Does the 210 mvp really have 20 more amps then the 190?

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Hello guys im trying to decide between the 210 mvp or the 190 (110v is a non issue). I've read a bunch and people seem to say the arc on the 190 is better then the 210 mvp. Does the 210 really have 20 more amps then the 190? has anyone measured this or is it just a selling gimmick. Ideally i would like to get a hold of an ironman 230, but I feel like i'll never use it to its full capabilities. Thanks
Reply:I had a 190, never had a 210, and now have a Millermatic 252. Seriously, get the bigger machine if you can afford it. You will be glad you did in the long run.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Check the actual usable output with a DC tongs on the ground cable while welding. The 190 will likely show 130 and the 210 will likely show around 150. They all do a play on numbers. For instance the Lincoln 115v is called a 140 and it puts out around 85 amps. The folks that have never put tongs on the cables will argue that the machines put out what the numbers say.Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )Cobra PythonsThermal Arc 300 AC/DC  ( Sanrex )ESAB 301i AC/DC  ( Lorch )Thermal Arc 161STL  ( WTL )Thermal Arc 190S  ( Sanrex )Cut Master 82, 42. Cut45 ( WTL )Victor Gas Apps.Boxes and boxes of welding crap.
Reply:Check the DUTY CYCLE on both machines.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rondo

Check the actual usable output with a DC tongs on the ground cable while welding. The 190 will likely show 130 and the 210 will likely show around 150. They all do a play on numbers. For instance the Lincoln 115v is called a 140 and it puts out around 85 amps. The folks that have never put tongs on the cables will argue that the machines put out what the numbers say.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Munkul

That's highly subjective depending on wire type, wire size, wire speed, gas mix, etc.... Most MIG welders will rarely be used at their maximum rated amperage anyways, since usually people size them to their intended use... i.e you buy a 200 amp machine to do a load of sheet metal and railings etc up to 1/8" thick... in this range you're unlikely to want more than 170 amps tops
Reply:Just for the record, the HH 190 will do whatever you ask of it up to a quarter inch of thickness. I loved mine, the only reason I got rid of it was because I got a deal on the MM 252, and just couldn't resist. However I still say if you are doing a lot of quarter inch material or thicker, get the Ironman 230. It is worth the extra money, and it welds the thin stuff just as well as any other machine. If Bonzoo was around he more than second that recommendation.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I've narrowed it down to the 210 mvp and 230. I sometimes build and work on farm equipment.
Reply:Get the 230 if you can afford it. You can't add amps but you can turn them down if required. The 230 rolls around on it's own, has a higher duty cycle and allows the use of 12" spools of wire which are cheaper per pound. You could run small diameter dual shield flux-core too.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rondo

Check the actual usable output with a DC tongs on the ground cable while welding. The 190 will likely show 130 and the 210 will likely show around 150. They all do a play on numbers. For instance the Lincoln 115v is called a 140 and it puts out around 85 amps. The folks that have never put tongs on the cables will argue that the machines put out what the numbers say.
Reply:Put a accurate amp meter, and volt meter on the machine and they might surprise you.. I had little Klutch 120 volt machines output 170 amps, solid 18.5 volts.. My little 160 esab is over 200 amps, and 20 volts real easy..The 210 will be similar in output probably 22 volts the output The 190 will not have the voltage output of the 210.. forget the amps really, it's what you can push it in voltage when running around 200 amps.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I went with the ironman 230. thanks guys.
Reply:

Originally Posted by aadad

I went with the ironman 230. thanks guys.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Brand X

Put a accurate amp meter, and volt meter on the machine and they might surprise you.. I had little Klutch 120 volt machines output 170 amps, solid 18.5 volts.. My little 160 esab is over 200 amps, and 20 volts real easy..The 210 will be similar in output probably 22 volts the output The 190 will not have the voltage output of the 210.. forget the amps really, it's what you can push it in voltage when running around 200 amps.
Reply:I think you made a good choice.


