Old Hobart 4 cylinder portable welder

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Hi, found this old girl, has not run in years, what would it be worth and anyone know anything about these units?  I can't find too much info on it.  Is it a WW2 military surplus?Am I right in assuming its a 200 amp welder?Thanks guys!



Last edited by MilitiaMetals; 12-29-2011 at 01:56 PM.Reason: mistake
Reply:If all the parts are there (mag/distributor, water pump, etc.) I'd say $1/amp.  No telling what you will find even though it looks to be in good shape - except it's covered in some strange white stuff.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110

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Reply:ya I offered the lady $200, was her late husbands.  Thanks for the reply duaneb55
Reply:That thing is too friggin cool. Not sure of the age but the steel wheels on the trailer look to be late 30's to early 40's style. I have a set of 40 ford wheels for my rod that look kind of similar.Lincoln 175 HDVictor 100c
Reply:Ya I am thinking mid 40's to early 50's  I am finding it hard to get info on it and see if there are parts for the engine
Reply:I picked up this one for $200.00. It has a Kaiser Motor. Call Hobart and they have someone that will help you find info. Mine had no tags. so they just took a good guess. Ask for technical publications. Also, they recommended to contact Buffalo Welding (716)875-3340, for older manuals.Parts for Kaiser are still available. I found http://www.kaiserwillys.com/ They even have a service manual.I've been told the amperage dial, and some parts like that are hard to find.

"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!

" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Most Kaisers came out with Red Seal Continetals. They were an industrial motor first and formost. Mac
Reply:hiya Stick-Man   i have the same machine....my deal wasn't as good as yours...but..it worked at the time...i bought mine in 2009 for $500  ..it was designed for military use    if you don't mind...would you please pass on any info you have to me concerning this machine....mine was marked by a company called   America Cryogenics and i haven't found out any info about this company....thanx...Tanman
Reply:Picture of the tag in the first post says it has a Hercules engine. Parts are still available from the original manufacturer.http://www.herculesengine.com/herculesparts.htm1982 Weldanpower 225 AC/DC Briggs1957 Idealarc 180 ACHobart Handler 140Thermal Arc Dragster 85
Reply:To the right person, that oil bath air cleaner is probably worth more than the entire machine.  Holy crap I just replied to a 3 year old post.
Reply:

Originally Posted by tanman

hiya Stick-Man   i have the same machine....my deal wasn't as good as yours...but..it worked at the time...i bought mine in 2009 for $500  ..it was designed for military use    if you don't mind...would you please pass on any info you have to me concerning this machine....mine was marked by a company called   America Cryogenics and i haven't found out any info about this company....thanx...Tanman
Reply:That is one cool old machine. I really hope it has a warm, dry, home by now.
Reply:Finally own it!
Reply:Dos it have the jeep industrial engine, if so you can get parts, i have two of the motors, i scraped out the gen/welder part for the engines . put one on a bandmill and the other on a edger as power units ran them as much as 8 hrs  straight in a day.
Reply:

Originally Posted by MilitiaMetals

Finally own it!
Reply:Lady said she was going to sell it to a cousin, drove by the old farm last year and it was still there!  So I called her and bought it!  It's a 1945 Hobart with a Hercules engine, not seized thank god!  Got it to pop and fart, have a carb kit and plugs on the way.
Reply:Does it also have a 3 phase electric motor to run it? I had an old Hobart like that hooked up to a Chrysler IND251 engine. Even some of the commercial made Hobarts also had the electric motor still intact. Theoretically you could unbolt the coupler and run it off the power in the shop. No complaints at all about how it welded.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Does it also have a 3 phase electric motor to run it? I had an old Hobart like that hooked up to a Chrysler IND251 engine. Even some of the commercial made Hobarts also had the electric motor still intact. Theoretically you could unbolt the coupler and run it off the power in the shop. No complaints at all about how it welded.
Reply:Here's an old ad showing a build your own model that has the shaft extended to couple to an engine. It has the welding generator on one end and the electric motor still on the other end. Back then it was probably not worth building a motor delete option.https://books.google.ca/books?id=MuE...welder&f=falseLast edited by Welder Dave; 08-02-2020 at 03:16 AM.
Reply:Pics from when I saw it was still in the old farm yard.




