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I have recently acquired a number of implements (loader buckets, pallet forks, etc.) that I want to convert for use with the Bob Cat Quick Attach system. I need to remove heavily welded ears and brackets to do this and I want to remove them as quickly and cleanly as possible so as to minimize grinding cleanup and damage to the implement. I believe that some form of gouging is the best way to undo all these welds. I have never gouged before but can add that capability in two ways with the equipment that I have and I am wondering which is the best way to go.One option I have is to get a gouging tip for my Thermal Dynamics XL 100 plasma cutter. Another way is to get a carbon arc torch for use with my Miller Trailblazer 302g engine driven welder. The XL 100 can plasma gouge with 80 amps at 112 volts DC. The Trailblazer is rated to use only up to 3/16" carbon rods with a carbon arc torch and this size rod can only take up to 250 amps.I realize that there are pros and cons to both systems and it doesn't cost much for me to add both capabilities so I am going to get both anyway. But as I start experimenting, what approach will likely blow the most metal away the fastest and the cleanest?I am guessing that the physics involved in a plasma gouge makes 80 amps in that mode perhaps more powerful than 250 amps in a carbon arc process. And there may be other factors to consider as well such as the ability to manipulate a carbon rod into tighter spaces than the head of a plasma torch. So I will probably end up using both ways, but given ideal conditions for each process, which is likely to be the most powerful for me?Bill Smith
Reply:I'll probably create a small storm over saying this, but if you have a Victor torch, get a "gouging tip". If all you have to remove is mounting ears etc. I think this would would be the cheapest way. I used this in my job for years and always liked it better than air arc unless I had a really thick peice of iron cracked. I realize this belongs with dinosaurs given the welding technology today. My $.02, MikeiOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Bill, I don't have a gouging tip for my plasma torch, and when I've tried to gouge with it the results have not been great due to the fact that you can't get the head in the proper position. The one thing that I've noticed about Plasma cutting (with a Miller Spectrum 2050) is that you have to be fairly close to the metal, and the carbon arc is much more forgiving.Carbon arc torches work great for cutting out welds. I max out my Miller Trailblazer Pro (350A) when I'm gouging.Mike - I'm not familiar with the "gouging tip" for a cutting torch - how is it different than a normal cutting tip?
Reply:It's bent.
Reply:I use carbon arc alot. Personaly, I would not subject my Trailblazer to such abuse, as carbon arc gouging. Besides, there are other alternatives, for the same results. I use a Victor #315 straight torch with a #3 scarf tip. It will remove some metal quick. Can also be used w/cutting tip to reach inside tight spaces when needed. Plasma gouging don't remove enough metal at one time. I use it on gauge steel and backgouge welds sometimes.If it's HOT, Don't touch it
Reply:Carbon arc gouging is hard on welding machines. Most shops I have worked in restrict gouging on smaller machines and only use 400 and larger power supplies. You also need ton of air. I have used a gouging tip on a plasma unit and was very impressed. I don't remember the make or model. It is a simple relpacement of the consumables inside your torch to convert. The main advantage of carbon gouging is that you can dig a trough several inches deep or extend the carbon several inches to cheat and reach into a narrow space.With plasma gouging you are restricted by the size of the torch head. In most cases that is not a problem. If your wear edges are alloy you have to gouge with plasma or carbon because many wear alloys will not cut with a torch since they have so much nickle and chromium in them. Why don't you pickup the gouging tips and try the plasma before you go out and buy a gouging handle and whip?
Reply:Lotech, you mention how hard it is on these machines. Wondering what is it thats hard? Wht parts of the machine wear out or are damaged. Ive been told I can carbon arc with my bobus but I think it is a lil too small for that application. Im fine with using the torch till I can afford a bigger machineIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:It's not so bad on the machines , if you keep a steady goughing going . by that i mean do not let it go "blap, blap, blap, " that WILL kill your machine , unless you have a big -really big industrial welder , like a 800 amp or bigger machine , rated at least 60% duty cycle. when you're doing it right (air arcing) it should be a smooth QUIET sound ( like shhhhhh) . And, like somebody said , it requires LOTS of air . All that said , IF you have the equipment , it's maybe the best way to go. I get away with doing a little air arcing with my sa-250 lincoln diesel - i use max voltage , but not the max amps -use no bigger than a 3/16th carbon . anybody who has not seen what an air arc can do, you oughta see it done with a 1/2" carbon and a 1000 amp power source . it CAN dig a beautiful 1/2"deep X 1/2" wide TRENCH IN ONE PASSso clean , it is ready to weld in . I only say this to the people who may not have ever seen this heavy duty capability in action.
