Clean 90 degree bend

admin

Hi,I want to build something to make clean 90 degree bends in 1/2" or 3/4" wrought iron.Experimenting with a vice yielded poor results, as did standard benders.They both produce unprofessional results.The thought is to make a small brake and die for the task.How much pressure will be brake need to apply to bend the iron cleanly?what should the die be made of to get the job done, with out distorting or breaking?Any advice or how to proceed is appreciated.
Reply:You didn't say how wide the piece is?  I think you'll need to heat it, 1/2" or 3/4" is pretty thick to get a good square bend without heating.Here's a video of how a blacksmith would do it.  Skip to about the 5 minute mark to see the bend.Owner of Fast Leroy's Bar and GrillLiquor up Front, Poker in the Rear
Reply:A "clean bend" is not a descriptive term.Do you want to bend metal with square inside and outside corners?If so, bending will not do that. As you bend a piece of metal, the outer edge has to stretch while the inner edge compresses.To make actual square corners, no actual radius on the inner or outer edge, you must do more than bend. Cut and weld or upset and work the material as a blacksmith would.Here is the most interesting shortcut experiment I've seen

He is an amazing blacksmith in my opinion. Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 04-30-2019 at 07:17 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:What is it for ?? Forget bending and weld the pieces together for your ninety. you can cut pieces on a 45 too and weld to your ninety. Depends what it's for and what finished results you want.
Reply:

Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave

A "clean bend" is not a descriptive term.Do you want to bend metal with square inside and outside corners?If so, bending will not do that. As you bend a piece of metal, the outer edge has to stretch while the inner edge compresses.To make actual square corners, no actual radius on the inner or outer edge, you must do more than bend. Cut and weld or upset and work the material as a blacksmith would.Here is the most interesting shortcut experiment I've seen

He is an amazing blacksmith in my opinion.
Reply:

Originally Posted by precivilization

And that is just his hobby. His day time job is game developing.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Thick hot roll is tough to get a good and abrupt 1/2 flat bar bend on that.My old Sctosman 65 ton would sometimes crack it. I want back to welding the 90 on garbage hot roll.
Reply:The bend is in 1/2" or 3/4" square wrought iron.Heating would make it easier, but would stress the metal.Over time this would lead to increased corrosion and fatigue.
Reply:A custom die and brake make the most sense.Would a 20 ton hydraulic bench brake be sufficient?What would the die need to be made of to avoid excessive wear?It is for brackets, specifically cemetery planters.They need to be strong, light and tolerate the weather for many years.Last edited by Rick42; 04-30-2019 at 11:32 PM.
Reply:You mentioned "wrought iron" a couple of times. Is this true wrought iron or are you just using the phrase in the traditional 'wrought iron work' context? If is the true wrought iron (one of thecast irons) you'll risk tear out on the outsides with any sharp bends."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:

Originally Posted by Sandy

You mentioned "wrought iron" a couple of times. Is this true wrought iron or are you just using the phrase in the traditional 'wrought iron work' context? If is the true wrought iron (one of thecast irons) you'll risk tear out on the outsides with any sharp bends.
Reply:

Originally Posted by precivilization

And that is just his hobby.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:

Originally Posted by BD1

What is it for ?? Forget bending and weld the pieces together for your ninety. you can cut pieces on a 45 too and weld to your ninety. Depends what it's for and what finished results you want.
Reply:Post a picture of what you're trying to do.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:

Originally Posted by BD1

Post a picture of what you're trying to do.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rick42

