Complete newbie question

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Hi everyone - I just joined the forum so I can ask this question. If this is the wrong place for this question, please let me know, or if there is another website that is better to ask on, please let me know that as well.My question may be more related to steel fabrication that welding..but I imagine there is some overlap?I have an idea for a product I want to make. Without giving away too much specifics, I'll just say it's a BBQ-related accessory, which would need to be able to withstand charcoal heat levels. I have never worked with steel before - all I have is some design ideas in my head for how this product would look and work. I don't have any idea of how I would even begin to take this product from the idea stage, to something that is marketable in some way. I know that before even reaching that stage, I would need to be able to make a few prototypes of the product, and probably go through a few iterations of design changes in the process. I don't have any steel or metal working equipment, but would be willing to invest a bit of money if it would let me create some prototypes, but I don't even know where to begin.Should I draw something first, or create a prototype out of paper, and then find a local fabrication shop to cut and create it for me? I imagine that these types of places are not set up to just product one at a time. This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I haven't taken any steps forward because I don't even know how to start. Does anyone have any advice to share?Thanks!W
Reply:Standard A36 steel would be good to start.probably the cheapest  for prototype.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Buy a HH210 wire feed to start.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Are you in America?  Do you want to specialize in built and made in America “ insert your country here “ or are you looking to maximize profit and made in China is what you would consider?If you plan to have the materials and labor outsourced then putting the idea to prints is a good place to start.  If you want to be hands on all done in house with you calling all the shots from purchasing to sales then you might look into either tool and die punch presses or some type of cutting machine like plasma, water jet or laser for precision cutting. With out knowing a lot about the idea or manufacturing plans it makes it harder to pin point viable suggestions for the best solution relating to your idea/s.  If you have multiple pieces that need to be cut and welded up have different places cut out the pieces and weld them up if required to keep the idea top secret.  If any one fab shop does all of the fabrication then the cat is out of the bag and is no longer a secret.lets start with is the idea going to be hand held or part of a permanent structure.  This info may dictate the final weight the product can or should weigh for successful marketing.  Can a small petite woman use the product?  Making the product simple yet effective to use can go a long way with marketing as well as having a good looking long lasting build quality.  Do you want to bang them out by numbers but build quality is not of concern meaning they can be had cheaply at any Walmart Target or big box store.  Lots to think of when loosing sleep over all things to consider.some products can be manufactured with out any welding involved, it just depends on the product.  Hand held or add on to part of a permanent structure?Anyone can steal your idea with out a patent.  The patent procedure can be a real pita.  Is the idea worth the stress and effort required to bring it to market?Last edited by N2 Welding; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:37 PM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo.  Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Don't invest in any tools or materials yet.Draw the idea out on paper. If the product is made from sheets of metal, then think about making a prototype  from cardboard or heavy card stock like poster board. You can use that to see if the dimensions are close. Use a glue gun to put the pieces together. Standard poster board is about 18-20 gauge steel. Cardboard is about 1/8" thick. If the product has rods, bars, square stock, etc, you can get some wooden dowels or various shapes from the hardware store. Make your mock up using readily available materials that you get and modify at home. Once you are happy with the look and feel of the prototype, make detailed drawings. Then stop by a local metal shop or fab shop and talk to them about making a one of a kind. It wont be cheap, but the more details you can give them, the better since they wont spend time designing it.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Ok - so without giving away what my specific idea is, I can say that the general concept is something similar to this product, which is already being sold. I'm not trying to copy their design - mine is similar in that it's also a BBQ accessory, but with a different design and purpose. Imagine this product but in a different shape to start. I don't really know anything about sheet metal, but it looks like something that should be able to be built with minimal tools? I think my design is slightly more complex than this one but not much. This certainly seems like something I could produce with cardboard or thick paper as a first pass prototype, but I would quickly need a metal version of it in order to be able to test it. Does this info help?


Reply:Can post a drawing on what you talking?Dave

Originally Posted by WilliamO

Hi everyone - I just joined the forum so I can ask this question. If this is the wrong place for this question, please let me know, or if there is another website that is better to ask on, please let me know that as well.My question may be more related to steel fabrication that welding..but I imagine there is some overlap?I have an idea for a product I want to make. Without giving away too much specifics, I'll just say it's a BBQ-related accessory, which would need to be able to withstand charcoal heat levels. I have never worked with steel before - all I have is some design ideas in my head for how this product would look and work. I don't have any idea of how I would even begin to take this product from the idea stage, to something that is marketable in some way. I know that before even reaching that stage, I would need to be able to make a few prototypes of the product, and probably go through a few iterations of design changes in the process. I don't have any steel or metal working equipment, but would be willing to invest a bit of money if it would let me create some prototypes, but I don't even know where to begin.Should I draw something first, or create a prototype out of paper, and then find a local fabrication shop to cut and create it for me? I imagine that these types of places are not set up to just product one at a time. This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I haven't taken any steps forward because I don't even know how to start. Does anyone have any advice to share?Thanks!W
Reply:

Originally Posted by WilliamO

Ok - so without giving away what my specific idea is, I can say that the general concept is something similar to this product, which is already being sold. I'm not trying to copy their design - mine is similar in that it's also a BBQ accessory, but with a different design and purpose. Imagine this product but in a different shape to start. I don't really know anything about sheet metal, but it looks like something that should be able to be built with minimal tools? I think my design is slightly more complex than this one but not much. This certainly seems like something I could produce with cardboard or thick paper as a first pass prototype, but I would quickly need a metal version of it in order to be able to test it. Does this info help?


Reply:Is this product coming in contact with food? Are there regulations involved that would change your selection of materials?... eg, it may have to be stainless steel. Making something for your own use can be a different story from making an item to sell into the market...The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:

Originally Posted by whtbaron

Is this product coming in contact with food? Are there regulations involved that would change your selection of materials?... eg, it may have to be stainless steel. Making something for your own use can be a different story from making an item to sell into the market...
Reply:To the OP, if you go to an HVAC company, make sure you tell them it can't be out of galvanized metal. If that gets too hot or is contact with charcoal, it may off gas or melt the Zinc and other coatings. From a safety perspective,  your final item may need to be out of stainless steel or something that won't off gas. Stainless may warp when it gets too hot so beware of that as well. If possible,  put the prototype in place, heat it, then check the temp. That will help choose the material.  Check the example you posted and determine what that is made from. Or check items used the same way as your new product Sent from my SM-G996U using TapatalkLast edited by psacustomcreations; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:18 AM.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:This is a video on a technique to create the cone shape. Could be useful with heavy paper.Yeswelder MIG-205DS(3) Angle Grinders at the ReadyJust a hobbyist trying to improve
Reply:Thanks everyone - some great tips here. I will start off playing with a cardboard or paper version and then see if I can find an HVAC guy to help me out with the next stage. Note - the product won't come in direct contact with food, but will be touching the charcoal, so it would have to be a metal that could withstand constant high temps - and ideally not emit any sort of toxic gases. This is all great advice to get me started. Will post back if I ever take it to the next level.
Reply:You should still buy a 210.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by Sberry

You should still buy a 210.
Reply:stainless steel will last longer, and be nicer to deal with, but plain steel will do the job just fine, especially for a prototype. You'll need to find a sheet metal workshop, as above, HVAC companies have good sheetmetal guys but depending on area, shop etc, they might not want to bother with one-offs.That sort of thing could easily be whipped up in half a day by a sheetmetal fabricator. I see the example you gave is made from stainless steel, that might give you an indication of which material would be best...Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Shootr

This is a video on a technique to create the cone shape. Could be useful with heavy paper.