Reply:so far testing it with .030 Lincoln wire, I like it a lot. I'm used to welding pulse with our Miller access 450. I've also welded with our millermatic 252 in our tooling building and I feel the Hobart seems to have a better arch, it also seems to produce less spatter also. it wets the edges quite nicely, so far I'm pretty happy I went with this machine.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rondo

I have a 300 amp machine that loves 16ga, 14ga, 1/8 etc. Max output doesn't have anything to do with what you are building. Use what ever wire and gas you use and the DC tongs will tell you what you want to know for that wire and gas.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Brand X

Put a accurate amp meter, and volt meter on the machine and they might surprise you.. I had little Klutch 120 volt machines output 170 amps, solid 18.5 volts.. My little 160 esab is over 200 amps, and 20 volts real easy..The 210 will be similar in output probably 22 volts the output The 190 will not have the voltage output of the 210.. forget the amps really, it's what you can push it in voltage when running around 200 amps.
Reply:I have a question for the physicists. If a heat sink of say 10 square inches at 250 degrees F can dissipate "X" amount of calories/BTU's per minute into 104 degree F air can it dissipate more/faster into 70 degree F air? I don't know, I'm just curious.---Meltedmetal
Reply:My point was, because you have 210 amps, or 160 amps,,tell you very little about what a machine can really do.. My Esab 160 should fall off to nothing, but low and behold it will weld as thick as any Hobart 210.. So going by manufacturers amp# is mostly useless. Put .030 wire in two machines that have the same 140 amp rating.. One will run C02 gas, and the other will fall on it's face.  Yes it's voltage that does the work..  Not ratings in amps..shows it can do work maybe, but not how much in the real word of real welding setups.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:

Originally Posted by Meltedmetal

I have a question for the physicists. If a heat sink of say 10 square inches at 250 degrees F can dissipate "X" amount of calories/BTU's per minute into 104 degree F air can it dissipate more/faster into 70 degree F air? I don't know, I'm just curious.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Brand X

My point was, because you have 210 amps, or 160 amps,,tell you very little about what a machine can really do.. My Esab 160 should fall off to nothing, but low and behold it will weld as thick as any Hobart 210.. So going by manufacturers amp# is mostly useless. Put .030 wire in two machines that have the same 140 amp rating.. One will run C02 gas, and the other will fall on it's face.  Yes it's voltage that does the work..  Not ratings in amps..shows it can do work maybe, but not how much in the real word of real welding setups.
Reply:It's the same deal with small air compressors. 5HP 115 volt motor, yeah right! Larger welders seem to have more accurate data advertised.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

It's the same deal with small air compressors. 5HP 115 volt motor, yeah right! Larger welders seem to have more accurate data advertised.
Reply:One thing.. If you run a decent 140 amp mig (inverter) on a good 20 amp circuit. It will allow that machine to perform pretty well before the breaker snaps.. Very usable to have a small machine that pulls more out of the wall, and wets out the weld bead . The advantage in a machine that can output more and draw more on a 20 amp circuit is it can be setup with a smaller 120 volt generator, and work really well. Goes with 120-120-240 volt plasma cutters too. The ones that stop input draw to 20 amps only, are really pretty weak overall. Pull a little more off that line even with the standard 20 makes all the difference in the world.. Big boys have been doing that for years. Even inverter stick machines too Glad they give you a choice to how much you want to push it..Last edited by Brand X; 04-19-2020 at 07:35 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i

Originally Posted by Brand X

One thing.. If you run a decent 140 amp mig (inverter) on a good 20 amp circuit. It will allow that machine to perform pretty well before the breaker snaps.. Very usable to have a small machine that pulls more out of the wall, and wets out the weld bead . The advantage in a machine that can output more and draw more on a 20 amp circuit is it can be setup with a smaller 120 volt generator, and work really well. Goes with 120-120-240 volt plasma cutters too. The ones that stop input draw to 20 amps only, are really pretty weak overall. Pull a little more off that line even with the standard 20 makes all the difference in the world.. Big boys have been doing that for years. Even inverter stick machines too Glad they give you a choice to how much you want to push it..
Reply:

Originally Posted by Brand X

That will have enough voltage to spray-arc .030 pretty well. Also will run some dual shield wire. Better option if you do not have to move it much..
Reply:I don’t know the amp difference between the 190 and 210, try running some flux cored through that little 210. You will notice the difference in amps with flux cored between the two machines.