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I got a Hobart Champion 16 that was going to be salvaged. Been setting in a PU bed trailer with a topper on it for 13 years! Serial #: 93WS24614, spec. 7116-1. Has Onan P216 engine.I got it de-dobbered, cleaned pretty good. Removed carb and intake and adjusted the valves, clean the carb, new air filter, oil and filter. Engine runs good, just won't idle down.The solenoid activates when it gets 12 volts. When engine is running only about .45 volts gets to the solenoid. I checked the solenoid by putting 12 volts directly from the battery to the two wires while the engine was running.The idle control circuit looks pretty simple with only 9 components on the board. Part number 49340004 is on the plastic . It has 4 connections. I'm pretty sure one wire come from the auto on/off switch on the front panel. The next 2 wires go to the solenoid. One wire goes to ground.I can not find a schematic of the control panel, or even a manual for this specific welder. Hobart must have had several welder with similar enough faces they didn't have a manual for each one.Can someone lead me to a schematic of the idle control module, or a replacement. Thanks in advance.
Reply:That looks like the engine SN and Spec#. Welder SN will have 2 letters followed by 6 numbers.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:Forgot to add. Your description of the idler control board sounds as if it may be an aftermarket item. An original would be an epoxy potted module.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:https://www.hobartwelders.com/support/manuals-and-partsMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:
Originally Posted by duaneb55
That looks like the engine SN and Spec#. Welder SN will have 2 letters followed by 6 numbers.
Reply:I went to the link but it said it couldn't find the number I entered, and to go over to the next column and list the model of welder. When I list Champion 16 it gives a wide range of numbers like, "Serial Numbers: KK123153 through ZZ222222". So if I leave off the 93 and enter the WS24614...the manual it guides me to has a different face plate. I'll look tomorrow in more detail for the number as you describe, but I think this welder is a "step-child" from somewhere along the lines.
Reply:Should be a data tag on the front of the machine. May be located elsewhere on the Hobart-vs.-Miller.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:I see if I can post a couple of pictures to help.
Reply:I see the mud wasps like it. Is this the D2 thread?
Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221 True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:That label doesn't look familiar. How about a shot of the front control panel?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:Guys, that is the correct serial # for that machine. It's a 1993 model year. Back before the ITW buy out, that's how Hobart used to do their s/n's. 1st 2 digits were the model year. Also, like Lincoln's code #, Hobart used to use the spec # on their welders also. If you ever called their tech support back in the day, you'd give both #'s to help them find the correct schematics for the machine you were calling about.The reason you cannot pull up anything on the Hobart website is because it's part of Miller/ITW. All Miller-made Hobarts use the Miller s/n nomenclature, 2 letters 6 digits. When ITW bought out Hobart, all engine drives and electrics 251 amps and higher were sold to the parent company of Thermal Dynamics (can't remember its name) and that's when Thermal Arc was born. They supported the pre-buy out machines for awhile but that went away after a few years. Somewhere I've got a phone # of one of the original Hobart engineers. If I can find it, I'll post it as he may have the tech manual to this spec #.Good luck.
Reply:Hey, John T ....yep it's me.Duane here's a couple pictures.
Reply:Also, that's an original Hobart board. Part # would be 493400-04. Which later, Thermal Arc nomenclature changed it to 493400-004 IIRC.
Reply:It's a pretty simple circuit with limited parts and if I could find a schematic I could get it rebuilt, I think. I really appreciate all the information you guys offer.I have a Miller AEAD 200 that had the same problem a few years back and I bought a circuit for that machine from someone in Tx. He has a co. that builds those board and it was nicer that what Miller had to offer at about 1/2 price. Had LEDs to indicate what was working and came with a test light to make sure you got things right. I still use that test light!I might be able to locate that source and see what I can find out.
Reply:Check HERE
Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221 True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Thanks for jumping in with the clarifications AGW. I've had limited exposure to the Hobart product line - new and old. Obviously the "Champion 16" designation has been around awhile and certainly longer than I thought.
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Reply:
Originally Posted by duaneb55
Thanks for jumping in with the clarifications AGW. I've had limited exposure to the Hobart product line - new and old. Obviously the "Champion 16" designation has been around awhile and certainly longer than I thought.
Reply:Hey LenRan across this while searching on my hard drive for some of my Hobart repair files.How to check Champion 16 idler module and current transformer:If the unit won't come off low idle under electrical or weld load then either the Current Transformer CT1 is defective or the Idler Module IM is.CT1 can be checked by measuring for a low AC voltage between wire #8 (terminal C) and wire #10 (terminal E) of the idler module with a load on one of the auxiliary power outlets or weld load. A 150watt light load at one of the receptacles should register approximately 1VAC between IM terminals C and E.If the above approximate voltage is present at IM terminals C and E then idler module IM is suspect if it won't release (de-energize) the idler solenoid.Also, I found a 1999 Champion 16 manual that has a schematic with a 1996 date stamp. The 4 wires coming off the idler module go to the ignition switch, idler solenoid, CT1, and ground.Hope this helps.Last edited by AGW; 10-01-2018 at 12:20 PM.
Reply:Good info but the issue is it won't idle down from weld/power speed.I would suspect either the main power transistor mounted to heat sink(Q2?), one or both switching transistors Q1/Q3 or the timing capacitor C1 as the cause.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:My bad, I should have re-read his post. Was thinking it wouldn't idle up.
