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Continued from a previously deleted thread... I purchased a '97 Migmaster 250 for $75 that was considered JUNK by the previous owner because the cost to repair was estimated at almost $900. The repair facility said it needed a Mig Gun, Contactor, Relay, New 220 volt NEMA 6/50 plug and over $400 in labor to do the work needed to replace and install all of those parts over five years ago. So I took a chance knowing this is an old school Transformer based Welder and not much could go wrong with it. That gamble paid off and after installing a plug and whip I am happy to say that I have a working machine. Now all I have to do is get all the bugs worked out and learn how to use it to it's full potential. The Machine was damaged on the front near the Euro gun port. It was not noticeable when I looked at it during my initial inspection prior to purchasing the unit. Since it did not have a power plug or gun I asked the seller if I could open it up and take a look under the hood. They let me and all looked good including the wire feed speed board. So I paid them the agreed price of $75.00 and went home a happy camper.Fast forward a couple of weeks from the purchase date and the list of issues has been narrowed down a bit. So far No Contactor or Relay's are needed as far as I can tell. It was missing the spool gun gas port plug which I replaced with a cheap $1.49 Propane Tank Plug. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Propane-Tan...72.m2749.l2649 I put a ESAB Gun Master 250 15' gun on the machine and started using it but was having feeding issues. So I pulled the wire feed assembly apart to find out that their was a bent tube that holds the guide tubes in place. The machine had a gun liner in place of the factory guide tube. So I purchased a guide tube and it would not go in the machine properly with out encountering substantial resistance. This is how I discovered the bent part and that the front face of the machine was tweaked a bit. I was able to use a 20 Ton press to straiten the thick Copper tube that holds the guide tube in place between the drive rollers and Mig gun liner. I also had to push the face back out a bit so the drive system and mig gun would all line up properly with out making the drive roll housing flex from it all being bent out of shape when attempting tightening it all back up.I am pretty sure I have the feeding issues under control. Now I have to figure out how to dial in the arc or determine if there is other issues that cause the arc to not be as clean and crisp as it should be.I am hoping other members here that have this machine can tell me some of the settings used for different wire gauges and material thicknesses.
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Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-01-2018 at 02:21 AM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Before it was ESAB, it was sold under the Ltec brand. Here are some pic of mine I had on photobucket.
Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:The L-Tec looks identical other than color.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:It is identical, let's see if we can get WW to host the owner's manual on their server should others need it in the future. https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e3bf...ster%20250.pdfHere is the ST23A spoolgun manual. Made buy Profax/lenco https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e474...n%20manual.pdfLast edited by soutthpaw; 04-01-2018 at 09:53 AM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Setting a mig doesn't really change, set wire feed speed based on amps needed. Dial voltage to make it run right.This pic from miller shows the steps pretty good. Snip wire flush, use a 6 second trigger pull, measure and multiply by 10. Select coarse voltage range, dial it in with fine control knob. Welding voltage can easily be measured at this stage with a normal multi-meter. (not open circuit voltage, measure welding volts)
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw
It is identical, let's see if we can get WW to host the owner's manual on their server should others need it in the future. https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e3bf...ster%20250.pdfHere is the ST23A spoolgun manual. Made buy Profax/lenco https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e474...n%20manual.pdf
Reply:On mine I found the wire speed control was not totally linear, so I ran 15 seconds of wire at each mark, measured the wire length it put out and multiplied by 4 then write the number on the machine. Release the tensioner and rewind/ repeat.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw
It is identical, let's see if we can get WW to host the owner's manual on their server should others need it in the future. https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e3bf...ster%20250.pdfHere is the ST23A spoolgun manual. Made buy Profax/lenco https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ac0e474...n%20manual.pdf
