Arc or Mig what you think?

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Alright i'm still deciding what would be better for me Mig or Arc. Like i know arc welders are cheaper than mig but the welding rods for the arc arn't that cheap. The mig wire is pretty cheap, but if i go mig i would have to rent a bottle buy gas , regulators. I'm wounding what would really be better i would like to weld steel and aluminum. What is probly cheaper to opterate and why do most people pick mig over arc.
Reply:first of all what kind of thickness is the material you will be working with most often?answers like that will provide more info to what might be better for what you want to do...i have a fluxcore machine here for home use and its ok for things up to 3/16 maybe 1/4 thick..good for muffler brackets and things like that when your in a bind...so.. whatcha gonna do with it?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:First, they are both arc welders.  Yes, Lincoln's Stick machine says "Arc Welder" on the box, but they are both electric arc welding processes.What do you plan on welding?  What kind of productivity do you want/need?  You can use FCAW-S in a MIG machine, which is self-shielded flux-cored wire, so no shielding gas is necessary, but you are looking at three times the cost for the wire over the solid wire that requires a shielding gas.Don't overlook CO2 as a shielding gas.  Very acceptable results and lasts a lot longer than the argon mixes, for less money.You'll want a 210A MIG machine with a spoolgun for aluminum, if choosing between SMAW and GMAW.  The smaller machines are not very good at it at all.  And SMAW aluminum is for emergencies, pretty much.  It'll take so much practice and perfect circumstances that you don't really consider it when looking at equipment to do the job.My personal recommendation for you is the Millermatic 210 with the 3035 Spoolmate, like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-210-...QQcmdZViewItemNow, if you are willing to make major sacrifices in capability, reliability, and/or feasibility, you can get less.
Reply:For thinkness of what i'll be welding is probly no more than 1/4 inch material. Yea i have looked into flux cord that is probly what i'll start off with a machine that can do both than i'll upgrade it add a bottle and do mig because it cheaper. For the aluminum i looked at the cost of some of those spool guns and i was like  miller sells them so expensive so i defently won't be going that way i'm just doing a hobby thing not a bissness. I know if i want to weld aluminum i'll need a different liner in the hose and different wire wheels. Like i don't want to be spending to much on all this stuff.
Reply:What aluminum projects do you have in mind?  Do you REALLY need that capability?  It is a real PITB unless you get the right equipment.Without needing aluminum capability (or if you INSIST on trying to fake it), you would probably really enjoy (especially the price) a Hobart Handler 175 (reconditioned):http://www.toolking.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=5632
Reply:I guess i don't really need to weld aluminum. I checked out that welder it not bad deal. Amps 30-175 is good and it can do mig and flux plus it comes with regualtors, wire hmm i'll look into it. but i live in Canada and the shipping is over a 100$
Reply:I've been very satisfied with my purchases from toolking, included reconditioned Hobarts and DeWalts.  The older HH175 is also better in the midrange adjustability over the newer HH180, though both are excellent machines.
Reply:We'll thank anyways there is no way i'm going to pay over 100$ for shipping. I'll see if my local welding shop and see what kind of welders and prices they got there. I rather try looking localy before i go to the internet.
Reply:It costs $7 flat shipping for anything you order from them...  Did it change?  I'll have to go check.I've no problem buying locally when that's where the deal is.  In my experiences, the base price is lower online, and shipping is always cheaper than sales tax.You'll get other recommendations, too, from other members as they chime in.EDIT:  I just checked.  Shipping DID increase recently.  It's now $8.
Reply:Miller 175 or lincoln 175. At Lowe's or Home Depot you can get one for $600. That is affordable. The ONLY difference is the retail models vs. the welding shop models is the retail units have 5 position switch for the amps, where the welding shop model has infinite 1-10 dial for amps. But the retail unit already comes with a regulator, and some wire... both flux-core and straight mig. If there is a home depot or Lowes near you, they will ship it into the store free if they don't have one in stock.And mig is clean, which most welders like. Fluxcore is good for windy conditions, and dirty steel. You will have flux glaze to clean off after welding with flux core, just like arc welding.
