians as long as they welcome our military deserters with open arms.If there is a way to buy American all of the time, I want to know about it.Last edited by Sirarcalot; 05-11-2004 at 05:42 PM.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:Originally posted by Sirarcalot And, I don't like buying from the French. I don't have much respect for the French because of the attitude towards the US and their sneaky back door deals with Saddam Husein.
Reply:Well i guess i just got lucky then!!i have about 20 vice clamps most are stell in good sharp.except the ones i took to work to use they loob bad but stell work good the lucky part it i got them back home in my shop got 2 chicom clamps to put on the truck been in use about 2 years now,And there stell in good shape!!
Reply:Sirarcalot,I do empathsize, neither of us are rich, and I do have a few items in my chop form china and india. Items that I did not need the high quality or item that saw very limited use. But I will give you one example. I was making concrete form baskets for a contractor a few year back a buddy and I were splitting the job due to its size (we ended up makeing just over 100 baskets.) The first day we bought a box of 10 chinese chop saw blades for ~$30 when we stopped for lunch we choose a restaurant neat the BOC store so we could by more blade all ten were gone. I bought 20 Norton blades (~$60 per box of 10) we cut all the rest of the steel for that job with those twenty blades and have a few left over. The steel cut faster and lasted longer. We each had nearly 200 hours each in that job at the end probably 100 to 150 hours of it at the chop saw. The american made material was much cheaper in the end to run. Now if you are not running production, chinese may be the way to go, I do understand. But I run production, just like Big Rig Guy you have to have the tools or you might as well stay on the porch.Oh and buy Ford, lololololRon ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:I absolutly agree that you need the best stuff for production work.And, my 3/4 ton truck is a 1997 Ford F250 Powerstroke.As a matter of fact, maybe this is a good time to tell you about one of my small welding projects (very small). When I changed the ball joints, I broke a small retaining ring in one of the automatic hubs. I drove all over town to find one with no success. The Ford dealership said the only way to get the part was with a $75 dollar kit. So, I ended up welding the ring together with a small MAPP gas torch and using a file to bring the dimensions back to original. It worked like a charm.I used to work for a mechanic that always said "Anybody can change the part, but it takes a mechanic to fix the old one".Last edited by Sirarcalot; 05-12-2004 at 12:12 AM.MM175Lincoln AC225 Tombstone
Reply:Hey good choice in the Truck I have an F-350 powerstroke, great truck. Oh I did't mention our mutual dislike for the frenchy frogs earlier. My dislike started for them back in the mid eighties when we flew a Navy strike mission against Kadafi in Lybia. They did not allow us the use of their airspace and the pilot had to fly around Spain and throught Gibraltar, if I remember right is was 11 hours each was from England. We lost two pilots on that mission but the pilots we lost completed their bombing runs first and then had to fly back out with Lybian pilots on their ***. May if they had not been exhausted from flying damn near 12 hours they would probably still be alive today. And the frog continue to piss me off don't even get me started on the Iraq **** (and in ignoring the UN trade sanctions don't forget the company they kept with Germany, China and Russia), next time Germany invades Frogland, that is if Germany really want the piss ants, let 'em have 'em.Sorry for the digression.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply
on't worry about it Shade, when yer right , yer right. I have a French MAS rifle in my collection that has never been fired and only dropped once! "All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"
Reply:1911,I only have long guns, not much of a pistol enthusiast, but if I ever to get a pistol it will be a 1911.Later,RonRon ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply
owerJOKES?????I'd rather be CUMMIN than STROKIN!
Reply:Originally posted by Banzaitoyota PowerJOKES?????I'd rather be CUMMIN than STROKIN!
Reply:I dont care for the newer trucks at all. I run a first gen, bought it cheap and performed the neccasary repairs. And with all the trouble Ford is having with the 6.0 PSD's I dont see why people keep going back to them?
Reply:I heard about the new engine having problem my 7.3l is running strong.LaterRon ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:What problems is ford having with the 6.0's. My Son has one in his new F350, and hasn't had any problems yet.
Reply:I am not completely sure, heard it had to deal with the injectors. BT you hear anything different.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:The new injectors had a batch with defective/improperly designed seals: caused fuel washout and increased fuel dilution of the oil.Another one was a batch of improperly cleaned blocks from the foundry/ Dealers were doing complete engine replacements.
Reply:Wasn't it Ford that has an advertising slogan "QUALITY IS JOB NONE!" (or something like that)?
Reply:I personally by nothing but the best I can find for something I inted to use often or in a high stress enviorment. However for something I will use only a few times a year I will go cheap. For example I needed a steering wheel puller. It doesn't get much use maybe 6 times a year. I bought an HF. However all my wrenches (excpet my Gear Wrenches), sockets, air tools, screw drivers, rachets you get the idea are snap on.
Reply:You guys do know that Ford doesn't make a Diesel engine. The 7.3 liter Power Stroke is acctually a Interanational T444E and the Power Stroke 6.0 liter is acctually a International VT365.
Reply:In all the different forums I have been to, the common thread for most is the HF blasting. I would like quality tools, but as a hobbyist, many are HF or nothing. My son is a Craftsman or die type, and he bought me a drill press. Except for the color and name, it is identical to the HF drill press for much less, right down to the "made in china" label. I know these tools are not the top of the line, and if I was using them regularly in a business, I would not buy HF, particularly anything with a motor; but for my occasional use, they are great. I burn up a tool now and then, but replace it when the item goes on sale, and normally can buy 2-4 of the HF before I reach the price of the name brand.Almost all my angle grinders, sandblaster, cut off saw, and flux welder are HF; as well as a couple of drills, a dremel-type tool, and my 6 inch grinder. Total price on these mentioned is less than $250.00 total spent.I have a shop full of tools, and through HF have been able to do so for the cost of just two or three name brand items.
Reply:Got to agree with you on some of your comments. I had a Black and Decker 4 1/2" in Industrial grinder 120volt ac/dc. It burned up a few years back. To replace it would have cost about $80. Saw one at HF that was identical to the tee in everything except for the color, ac/dc capable, paddle switch, etc., matter of fact, the parts interchanged between the two, back and forth. How do I know this? I bought it at a $45 savings compared to the Black and Decker. Still use it and its older in usage than the B&D I replaced. Got lucky I guess. But I do watch what I buy, how and how often I will use what I buy from there.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter Victor O/A
Reply:I recently got 20 rolls of electrical tape and Metric and SAE allen wrenches from there..
Reply:I would like to say I am some what of a Harbor Freight fan. I did have bad luck with a drill press which I returned because the chuck wobbled. I got a second and it did the same thing and returned that.Some things are crap at harbor freight. I am a craftsman hand tool person myself, but if you need a cheap stuff like cutting discs, metal blades or a disposable tool get it there. I would not recommend anything electric. I tried the saws all deal they had there and could not even cut .083 without bogging the saw down. I retured that. If you need a tool and plan to hang on to it, they buy quality, otherwise harbor freight can get you going for the short haul.
Reply:I agree. And I have to admit that I spend too much time at Harbor Freight or browsing their catalogs to see what new products they have for sell or which items they have put a sale price on! I usually buy expendable stuff from there such as grinding discs, electric tape and terminals, teflon tape, mig wire, tie wraps, etc. when they put them on sale.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter Victor O/A