Reply:When I got her home,  weighed it at the grain terminal in town, 1350lbs









Reply:I had an old boat with twin 6 cylinder Hercules marine engines. They ran in opposite rotations. Sure sounded sweet at the exhaust when both were at the same RPMs.Ernie F.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Here's an old ad showing a build your own model that has the shaft extended to couple to an engine. It has the welding generator on one end and the electric motor still on the other end. Back then it was probably not worth building a motor delete option.https://books.google.ca/books?id=MuE...welder&f=false
Reply:1500 RPM, similar to a Lincoln. I think the switch on the left could be a polarity switch and the switch for the motor would have been on the right where there is something different on your machine. Maybe be a power DC outlet for tools? I wish I would have taken pictures of all the machines I've had over the years. Even better I wished I would have kept some of them. I had the old Hobart and a 1959 Airco Hornet Special that was similar to an SA200 and now I have a 1961 Canadian SA200. I do have pics. of the Miller Trailblazer 55D I put on a welding truck. Sadly I traded it for a trailer and some cash but the trailer shop took the engine out to put in a skid steer because the welder needed a new contactor. Some fly by night idiot said it would cost thousands to repair and a contactor wasn't available. It was an Allen Bradley contactor. I suggested taking it to a Miller service shop but it was too late. The shop is still using the S54 deluxe wire feeder off an electric machine though. Really wish I could have kept that machine. I could do Mig, flux-core and stick from about 40 amps to over 500.
Reply:

Originally Posted by 12V71

A lot of those motor/generators with the extended shaft were meant to power other equipment in the shop by way of a belt pulley and lineshafts. Sounds a bit wasteful, but that welder was probably the biggest electric motor most shops of the day could run.Dave, I’m pretty sure that Airco Hornet from 1959 was made by P&H.  Pure DC like an SA200. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:I've seen a bunch of newer Airco made by Miller but never saw another Hornet Special. It was pure DC and had 6 current ranges if I remember right. Had an F140 Continental and was shorter than an SA200. It was a good machine. I sold it when I got the TB 55D. Did P&H build for other companies?
Reply:Not sure about other companies Dave. I was really surprised about the Airco.  I found this out from a YouTube channel digginok. Frank, the channel owner sent me a email about the Continental firing 180 degrees out of time.  He bought it from a guy that tore it down for rebuild and never could get it to run. He got that fixed ( wrong timing marks used), and I assumed it was a rebadged Miller but it turned out to be a P&H.  I'm sure it's a great machine as they made good stuff.  I've messed with some of their transformer machines but no engine drives.  Sent from my iPad using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:Yes, I saw that video and that was what mine looked like. Judging by the serial number of another Hornet Special you could be right about it being made by P&H. At the time Airco was still in business and the dealer told me it was made in May of 1959. Looking online it's interesting to note that some models had the range selector on the left and some had it on the right. Airco had machines made from a few different companies and were the first to introduce Mig in 1948. I had a brochure about and it said Mig was largely introduced with the introduction of 2 patents by Airco . There were several companies involved in developing Mig but Airco was the main sponsor. It would be interesting to know why Airco sold out. They were right up there with Lincoln, Miller, Hobart , Linde, etc. and were also a large gas distributor. They had the best cutting machines too. Several years ago someone on the forum pointed out the Airco bought the rights to the company that designed the cutting machines. The Radiagraphs were the best on the market for 65 years and then Koike discontinued them.   "The gas metal arc welding (GMAW) process was successfully developed at Battelle Memorial Institute in 1948 under the sponsorship of the Air Reduction Company. This development utilized the gas shielded arc similar to the gas tungsten arc but replaced the tungsten electrode with a continuously fed electrode wire. One of the basic changes that made the process more usable was the small-diameter electrode wires and the constant-voltage power source. This principle had been patented earlier by H.E. Kennedy. The initial introduction of GMAW was for welding nonferrous metals. The high deposition rate led users to try the process on steel. The cost of inert gas was relatively high, and the cost savings were not immediately available."Last edited by Welder Dave; 08-02-2020 at 06:44 PM.
Reply:This video is the history of P&H. Very interesting story, they got into building welders because they were not satisfied with commercially available welding machines of the day. Their own engineers designed them and they built welders up until the 1960’s. They were almost custom built and I have not seen any that were exactly alike.  I restored a 295 amp AC machine and while the case looks similar I’ve never seen another.  They are extremely well built machines.  Some of their old monster TIG machines were state of the art in the day.  I’m sure the selenium button rectifiers would be hard to locate but I’m sure you could update to the new style if you wanted to spend the time. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

1500 RPM, similar to a Lincoln. I think the switch on the left could be a polarity switch and the switch for the motor would have been on the right where there is something different on your machine. Maybe be a power DC outlet for tools?
Reply:Aha. I found this P&H that looks very similar to the Airco. It says Ford engine but the pics. say Continental. Not sure if the video is the same machine or not but could be.Also found this that someone posted on a different forum:The P&H Welding business, along with all the technical engineering drawings and documents supporting the line, was sold in 1968. The firm that bought the P&H Welding business later on discontinued this product line.https://www.auctionsinternational.co...er-96199/basicAnd another one.https://smithauctions.hibid.com/lot/...q=&ref=catalogLast edited by Welder Dave; 08-03-2020 at 01:13 AM.
Reply:24 hours soaking in my special rust eater concoction, managed to get everything loose except the butterfly, giver another 24 hours. I wonder how many decades it’s been since this carburetor was apart?!



Reply:Carb is pretty pooched, ordered an offshore replica


Reply:Carb, came today, will tosser on tomorrow.