Reply:Yeah Profax AEC 100 or 200. They are USA made and based, if you call them, you are usually connected directly to a live person who is pretty knowledgeable about the products. I was thinking you could probably make one of the cheaper guns work, all you need is to power the gun motor and have a trigger to close the contactors in the machine.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Thank you for the manuals Tiger, Do you know if Profax/Lenco used another name or model number for the ST23A spoolgun?The image is not working for some reason Dave. Oh and thank you for the miller adjustment instructions. I will have to give that a try.I also have to make me a chart for wire speeds. I know wide open is suppose to be 650 Im and is pretty close with a few tests I performed. The only thing that bugs me about the wire feed speed settings is the face plate for the speed control knob reads 0 - 10 but the knob turns past 10 to somewhere between where 11 & 12 would be.I will have to make a cheat sheet for the machine that tells me what numbers on the face plate correlate to specific wire speeds /amps
Reply:Thank you soutthpaw for the Profax spoolgun model numbers. That opens up a wider range of used guns to search for. I have a spool gun for the Rebel that I can probably adapt to use on the Migmaster. I was thinking of making a Euro Kwic Connect to Tweco adapter so That I can use either Euro or Tweco end guns on this machine and have 3 guns set up for three different wire sizes. Dave thank you for the door chart settings. That chart gets the machine welding but is slightly off on the parameters as you will get a lot of spatter with the door chart settings. Dan has already mentioned this and I have discovered this to be true. I have my work cut out for me with documenting wire feed speeds. I was using the 6 second x 10 method that I learned from watching Jodys videos but soutthpaw said a few posts back that this machine is not linere so 15 seconds x 4 is a preferred method he used. I will have to try both and see what I experience.Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-01-2018 at 11:50 AM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:When you have excess spatter, and the bead is too wide, it's a sign of too much voltage for the wire feed speed.If penetration is good (controlled by WFS), turn down voltage.If penetration seems to be low, increase WFS until spatter diminishes. If wire "stubs" into the metal, that's too fast for the voltage. It’s a balancing act
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I always set by stubbing the wire into the work, then back off till it pulls out off the puddle/arc breaks, then start with my settings 1/2 way between the 2 extremesI've had a few of those spoolguns with different branding, Airco, Miller, military surplus spec.
Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I am going to look one more time to make sure the machine is set up properly for 230v and not 208v. I believe I have the 208/230 volt only machine. Once I know 100% that the machine voltage is set up correctly I will start documenting wire feed speeds. I am able to get a decent arc that would be acceptable but am not able to get that nice crisp near spatter free arc I have read about.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
I am going to look one more time to make sure the machine is set up properly for 230v and not 208v. I believe I have the 208/230 volt only machine. Once I know 100% that the machine voltage is set up correctly I will start documenting wire feed speeds. I am able to get a decent arc that would be acceptable but am not able to get that nice crisp near spatter free arc I have read about.
Reply:I see from my emails that you posted this quoted text on the other thread soutthpaw. One of these is your friend. The netwelding.com one is by far the most accurate, but the prose ones are okay too, make sure to get the standard, not metric one. Image: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...adf3385e14.jpg
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Dave I don’t know how to check the voltage while welding. Do I just clip the meters leads to the + and - leads in DC volt mode on any basic DMM?
Reply:Shoot that sounds easy peasy. I have to go try that right now
Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Ok power is connected correctly as far as I can tell. I do not see a jumper junction that require changing. I don't think the 208v/230v only unit comes with the jumper junction. 230v cable routed to the Power Switch to the front of the machine and the 208v cable is tied off to the side not connected.
I hooked up a volt meter. Tested for voltage on my best known settings for 1/4" and was seeing around 19-17.5 volts. It was probably fluctuating because I did not maintain the same stick-out distance. For the most part is stayed close to 18 volts. The machine was set to ( Med - 1 - 4.5 ) = ( Course - Fine - WFS )I set the machine to kill and was getting about 30 volts. I don't know if this is normal but when I initiate the arc the voltage spikes instantly to about 37 volts then drops down to about 30V when set to kill. Is that from inrush current or is this something I should be concerned with. I'm wondering if this is why the machine has real poppy starts.here are a couple of beads at the above setting using both .030 and .035 wires.
Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-01-2018 at 03:11 PM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:It was my 50th B-day yesterday, so I took a day off from participating on this site and went to the Trail Blazer basketball game in Portland. Anyway, one thing I see that might be killing the arc quality is the fact that it looks like you are welding on heavy mill scale instead of bright shiny metal. For short arc, I shortened the length of one of my nozzles so that the contact tip is extending out past the nozzle a healthy 1/8". This typically allows me to hold a nice tight 1/4" - 3/8" stick out. It's very rare that I get a poppy start from my unit. With my unit, even though it doesn't seem like it should be that case, the arc starts seem to be better with the ball left on the end of the wire. I have the burnback timer though, so my wire stick out after completeing a weld or tack is typically around a 1/4" - 3/8" with the ball on the wire. Also remember a high percentage of the time I using the knurled lower drive roll for solid wire.I typically run .030 on my unit. In the near future I'll try running some .035 INE and pass you on some machine settings to give a try. With an .030 wire coarse tap low/fine tap 6/ and around 5 on the wire speed produces real good results with my unit on 1/8".ESAB Migmaster 250
Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Well Happy belated 50th Birthday Dan
I have a bunch of 1/4”x1.5” coupons cut to 3” lengths that I was cleaning the scale on. One of those was with scale and the other was cleaned just at the joint.I will try your 1/8” settings later and see how they work on my machine. Thank you
Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Ok power is connected correctly as far as I can tell. I do not see a jumper junction that require changing. I don't think the 208v/230v only unit comes with the jumper junction. 230v cable routed to the Power Switch to the front of the machine and the 208v cable is tied off to the side not connected.[I hooked up a volt meter. Tested for voltage on my best known settings for 1/4" and was seeing around 19-17.5 volts. It was probably fluctuating because I did not maintain the same stick-out distance. For the most part is stayed close to 18 volts. The machine was set to ( Med - 1 - 4.5 ) = ( Course - Fine - WFS )I set the machine to kill and was getting about 30 volts. I don't know if this is normal but when I initiate the arc the voltage spikes instantly to about 37 volts then drops down to about 30V when set to kill. Is that from inrush current or is this something I should be concerned with. I'm wondering if this is why the machine has real poppy starts.here are a couple of beads at the above setting using both .030 and .035 wires.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Hobbytime
those look like pretty darn good beads, maybe if you grind clean the metal they will be even better...
Reply:I forgot to mention the above 1/8" welds were ran with .035 - .045 liner and .035 guide tube. Gun did have the .030 tip to match the wire size.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:your T joints look a little to convex, try moving faster or turning up the voltage a bit.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250 I will need to see if I have any more 1/8" to cut up for coupons. I will try faster before I try more voltage. I'd also like to try a weave pattern as well.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:I just did this, with the same setting, you can see how convex the push stringer is compared to the push e . Also push and pull e on other side. Gun angle was a bit off on my pull e. With that movement, drop your settings by 1 or 2 gauges from the thickness you are using, you go slower which makes up for the lower amperage, voltage. 14.2 V. 125 ipm .035 Spoolarc 86Also I find that settings on MIG vary the most of any process between machines and brands. So don't put too much stock in that when it's not from another Migmaster 250
Last edited by soutthpaw; 04-02-2018 at 02:19 PM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I wish I had the digital voltage readout on my machine. Sure would make it easier than using a multimeter. At least there is the DMM option for getting voltages.I will have to look at those beads when I get back home Tiger. Had to go on an errand. Get lunch and a couple of fine thread screws for my bench vise.I just recently started using the e weeve pattern. I have yet to cut and etch any of these to see what kind of pennetration I am getting.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Ok picked kids up from school and had an eBay purchase waiting for me when I got home. I should not have to worry about any duty cycles with this $85.00 purchase. Came with a 10 pack of .035 tips too
...I looked and have enough 1/8 material for 5x T-joint or But-joint coupons 4 long.
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Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw
I just did this, with the same setting, you can see how convex the push stringer is compared to the push e . Also push and pull e on other side. Gun angle was a bit off on my pull e. With that movement, drop your settings by 1 or 2 gauges from the thickness you are using, you go slower which makes up for the lower amperage, voltage. 14.2 V. 125 ipm .035 Spoolarc 86Also I find that settings on MIG vary the most of any process between machines and brands. So don't put too much stock in that when it's not from another Migmaster 250
Reply:Ok I took some of the clean steel 1/8" coupons and welded 4 beads on 2 T joints with the following settings and results. Still need to cut and etch but wanted to document pictures on PC before I cut them. I still have to mark them after wire wheeling them so I know what's what when I cut and etch.
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Reply:I just walked out to the tool room. I was doing 1/8 horizontal this afternoon with my MM 200. L-6-4.25 on CO2.Nice whip ! I just stuck a new 15 foot HTP/M-25 on mine.Last edited by Bonzoo; 04-02-2018 at 10:47 PM.
Reply:Yeah I could not believe the deal I got on it. It is very similar to a Bernard Centerfire whip. I have to call ESAB again to get the Euro kit part number which is close to $170 :O... I am going to try and figure out a cheaper solution that will allow me to keep the tweco end so I can use it on both the Rebel and Migmaster. Not sure how that will effect feeding though.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Yeah I could not believe the deal I got on it. It is very similar to a Bernard Centerfire whip. I have to call ESAB again to get the Euro kit part number which is close to $170 :O... I am going to try and figure out a cheaper solution that will allow me to keep the tweco end so I can use it on both the Rebel and Migmaster. Not sure how that will effect feeding though.