I have no formal metal working education, so the technical details and language are not clear to me.  I have practical experience with torch, wire and stick welder, metal worker, sheet metal brake, Bridgeport, lathe and 100 ton brake.  I have experience with working and welding wrought iron for fence pickets and bar stock or angle iron that is used on similar projects (spiral stairs, structural frames. et cetera).  These are all common production materials, not specialty items.  I do not have much experience with harder materials or ones that can not be stick or wire welded (e.g. aluminum, stainless).The composition of the materials generally available is not clear.  It is a good question.  The folks at Metal Supermarket show hot roll "A36" bar stock.  It looks like the stuff I have worked with.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A36_steelThe point about tear out is a concern.  What techniques can be used to avoid excessive distortions during bending?
Reply:To bend 3/4" square or round in a punch and die arrangement as sharp as you want to bend it there will be punch marks as well as deformation. That's just the way it's gonna be. Square stock will pooch the two inside corners out some and thin the outside down a tiny bit maybe. Scarf marks where it rides against the die. Round stock will leave a worse puch marks and a worse scarf on the outside (back side). For me it wouldn't matter if I wanted it as close to natural as possible. The alternative is sanding all the marks out and retreatment. Lots of work for for little gain. Bending is a dynamic process. I wouldn't go with any sharper than about a 3/16th" radius  on the punch."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Are you going to be making a large quantity of these?  Or just a few? Say, less than 10.You really have about 3 options.  Cut and weld for a nice sharp corner.Heat and bend for a sharp but distorted corner.Or bend cold with a radiused die.I'd go cold bend with a radius if keeping the rust away is a priority.  Then blast and paint.  I said paint rather than powder coat because it can easily be touched up with a rattle can if you want to keep it looking nice.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I'd make the thing out of 3/4 water ( 1.050 OD) pipe but I have a 4 1/2 radius die for it.The HF style bender might do it with an aftermarket die .No need for solid stock.I run stuff like that in this. I could build that thing in 1/2 hr or 45 minutes
Reply:

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

Are you going to be making a large quantity of these?  Or just a few? Say, less than 10.You really have about 3 options.  Cut and weld for a nice sharp corner.Heat and bend for a sharp but distorted corner.Or bend cold with a radiused die.I'd go cold bend with a radius if keeping the rust away is a priority.  Then blast and paint.  I said paint rather than powder coat because it can easily be touched up with a rattle can if you want to keep it looking nice.
Reply:Ever consider making it out of aluminum or stainless?
Reply:Now that you're talking about standard bending, it's easy.I've used one identical to this for many years.

Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Yeh if we are talking hollow sections rather than solid round or rectangular sections then it's a whole nuther deal. Punch and die for hollow sections just isn't gonna work out well at all."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rick42

Hi,I want to build something to make clean 90 degree bends in 1/2" or 3/4" wrought iron.Experimenting with a vice yielded poor results, as did standard benders.They both produce unprofessional results.The thought is to make a small brake and die for the task.How much pressure will be brake need to apply to bend the iron cleanly?what should the die be made of to get the job done, with out distorting or breaking?Any advice or how to proceed is appreciated.
Reply:That was a piece of 1" wrought iron that I used to depress the hot rolled. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.The floor bender looks interesting, but does radius bends.The stand has a 6" flat spot, so loosing most of that to bends is not ideal.This one looks better.  It looks like it could handle 1/2" square bar.https://www.harborfreight.com/compac...der-99826.htmlNot sure if it would be strong enough.. or if I am strong enough!Last edited by Rick42; 05-08-2019 at 10:48 PM.
Reply:

Originally Posted by William McCormick

Are you talking about the blue scaled wrought iron for an outside handrail?
Reply:

Originally Posted by Rick42

Yes, half inch bars, commonly used for fence pickets.I've also worked the 1/2 and 3/4 stock.  The boss made a twister out of a threading machine for half in square bar.  They looked great, but most would need hand adjustment.As a one of task, I can manage/suffer, but a bunch of precision bends, needs a tool.Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful feedback and amazing shares!
Reply:My Hyd JD2 converted frankenbender can do this, albeit there will be a radius as others have claimed. I have machined a few dies for flat stock as well as square stock and whatever in-between.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:

Originally Posted by William McCormick

I used a press to bend those rods up into those shapes.
Reply:A Hossfeld type bender would do what you are asking. An ironworker or press brake would work better but have lots of size and power requirements.