Reply:Both the Lincoln SP175T (tapped) and the SP175+ (infinitely variable voltage) should come with regulators and ready-to-go for adding a shielding gas.  You can get either one from a welding supply store, though they may not stock both.  They are excellent units, as is the MM175, of which I've also owned and used heavily for many years.The SP175T is called by other names/numbers at the various box stores where it sells, but is the same machine. Just make sure it's the 230V model.
Reply:Yah 7.99$ flat shipping meaning they won't ship anything inless you pay there flat fee i think that what it mean but i click the expected shipping it sayes 124.99$ so i don't know what that means? I think it like if you ship with us it will only cost you 7.99 but if with other people your expected to pay...Yes i have checked out some of the welders that canadiantire sells and there a lot more expensive same with homedepot.
Reply:you could always search e-bay...just a thought.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What's the situation with shipping to Canada anyway? Is it an import export thing or what? Are there major welder manufacturuers in Canada?
Reply:i searched e-baydont bother ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I hope it isn't to late to chime in here.    But I'd suggest agianst buying a NEW welder on line, especially a MIG.    My expereince is that you might get a good deal but jsut as often the deal is questionable especialy after paying shipping.    The issue with MIG is that you will need a relationship with a local supplier for gases and other supplies anyways.    Might as well develope the relationship right from the begining.As to your original question about which to get, generally I reccomend a 220 volt MIG for first time users.    That is given that they will be doing the sort of things many home owners use the welder for, such as autobody and hotrodding.    If you where on a farm and needed it for repair work then I'd suggest a stick welder.The reasons for a 220 votl welder (usually 175 amp class) is that they are not likely to stress most electrical services (if your in an old house you know what I mean).   This class performs better than the 120 volt machines but is still very portable.    The machines do excellent work on sheet metal and can be used reliably up to about 1/4' steel without issue.   That covers alot of the interests that a home owner might have.   Also for sheet metal a mig is clean, further many auto manufactures reccomend MIG on the new steels in recent automobils.    They are not however aluminum welders, nor are the 200 to 210 amp machines in my estimation.   That is not to say that any of those machine won't weld aluminum, in the right situation, but it would be a less than optimal usage.If you expect that you might go over 1/4' thickness material on a regular basis then you should seriously look into a larger welder.    Or possibly a stick welder.    The problem is stick just doesn't cut it for light gage materials.    Only you know what you are up to!   I know others here suggest a stick machine as a first welder and some even suggest gas.    There are arguments to be made for all these processes.   In the ideal world we would each have a selection of welder to choose from.   Unforutnately if you work for a living that isn't easy to accomplish.    So the suggestion for most people to go with a MIG.ThanksDave
Reply:Originally Posted by wizardMy expereince is that you might get a good deal but jsut as often the deal is questionable especialy after paying shipping.
Reply:I have done a lot more arc welding than mig and i don't think i would even be welding over 1/4" thik. As for the input into the welder it's going to have to be 115/120 volts because there is only 1 220 volt plugin in the hole house witch is being used. I would like a machine that is portable.
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotI have done a lot more arc welding than mig and i don't think i would even be welding over 1/4" thik. As for the input into the welder it's going to have to be 115/120 volts because there is only 1 220 volt plugin in the hole house witch is being used. I would like a machine that is portable.
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotWe'll thank anyways there is no way i'm going to pay over 100$ for shipping. I'll see if my local welding shop and see what kind of welders and prices they got there. I rather try looking localy before i go to the internet.
Reply:1/4" steel and 120V input MIG are mutually exclusive.
