External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:44:31 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for External Tig Gas Solenoid - TA211i

So I have ordered a TA211i, but there is one thing that bugs me about the unit.  There is no gas solenoid for the tig side.  Gotta use the hand valve to control gas on and off.  It is not a huge issue I guess, but an annoyance and possible to drain a tank of Argon if you forget.I am considering building an external gas solenoid box for it.  I looked at the control logic for the remote control 8-pin connector.  It looks like I could hijack the open/close switch in the torch or foot pedal and use it to control relays and the solenoid on my end.  Send the signal into the machine from a relay in my box.  It wouldnt be too difficult to even give it an adjustable post flow with an off delay relay controlling the solenoid.  I guess it would require a bit more work to make it 2t/4t, but 2t only would be simple and non issue if using the pedal.Is this something anyone has done before?  It wouldn't require any modifications to the machine or torch.  Just add in a short plug set in between the remote control and the machine.  Could be made to work for any machine with remote control and no gas solenoid.Thoughts?Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Great question. .......looking forward to responses!
Reply:Should have just bought the 252i then.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Somebody should make this.  If I were designing it, I would have it sense current by wrapping a coil around the cable.  No need to tap into the switch.
Reply:I thought about the ct relay but the signal is only 15vdc and very low wattage. Also, you have the amp control signal running through the same cable so your signals would interfere.I am figuring it at about $100 to build one depending on the solenoid and how I enclose it all.  As far as the 252, dual voltage is a requirement for me.  Besides, I dont have the money to spend $1k to fix a $100 problem. Can't hide that kind of money. I think I will put together a test unit and maybe do a write up on it. Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Well you should wait. The 252i with dual voltage is coming out shortly...The valve isn't that bad, you get used to it. I have it on my 141i.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Not familiar with the unit, but if it has a contactor in it you should be able to tap into what ever triggers it and use that to activate your solenoid.  You can get small solenoids in about any voltage that you would find inside your machine and small ones are usually only aroune $35-45.
Reply:I wired in and installed a 12 volt gas solenoid and a 12 volt water solenoid. so that I could run tap water for cooling.  I did have to wire in a 12 volt transformer to run them both.  they come on when my contactor comes on.  they neither one come on when I am using just the reguler rod holder.  Mac
Reply:I was looking for the same kind of setup for my 181. Wonder if there's any way to adapt the existing solenoid that's in the machine now for the mig?......Mike
Reply:How are you going to factor in a delay for post flow on both gas and water?You really want neither turning off immediately when the arc is broken.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:That sounds like it works well tool maker.  My goal is something external that can be put on or off at any time with no change to the machine.The design I have in mind will work for the 181 and 141 as well.Post flow is pretty easy.  It is just an off delay relay.  Siemens makes one that is adjustable .5s to 60m.Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:An additional water tap water cooling is a simple add on as well.I should have a prototype within a week if the connectors come in quickly. Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWell you should wait. The 252i with dual voltage is coming out shortly...The valve isn't that bad, you get used to it. I have it on my 141i.
Reply:I should have a prototype within a week if the connectors come in quickly.
Reply:Another quick note on this as far as the torch goes.  I have seen a lot of people complain about the size of the 26V so i called up the TA to ask about the 17V from the 141i/181i.  I was thinking it may be the wrong dinse connector.  Turns out their 17V works, just got to keep the amps low.  Welders Supply called me when i placed the order to say I had messed up.Anyway, all the parts are ordered.  Prototype may cost a few bucks more than I was thinking because of the cost of the off delay relay and shipping.  Gonna power the solenoid from an external 120VAC source.  A lot easier than trying to pull the power out of the welder and nothing to void the warranty.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255How are you going to factor in a delay for post flow on both gas and water?
Reply:Gonna power the solenoid from an external 120VAC source
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanWater?  Is that even necessary?  I switch on the pump on my cooler when I open the valve on my argon cylinder.  I switch it off when I close the valve.  There's really no harm in letting it run on and on.Yes, a 26 torch is huge.  But so is a 17.  I used to have a 17.  Now that I moved to water cooling and a 20, I can't believe I was happy with the 17.