Reply:I went out and checked my battery to be sure it was at a good voltage so the generator would be able to do something besides charge the battery. It was good, 12.82 V. Here's a diagram of where the wires go on the idle board. Also pictures of the board, front and back.
Maybe these will help. Thanks again.
Reply:Len check your email
Reply:Pretty simply looking typical idler control circuit. Q1/Q3 are definitely switching transistors for the big control transistor (Q2?) mounted to the heat sink. The large 1000uF capacitor is the "timer" portion of the circuit that charges up to turn on Q1 which in turn switches the large transistor on thus providing the ground to the idler solenoid. As stated earlier, Q3 is also a switching transistor controlling the main unit.Not sure what AGW emailed you and you may have this resolved already. If not, could you take an old toothbrush or small wire brush to both sides of that board and snap a couple more photos so we can make out the obstructed traces and component designations? I believe that would prove helpful.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:
Originally Posted by John T
I see the mud wasps like it.
Reply:
Originally Posted by duaneb55
Not sure what AGW emailed you and you may have this resolved already. If not, could you take an old toothbrush or small wire brush to both sides of that board and snap a couple more photos so we can make out the obstructed traces and component designations? I believe that would prove helpful.
Originally Posted by duaneb55
Man I hate those little beggers! Or is that buggers?
Reply:I just got in, so I'll do a clean up and get a couple of more pictures in the morning. It sounds like if I had about 4 of the correct components I could resurrect this board, (just being an optimist)!
Reply:As I indicated earlier, it appears to be a pretty basic idler control circuit and my experience with similar has been a failed switching transistor, main power transistor, timing capacitor or a blown flyback diode (CR1 on your board that I don't suspect in this case).MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:Here's a couple of more pictures.
Are you looking for something specific? If so, maybe I can get a picture of just that area.
Reply:Do you know how to check a capacitor to see if it charges/discharges with a DMM?How about testing transistors?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:I don't know how to test the components, but if it's not too complicated I might be able to follow through. I do have a digital MM.I have a friend who say he can come by and test things, but he won't be in the area until tomorrow. What should I look for?
Reply:Testing a transistor:https://vetco.net/blog/test-a-transistor-with-a-multimeter/2017-05-04-12-25-37-07You'll want to remove the transistors from the circuit to avoid false results.Without a capacitance tester you can do a basic charge/discharge test of the subject DC capacitor by setting the DMM to a high OHM setting and place the probes on the each lead. The display value should increase and will likely go quickly. Reverse the leads and the value should go from high to low or 0. This typically happens immediately so watch closely. Unfortunately, this tells you nothing about the capacitors overall capacitance or leakage. You should be able test C1 with it still in the circuit but can remove it if there is any question regarding your results.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:Duane, resistor R3 was open. Replaced and it's functioning just like new. It sure is nice to get something someone was going to give up on running again. Thanks for you help.AGW, thanks for your help also. Your information helped me to keep digging for an answer. I talked to one guy who was retired from the welding industry. He's now working on welders and selling some parts, and he told me in no uncertain terms I needed to keep looking for the correct ser. #. That he'd worked on hundreds of Hobart Champion 16 welders and the number I gave him was for something else!Hopefully this information will help someone else working one of these stepchildren!Now, any you guys knowledgeable about installing a 3rd function valve on a Kubota L4240 tractor?
Reply:That's great. Way to go, Sir.
Reply:That's awesome news. I knew you'd get to the bottom of it in the end. Looking at R3 now you can see the discoloring between the red and violet(?) bands. Being open, voltage couldn't get to Q1 to turn it on. Good work! I am a little surprised it was an open resistor though but obviously anything is possible in electronics.According to what AGW said, the SN you listed is legit. Perhaps the other guy is like me and never worked on or seen a pre-ITW Champion 16.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110
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Reply:Guys, I got the covers all back in place and used it to weld some. It works nicely. I'm going to take it over to my nephews and let him weld some pipe fence for a few hours.The guy I got it from came by and was asking me what I was doing with it. When I told him I'd pretty much gone through it and cleaned everything, changed oil, filters and got the idle control board working, adjusted valves, cleaned carb...he asked me what he could buy it back for. I think he may have been kidding.Thanks again, guys!Oh, I got the 3rd function valve installed to!
Reply:Glad i found this thread, I have a Hobart G-225-K gas drive with the same idle issue, the control module is the same, I had a obviously blown capacitor which i replaced but still no function, now I have to test the rest of the components, will pay particular attention to that R3 resistor.
Reply:Tested the resistors, all checked out to the correct value, swapped out the CR1 diode just because i had a replacement, no luck, need to remove the Q1 to test so will replace it with a new one, my board is slightly different than Len's board. replaced that capacitor with a identical unit, the discoloration at the top edge is where it blew out.
Last edited by AKAMick; 05-31-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Reply:Seems to be Hobarts like mine are an orphan machine, oh well!
Reply:Replaced the main power transistor 2N4921 and it works perfectly now, thanks for Ebay there is always someone selling the part you need no matter how obsolete, nice to hear it idle down like it is supposed to do, now to get the Aux power and Weld power engine speeds dialed in an this old but trusty machine will be perfect, love how it runs 6010, even 5/32 rod, it does real good for not being a DC generator machine. totally chuffed! |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:16:39