Reply:It won't work where you can't get to it but a grinder with a reinforced wheel can take out weld pretty quickly and precisely. once you have it out on three sides, chisel and break off the rest. What you can't reach with the wheel, you could use your torch.
Reply:Rootdog, Lowtechman, and many others on other forums all mention how hard arc gouging is on smaller machines. But Roy's explanation about how to minimize the effects of arc gouging on the equipment are really helpful. I will practice with his techniques in mind. This page http://www.thermadyne.com/uplFiles/p...89_250_008.pdf gives recommends carbon rod sizes and amperage ranges. Looks like my TB 302 could use 3/16" rods at 250 amps in DCEP mode and 1/4" rods at 250 amp in DCEN mode. With lots of air (may have to gang some of my smaller air compressors to get 13 cfm), plus smooth operation as explained by Roy, and frequent cooling periods for the TB, I can probably get through this job with good speed and efficiency without abusing my TB. May also try my hand at using a #3 scarfing tip on my Victor torch on less critical items. The more I can make that work, the less wear and tear for the TB. I will also experiment with a gouging tip on my XL 100 plasma cutter, but everything I am reading says that the plasma gouging approach for removing welds will not work as well as arc gouging due to access issues (big torch head in tight places) and fine control difficulties. I now have a plan of attack that I am confident with and I am really looking forward to learning some new processes, carbon arc gouging and gouging with a OA torch using a scarfing tip.Many thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Bill Smith
Reply:my shop runs three 305g lincoln gas driven welders, one has probalby 2200 hours on it one has about 1000 and the other is new (less than 100) all of my machines are working machines and earn their keep or they are replaced. i try never to gouge with anything larger than 3/16 but if all i have is 1/4 i'll use it, it just works a little slower and you need more finesse. i also run large wire off of them and have no fear of running them well into there duty cycle. you buy a machine to use, i use them as hard as they will let me. gouging with carbon is far more precise than a torch and also imparts less heat on the part being cleaned. as far as plasma gouging goes my comsumable cost would prohibit using my plasma cutters to gouge with, tips and electrodes are way more costly than carbon rods the bigest draw back to arc gouging i can see is the demand for air that is needed to gouge efectivly. when gouging i run a chicago pnematic gas driven compressor 120cfm @ 100psi. Fire doesn't burn a good Christian !
Reply:Dectwelding, you raise several good points. One is that plasma use does have a considerable consumable expense so that is yet one more reason to use air carbon arc over plasma for gouging. The other point is about the air needed. It seems that a lot of people on this forum and others suggest using way more air than I first thought necessary. At this web page http://www.thermadyne.com/uplFiles/p...89_250_008.pdf recommended air cfm and pressure ranges are 40-80 psi and 8-46 cfm depending on the particular application. Maybe carbon arc gouging is one of those things where it's very important to have at least the minimum air pressure and volume requirements and having extra doesn't hurt and probably helps.Bill Smith
Reply:The more air you have , the better. but, i do get by , on small amounts, judiciously used . I only have a small sears compressor , rated at about 7cu.ft./minute @90lbs. I use the air control valve (button) on my air -arc torch very carefully , shut it off the instant I stop goughing, to save air . (really to ease up on the compressor. ) my torch has a swivel in it . all air arc torches should have one . my dad had a small one once that did not have a swivel, it was a bear to do anything good with it .
Reply:Have used air arc quite a bit(2 1/2" thick manganese roll crusher shells) and believe me, you never have too much air volume. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw |
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发表于 2021-9-1 01:00:11