Reply:crappy tire....I was pissed...if you go to the crappy tire in salmon arm you pay higher prices than in vernon...why is that if its the same dang company.   YOud think theyd charge the same price for things!!!IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I went to toolking.com searched up the thing that it sayes only 7.99$ for shipping it sayes all items under 150 pounds and you must live in the U.S to recive this offer, and it sayes check shipping calculator for item for other cost for other countrys since i live in Canada and shipping is over 120$. So i don't think i'll be buying there. I'll check out some other places like canadiantire. I still have to check out that local welding supply place. Also about the input voltage for the welder it will most likely have to be 120 volts because as far as i know there only is 1-2 of those plugin in the house and there both being used, i would have to wire up from my electrical box to make a plug in but then it wouldn't be portable. Plus i couldn't see my self welding 1/4 inch metal anyways. Like that it pretty thick.
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702You have experienced getting bad deals buying MIGs online?  Who did you buy it from?  Even the very few bad deals I've heard of were because of shipping problems, and they were taken care of, usually promptly.  I know of ONE case, where after two damaged shipments, IOC refused to ship another one and issued a full refund instead.
Reply:You should know that you will have a very difficult time doing 1/4" with a 120 volt welder.   This has already been pointed out by another poster, so I'd suggest you should spend some time on line looking through the manuals for the welders suggested to better understand their limitations.   I like Lincolns web site better but either Lincoln of Miller will do.Not to get into another thread about electrical systems for welders, but you can always upgrade and add a new circuit for 220V.     In the long run well worth the investment.    The reality is that you just need more power, to weld well, than can be had from a conventional 120 volt outlet.   A few days ago someone suggested that 120 volt welders could best be put to use by professionals.   While I disagree somewhat I do agree that they have an extremely limited range of usefull operation.There is one solution that to many of your requirements and at this time only one solution.   That owuld be Millers PASSPORT welder.    It is portable, it is inverter based so it runs on 120 & 240 volts and when running on 240 volts has a nice welding range.    I looked very deeply into this machine it is perfect for what I wanted  ---  however it is expensive.   So I went with a Lincoln SP175 Plus as the best alternative.I struggled with the portability issue my self.   The problem comes down to a trade off between capability and portability.    A 110 volt machine is a bit useless if it can't handle the job at hand.ThanksDave Originally Posted by BikespotI have done a lot more arc welding than mig and i don't think i would even be welding over 1/4" thik. As for the input into the welder it's going to have to be 115/120 volts because there is only 1 220 volt plugin in the hole house witch is being used. I would like a machine that is portable.You make some good points Dave (Wizard.)  To be successful at buying online, you need to be able to have good or free shipping (probably hard to Canada) and you need to have the experience and knowledge to KNOW EXACTLY what you need, and you will still need a local supplier for gas, unless you're just made of money, because that's very expensive to ship.However, when I do know exactly what you need, I save TONS buying online whenever I can get at least a few days leadtime on what I need.The Passport is a SWEET machine, to be sure.  But priced outside of most hobbiests' budgets.  I'll never part with mine, though!I agree with the relative ease of installing a 240V receptacle, compared to its value once you do it.  Having a few adapters on hand can make a 240V unit quite portable as well.  When I was working mostly from a MM175, I had an adapting extension cord and many times plugged it into customers' dryer or range receptacles.  Of course, I also had my Trailblazer 301G to power it when that wasn't available.
Reply:Yah i would go with the 220volt but the portablity is an issue. What is with the adapters thing somebody explain what it is. Is it a plug that plugs into the 220 volt on one side and on the other side it has two 120 volts?
Reply:No, it adapts the configuration of the wall receptacle of a dryer (NEMA 14-30R for one example) or a range receptacle (like a NEMA 14-50R) to a welder's receptacle on the other end (a NEMA 6-50R.)  You build them yourself with plugs and receptacles and lengths of SO cord from Home Depot or similar.
