I'm welding 2x2 angle iron 3/16 thick to a stringer. The stringer is 6x6 and 1/4 thick. It will be a single stringer angle on both sides. How much weld should I put on the angle? Two sections of 2" on the top and bottom? I understand "the top is doing all the work". Attached ImagesDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:I would at least wrap around both ends. I've seen professionally done versions where they had no more than an inch on the top of each end. I would run a bit more. No one has ever accused me of under building...
Reply:two 2" on top and bottom like you said.It will not move.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thank guysDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Think in terms of bolts. How many bolts would you put on that to hold it together. You wouldn't put 8 bolts on each angle would ya. 3 short welds on each side of these treads. Only addition(later in the build) was a nose piece to take weight at the face of the tread.New steps, and landing. These take way more abuse than what your building.Sometimes less is more.In contrast...
...I ran full length welds on the loader...
.totally different animal, with different loading (and weather sealing considerations). Size your welds according to the work they have to do.If in doubt on a fillet...
...figure your square inches of weld, considering Ksi strength of the filler, and factor the strength at 30%. The reason you down spec a fillet is due to the fact it's loaded in shear.
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ave,The yield / ultimate shear stress capacity on a 1" fillet weld would surprise you... Couple years ago I got a small contract job to build some log beam supports for an owner of an architectural / engineering company; his "Engineers" required me to do full seam welds on 6" channel to 1/4" plate. I told him his "engineers" were nuts. I suggested stitch welds and showed him the calculations. Enuf said...Last edited by Renaissance1; 04-13-2019 at 12:11 PM.Self-sufficient...to the end...Engineer and build it allMiller CST280ESAB EMP 235AbeneRockwellAtlasFlukeand the list goes on....
Reply:So, those are clips to hold treads? The top doesn't do all the work. If you want a set of step that flex less, then you will wrap and weld down the sides. The sides do more work than just the top? The just resist the forces of freezing water that seep into the void behind that angle. If exterior, a 2" weld on top middle, down both sides and caulk the void and a pitched tread for water runoff.Exterior stairs undergo environmental stress too. Ice, salt and water will destroy them.Last edited by tapwelder; 04-13-2019 at 12:43 PM.
Reply:ReebsIf you can - back up the train. What you are doing is architecture, not farmer welding.You only need two welds - both on the bias, parallel with the stair stringer - not on the horizontals.Bob/miter/cut - both flanges of the angle-iron in the rear.The flat flange - bob at 45° with at least a 5/8" perpendicular run from the heel of the angle [for looks]. The vertical flange - bob parallel with the raise/run of the stringer. Cut it short - a weld bead-width back from the tube radius shoulder for the bead to lay into.This provides all of the weld strength you need - and the welds are nearly invisible = The big money . . .HTH -Opus
Reply:Thanks guys. I will snap some pictures in a few hours.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1two 2" on top and bottom like you said.It will not move.
Reply:Now my question is, what's the sequence/how to on those welds?? Heating those corners on that tube is right where I'd put the heat if I wanted to make a banana out of it. Do one side of one step then jump right away to the other side same step maybe?? Don't know that I would do all on one side then flip it and do the other hoping I'd cure the warpage on the return trip. Dunno. I'd spend a week thinking about it I know that. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyNow my question is, what's the sequence/how to on those welds?? Heating those corners on that tube is right where I'd put the heat if I wanted to make a banana out of it. Do one side of one step then jump right away to the other side same step maybe?? Don't know that I would do all on one side then flip it and do the other hoping I'd cure the warpage on the return trip. Dunno. I'd spend a week thinking about it I know that.
Reply:Far as architectural goes. Don't care whether it's destined for The Guggenheim, or is just gonna be seen by the hogs...………...idea of a stairway is to keep the occupants above ground (safely)Eggheads might want to make their ascent to the Heavens on a gossamer thread, but they're gonna come looking for the builder when they wind up on their azzes, in a pile on the floor A few visible welds ain't gonna spoil the soup.
Reply:farmersammm Originally Posted by farmersammmA few visible welds ain't gonna spoil the soup.
Reply:Visible welds are an asset to many, just depends on the beholder. Like a watch many people want to see the craftsmanship behind the watch face. People love hand crafted industrial items these days, and visible, well done welds tend to convey strength. Now if it was a guitar, the craftsmanship is in hiding the building technique and making it look like it was born whole, no matter how complex.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmFar as architectural goes. Don't care whether it's destined for The Guggenheim, or is just gonna be seen by the hogs...
...idea of a stairway is to keep the occupants above ground (safely)Eggheads might want to make their ascent to the Heavens on a gossamer thread, but they're gonna come looking for the builder when they wind up on their azzes, in a pile on the floor A few visible welds ain't gonna spoil the soup.
Reply:I just expect to straighten them when I build stringers. It won't be terribly warped at 6 inch tube. It might not even be noticeable in something under 10 feet. I did 4 sets similar to those for a house, I tacked them back to back and welded the clip on, though only had one clip stringer and only welded the top. I was not impressed with the amount of minimal amount of warpage for the effort. I just expect to flame straighten now.
Reply:Steps are done and all are happy. I talked to an engineer before my original post he call calculated something like an two 1.5" welds each end top and bottom was fine, I decided to go with two 2.5" top and bottom, the 1.5" looked too small. Additionally I ran a 3.4" weld on the face. Daddy I agree over weld.Tappwelder and Opus you are 100% correct. I stated it incorrectly. I planned to run the weld down the face. I think I stared at this thing so long I started forgetting what I was looking at. Sandy Yes the weld sequence in important. When I start to weld a big layout like this I set everything in order (and clear a path) so I can jump around fast.Slowbus This guy wants to see the welds. Which I like.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Here are some pictures Attached ImagesDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:The 1/2 bolts are for decoration.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Reebs Originally Posted by Reebs . . . are for decoration.