Reply:Ive been using one of these for post flow on my 330 AB/P for a while now with no issues     http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-110VAC-...item2a36921ef9
Reply:So better late than never.  Finally got back from a bunch of unplanned travel and got to work on this.It works great actually.  I tried it first with it all sitting about in pieces.  Now I am trying to finish it out a little better.  Here are some pics and what I did.  Please forgive the ugly welds.  I have been letting the intern try his hand at welding when it doesn't matter for anything.First, I got the plugs needed to add my solenoid as an extra loop.  2wires from each each end go to my relays, then 2 wires run straight through for the foot pedal amp control.  One end plugs into the remote, one into the machine.At my relays, I have two relays.  Both are actuated by the switch portion of the foot pedal or hand switch.  I am using 120 VAC through the switch to power both relays on at the same time.  The plain relay on the right is used as a dry contact for the welder and gives the welder exactly the same electrical configuration as the remote switch would.  The relay on the left is the time delay.  When you let off the remote switch, it has a 1s to 100h adjustable delayed off.  I know I don't need that much post flow, but got it on close out for cheap.Finally, basic gas solenoid that is powered by the off delay relay and is now the tig solenoid.What I like about it is that I can simply pull it out of the loop and use the welder exactly as it came from TA.   It operates as close to an internal solenoid as possible with absolutely no modifications required to the welder.I will post a video of it sometime if I can ever figure out how.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Awesome, any chance you'd have a schematic and maybe even a parts list :-),  where do you pull the 120V from, the actual origonal control circuit isn't 120....is it? I like the fact that there's nothing messed with on the machine.....Mike
Reply:I can try to put some of that together.  The 120 is a separate source. Have to plug it in.  I am waiting on a small fuse terminal I ordered for incomming feed. Not totally necessary but a good idea. Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:So the origonal switches on both is controlling 120V? I'm not sure if I like that idea since it wasn't designed for that, nor was the insulation or wire. Not sure  (it's been awhile since I've used it), but isn't the switch in the actual torch a momentary contact or is it a push on push off....Mike
Reply:The switch on the torch or foot pedal are controlling it.  Even the cheapest of wire is still 300vac rated. I will look at the switch but it has had no issues. Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Also, it is 50ma starting current and 5ma hold on the relays.  The solenoid is powered by the relays that are rated for 15ASent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX TigrunnerDamn that came out better than I thought. Any room to mount that inside the welder?Great work.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Thanks.There may be room but I dont think I am gonna even look at it until the warranty is up. Just not worth it when any time I take it off the cart to weld I am doing stick.  Sent from my SPH-L900 using TapatalkMultimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:The lack of a TIG gas soleniod and being made in China is what made me go with a Multimatic 200.
Reply:Took a look at the switches.  The one in the torch is a switch in a circuit board.  No ratings listed on it, but the spacings between uninsulated conductors meet UL requirements for 120VAC in industrial controls at least.  It is momentary which means my solenoid will on work in 2T mode.   If this were an issue to me, I could simply add in an alternating state relay to the mix and make it handle the 4T functions.  Not hard, but I dont see the need for my uses.As for the TA foot pedal, it is a 250VAC; 15A / 1/2HP rated switch.  I think it can handle the 100mA just fine.  I designed the controls around using the foot pedal.  As for the Multimatic 200, I could not justify another 1K for a tig solenoid and a little more portability.  Especially when it brings a much lower duty cycle along with it.  Dont get me wrong, I think the Multimatic 200 is awesome and would love to have one.  It is just not practical at all with my current needs and budget.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:I did a little different setup. I used a 120 VAC gas solenoid and a foot pedal. I don't like messing with the factory wiring in the welder. I use this welder (Thermal Arc 181I) with a finger switch only. With the pedal pre-flow and post-flow are what ever I want. All told I have about $40 in this!
Reply:Nice how do you like it so far?Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo.  Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:N2......works well......you cam use this with a tig pedal.....but you need to use both feet.