Reply:Originally Posted by wizardMost of my attempts go something like this get on line to see how much an item will cost and hope tht the site also lets you know how much shipping and handling will cost.   The go around town seeing what is available and the price.   By the time you are done there is likely to be only a few perecent difference.Tha last time I did buy something on line (becnch top digital multimeter), I did so because the items where used and are not available anymore.    For that the deal was good.   As I see it the deals on line are not always bad, but they don't offer enough advantages to make doing business that way worthwhle.Some of those tools I might be able to understand, especially if you have a working shop.    For the person buying his first welder, things are a bit diffferent as I see it.   This person would need a supplier of gas to get online with the welder.    When everything is purchased from a local vendor there is a very good possibility to work out an additional discount as part of the deal. I see this as an argument over  few percent difference in price,    A good knowledgeable welding supply shop, that is well stocked, can be worth the few extra dollars.    Atleast at this point, maybe my opinion will change as confidence increases.
Reply:You will find Lincoln Electrics "Invertec V100-S will allow you to perform both stick and DC Tig with settings as low as 8 amps.And the unit plugs into a 110V wall plug. Consider as others have suggested your requirements and amt. of production, then choose between Mig or Tig. DC Tig will allow you to do all but non ferrous (aluminum- magnesium) and although Tig is a slower process than Mig  it offers the welder more control of the welding then Mig.If you are doing general motorcycle part repair my opinion/suggestion would be Tig and Stick will offer you greater versatility than Mig alone. Ric
Reply:Yeah I understand the need or desire to be portable, that is why I went with a Lincoln 175.    The problem is if you expect this to be your only welder for a while, then you may very well find that the limitations of a 110 volt welder trump the portability feature it has.    That is a welder that can't do the job is of no value even if it was portable.If this was a wire welder to supplement other welding capacities that you have then I would say go with the 110 volt unit.    They do have their place, but I don't see that place as being in  single welder shop.    I fully acknowledge that no welder can do everything a person might reasonably want to do, but that shouldn't mean applying to many limitations what you do purchase. Originally Posted by BikespotYah i would go with the 220volt but the portablity is an issue.
Reply:HeyAlright i contact my local welding supply place asked them a pricing quote on 2 of the welders i'm intrested in Hobart Handler 140 565.00$ and Handler 180 759.00$ So I saw those two welders on the toolking website and the price for handler 140 is 409.88$ and handler 175 for 449.99$ Even though both those prices are in US funds plus after i pay over 100$ for shipping it would be cheaper if i bought the handler 175. But will there be any boarder fees?
Reply:Originally Posted by wizardMost of my attempts go something like this get on line to see how much an item will cost and hope tht the site also lets you know how much shipping and handling will cost.   The go around town seeing what is available and the price.   By the time you are done there is likely to be only a few perecent difference.Tha last time I did buy something on line (becnch top digital multimeter), I did so because the items where used and are not available anymore.    For that the deal was good.   As I see it the deals on line are not always bad, but they don't offer enough advantages to make doing business that way worthwhle.Some of those tools I might be able to understand, especially if you have a working shop.    For the person buying his first welder, things are a bit diffferent as I see it.   This person would need a supplier of gas to get online with the welder.    When everything is purchased from a local vendor there is a very good possibility to work out an additional discount as part of the deal. I see this as an argument over  few percent difference in price,    A good knowledgeable welding supply shop, that is well stocked, can be worth the few extra dollars.    Atleast at this point, maybe my opinion will change as confidence increases.ThanksDave
Reply:If you intend to bring something across the 49th expect a Brokerage fee charged by the broker that transits your purchase through the system.  Be suprised if you are charged less than fifty dollars.  If you live down near the border hire a mail drop then pick it up below the 49th and bring it across and declare.  Then all you pay is GST , provincial sales tax and duty.  Duty will be based on actually where the equipment was manufactured rather than from where it was purchased..
Reply:What is a mail drop?
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotWhat is a mail drop?
Reply:Ooo i know what you mean now. I could just rent one of those mail box kind of things and then just get my dad who drives to the U.S all the time (everyweek or passes boarder) then he could pick it up i guess it depense how much it would be to rent this mail box.