Reply:Yeah something cheap on ebay would probably fit the bill. I am in no hurry. Still want new drive rolls, guide tubes, gun liners, 8/3 or 6/3 extension cord and a bottle for spray. I just jumped on that gun while it was still available. Seller has either a fusion or spraymaster 250 for sell as well for a few bucks more.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:I am wondering where Scott has been. Have not seen him posting for a minute. Hope he is doing ok.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Cut n Etch reveals not as much penetration as I was anticipating.
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Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-03-2018 at 01:37 AM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Could be as much technique as machine. It looks on some like you may not be spending enough time in the toes. Small changes in gun manipulation can have significant effects on that etch patternLast edited by soutthpaw; 04-03-2018 at 02:34 AM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I will try some more tomorrow. I am thinking strait drag and push methods. I need more 1/8" material to make more coupons.Edit: I definitely need to practice more and develope a consistent technique so the beads are more uniform from start to finish. It seems like 1/8" material likes to be ran fast.I tried turning the fine heat control knob up one notch from 6 to 7 and adjusting the wfs to match the voltage but either I was to slow "even though I tried to p/u travel spd" or it was just too hot for 1/8". It would burn holes through and was pretty spattery.Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-03-2018 at 02:41 AM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
I will try some more tomorrow. I am thinking strait drag and push methods. I need more 1/8" material to make more coupons.Edit: I definitely need to practice more and develope a consistent technique so the beads are more uniform from start to finish. It seems like 1/8" material likes to be ran fast.I tried turning the fine heat control knob up one notch from 6 to 7 and adjusting the wfs to match the voltage but either I was to slow "even though I tried to p/u travel spd" or it was just too hot for 1/8". It would burn holes through and was pretty spattery.
Reply:Dave it looks like you welded right over mill scale and rust without any spatter issues.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Dave it looks like you welded right over mill scale and rust without any spatter issues.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Ok picked kids up from school and had an eBay purchase waiting for me when I got home. I should not have to worry about any duty cycles with this $85.00 purchase. Came with a 10 pack of .035 tips too
...I looked and have enough 1/8” material for 5x T-joint or But-joint coupons 4” long.
Reply:
Originally Posted by winniweld
I have that same gun, I ran about a hundred pounds of NR 211 through it last fall on a work barge replating project. I really like the gun and the price sure was right.
Reply:Oops I meant I don't have any .040 & up size med Velocity tips. A brand new .023 guide tube just showed up from Ebay.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Spoolgun... http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=700098Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Thank you soutthpaw.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Some may remember I purchased what was listed as a BNIB '15 ESAB Gun Master 250 gun with .035 - .045 liner. It turned out the gun came to me with a Tregaskiss gun liner installed in it. So I asked the seller why he listed it as new when it did not have the OEM gun liner. Short story the seller issued me a $26.00 credit from the $85.00 purchase which means the Gun Master 250 Mig gun ended up costing me a Total of $59.00 shipped. Every thing about the gun was new except for the liner. I'll take it
So far to get this to be a working machine I have $142.00 into it plus my time cleaning and fixing it up. Oh yeah and $25.00 for gas so if I count the gas it has cost me roughly $170 for a machine with a new Gun Master 250 and new .035 guide tube. Ok enough rambling, time to get busy and weld some more coupons. I am going to try strait drag with Dan's settings for .030 on 1/8", My settings on 1/8", then the hotter settings suggested by Dave and lastly some .023 wire on 1/8". Hopefully the .035 - .045 liner won't mess with the .023 wire too much.Last edited by N2 Welding; 04-04-2018 at 12:19 PM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:The fact that the Gunmaster 250 was built by Tregaskiss would probably be a good reason for the liner being a Tregaskiss.
For the suggested .030 1/8" settings that work well with my unit, I push the puddle with a straight travel, adding a little side to side wiggle if needed. On the wire speed I stated around 5 meaning it could be a little before, dead on, or slightly past.ESAB Migmaster 250
Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:
Originally Posted by Dan
The fact that the Gunmaster 250 was built by Tregaskiss would probably be a good reason for the liner being a Tregaskiss.
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:17:30