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ooks like it came out nice and straight, great job on your first stringer. What are they going to use for the treads? Also, what's with the open wheel car in the back?
Reply:Stairs look good but I really want to know is how in the hell did you get that car down there?Owner of Fast Leroy's Bar and GrillLiquor up Front, Poker in the Rear
Reply:Originally Posted by Fast LeroyStairs look good but I really want to know is how in the hell did you get that car down there?
Reply:Originally Posted by SlowBluesLooks like it came out nice and straight, great job on your first stringer. What are they going to use for the treads? Also, what's with the open wheel car in the back?That is an indy car from the 1980's by the sponsorship on the wing. I would like to have the origin and manufacturer. Is there a driver listed on it anywhere? Might be an ilmor short pushrod engine or a cosworth. Might even be from the cart era.RegardsDave
Reply:I am with Opus on this. If you are going to use bolt heads, at least dress them up with some nice ones from the site he suggested.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:I agree, save the boltheads for under the treads maybe, if going for an industrial look
Reply:The customer picked the bolts. He handed them to me. He wanted the industrial look. He also wanted to see some of the welds. He originally was going to drill and tap every hole for the steps an the 1/2 bolts was going to be used as the only means of holding the steps to the stringer. He put 4 steps on and was having trouble with the spacing so he called me. I have done a lot of work for this guy and he likes the industrial look.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
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ave,Nice work. Evidently your "Engineer" calculated the welding stress based on ????? thousands of pounds??? Anyway, glad I am not paying for it. Some people have more money than brains...Self-sufficient...to the end...Engineer and build it allMiller CST280ESAB EMP 235AbeneRockwellAtlasFlukeand the list goes on....
Reply:Overbuild everything! It would be interesting to see what it would take to bend/snap/break a step off of the stringer. I wish I would have charged him more money, he has a bunch.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
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OL have you seen the amount of weld on most aftermarket, off road suspension components? I sincerely doubt those welds are in any danger of ever failing unless due to operator/unforeseen material defects. I wouldn't drive a tank down those stairs but i'd have no problem taking a 900 lb GF named linde down them, haha. Overbuilding is always a good idea unless it's a cascading failure situation, as is starting high quote wise! I'm pretty sure it took the engineer all of 10 mins to enter the info into the program of his choice and even play with the amount of weld to find an acceptable safety factor.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlowBluesLOL have you seen the amount of weld on most aftermarket, off road suspension components?
Reply:Many minimize the welds to prevent distortion and speed things up on the production line. In a very, very simplified manner it basically boils down to amount of cross sectional material thickness, if you do the math on a piece of random steel and find it has 4 square inches total at the cross section, then 4 square inches of total weld area should have about equal strength (*usually* more due to the higher tensile strength of weld deposits). Basically on those stairs the angle iron will buckle far, far before the weld amount even comes into play. Again extremely simplified explanation as you can imagine all the factors that come into play, That being said I usually overbuild when i can, but I've been bitten on the @$$ doing that too, chasing down failure points. The earlier post of "think how many/what size bolts it would take to get the job done" was great advice, two 1/2 inch bolts would keep each of those angle iron pieces happy and in place forever, that's less than 1 inch squared of material for the cross section of the 2 bolts per angle iron.Last edited by SlowBlues; 04-16-2019 at 09:25 PM.
Reply:Reebs, I got a couple questions:- How did you insure the position and orientation of each piece of angle iron to make sure they align on both sides and have the same correct angle each time? Did you just manually placed each piece measuring and using an angle finder or made some kind of jig? Curious to know!- Any chance of getting a picture when finished? Is it going to have any railing?Great job BTW.Mikel
Reply:MikelThank you I tacked the first step based on the angle the stringer bottom end was cut at, 41 degrees. Then made a spacer/jig to set the distance between the steps. The stringer was laying laying on my welding table it was never in place during the build. Once i flipped it over I measured from the base and did the same thing. Please note I measured and used squares constantly making sure everything was spaced properly. It took me a long time, the big guys would have been long before me.I hope to get pictures its in the owners hands now. Thanks again. I was so glad to get this out of my garage, it took up so much roomDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Reebs, stairs came out beautiful. Thanks for showing off. Is the ceiling sloped or does it just look sloped in your pic?
Reply:Insaneride, Im not sure about the ceiling. I was in for just a second to pick up the stringer. It might be, my eyes fixed on the open wheel car.lolDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:This had to be on the punch listIt's probably the most glaring reason I hate to work with angle iron. It's weak as all getout. Little impact, and it bends. Not truly strong in any loading plane.
Reply:FarmersammWhat do you mean?Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Those treads look out of alignment a bit lol, there's always one mistake and it'll be the only thing you see everytime you look at the project (could be the camera angle though? center of a wide/fisheye lens deal). And I agree with angle iron being bad for many things but it is great for others, hard to beat for a shelf or cabinet type application.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmThis had to be on the punch listIt's probably the most glaring reason I hate to work with angle iron. It's weak as all getout. Little impact, and it bends. Not truly strong in any loading plane.
Reply:They are not out of alignment. I just spoke to the home owner. Proof read next time ReberDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
