Stick Electrode Selection

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Hey guys,I read a bunch of threads last night about whether or not SMAW was going away or not (some guys are passionate about this) and I would like to see if someone can help me decide on the type of electrodes to buy.  I usually borrow my neighbors MIG unit however I just purchased a new TIG unit that also Stick Welds.  I would rather use my Stick and stop borrowing my neighbors MIG since alot of you stated that you can do some pretty nice welds with SMAW.  I have a project that I am working on that involves 4 inch square steel pipe and 2 inch square steel pipe.  I'm not a metalurgist so I'm thinking this would be considered "mild" steel maybe low alloy.  I want to purchase a couple of different options of welding rods preferebly none that require an oven.  One of the applications would require the welds to be fairly strong since it will be lifting items.  I looked on Lincoln's site and there was a long list of electrodes but other than the low hydrogen coated rods the descriptions were not that different between, fleetweld, Jetweld etc.   Any help would be appreciated in sorting them out.  Michael
Reply:what is the wall thickness of the sq. tube?i pretty much use 7018 for just about everything..(mild steel)5/32 around 180-200 amps...3/32 around 120-150 amps...1/16 around 80-100 amps...have fun  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap,I saw 7018 as an option and I like the fact that it is stronger than 60XX in tensile strength however the specs say that you weld with that using DCEP.  Again, I am a rookie when it comes to welding and I thought the current goes from Negative to Positive.....doesn't that mean the heat will go from the workpiece to the electrode???? or am I just stupid.  I have an HTP Invertig 201 that does both DCEN, DCEP and AC.  Do you weld differently when working in DCEP versus DCEN.  I apologize for the stupid questions but I am used to my neighbors MIG and he just fires it up and away I go.  I know when AC tig welding the reversal of the current adds heat to the TIG electrode and I figured it worked the same way with SMAW.Michael
Reply:Dont fuss too much about the differnce between 60,000 psi and 70,000.    Leave that to the engineers.   As far as the polarity, leave that to the flux composition.  A 7018 must be run in either AC or DCEP.   A 6010 must be run DCEP, a 6011 AC or DCEP, 6013 AC DCEP or DCEN.  Since a 6013 can be run either way, and its a low penetrating rod, I usually use it DCEN.  The 7024 is DCEN.   7018 is a good choice for general work because its low hydrogen so it is more ductile.  However, there are other concerns like moisture and you are limited on your vertical welding to vertical up.  Vertical up, flat, horizontal, overhead.   No downhill welding with 7018.   6011, 6010, 6013 can be run downhill.   Good luck!IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I don´t know if it is Mexican quality rods...(even though most of Lincoln machines I kno are made in Mexico  ) but everytime I picked up a bag of 7018 it had somewhat opening in them, and rod was fill with moisture. It produced welds with a lot of porosity. However I put them in an oven and moisture went away. I just placed them in a sealed container. 7018 is probably the most versatile rod in here just as the 6011
Reply:Thanks TxRedneck,   I read up on the rod specs as far as how the numbering works and I guess that should be left to the experts who are going to do a lot of welding.  All I am doing is some small fabrication with square tube that has a thickness of .25 inch on the 4 inch tube and less than that on the smaller tubes.  I am looking for a good but not fancy rod selection that doesn't require an expert to lay down.  Sounds like the 6013 is going to be the most versatile.  Elvergon....I think I will be avoiding 7018 simply because I don't have a rod heater and nor the extra cash right now to buy one.  Maybe when it comes time to build my dump trailer and I start melting more rods but for right now I'm just looking for a good solid simple recommendation.Michael
Reply:a rod heater is nothing more than a box with a 100 watt lightbulb in it......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Why would anyone need a rod heater? Is this for welding in subzero or something like that?Don
Reply:its for moisture in the air control so the flux dont get fluxed up  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:If the rod heater is for nothing more than "dehumidification" the I can probably just take an old coleman cooler and insert one of my dehumidification rods that I use in my gun safe.  They simply keep the safe at a certain temperature to remove moisture.  I thought they had to be heated up to a certain temperature.  I can remove moisture cheaply.Thanks for the tip.....Michael
Reply:anytime  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by 383bigblockIf the rod heater is for nothing more than "dehumidification" the I can probably just take an old coleman cooler and insert one of my dehumidification rods that I use in my gun safe.  They simply keep the safe at a certain temperature to remove moisture.  I thought they had to be heated up to a certain temperature.  I can remove moisture cheaply.Thanks for the tip.....Michael
Reply:I have a rod oven i'd sell. great oven- but- they use too much electricity (  $  ) the light bulb talk is a bunch of crap. It's better to bake the rod before using , than try to keep it warm.  officially it's supposed to be in a "holding oven" at 180 F    degrees or more (low hydrogen rod. ) and, talking about 7024?   A C  is best .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Down here on the Gulf Coast where it's really humid, welders just keep their rods in one of those rubber gasketed rod boxes or in an ammo dry box.Don
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy HodgesI have a rod oven i'd sell. great oven- but- they use too much electricity (  $  ) the light bulb talk is a bunch of crap. It's better to bake the rod before using , than try to keep it warm.  officially it's supposed to be in a "holding oven" at 180 F    degrees or more (low hydrogen rod. ) and, talking about 7024?   A C  is best .
Reply:180 degrees?whatever  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:LOTS of misinformation in this thread.  Let me put it this way, if you are doing STRUCTURAL welding on something with low-hydrogen electrodes, I hope none of the information in this thread is being used for rod storage/usage.STRUCTURAL here means any weld that can do major damage to life or property if it fails.
Reply:i agree this is getting slightly out of hand...calm down guys...me too  i do lots of cooling drums..some as big as 40-50" diameter..and over 10 feet long7018 all the way with no special storage aparatis..but then and again we go thru 50 lbs in a few days...but no failures to date...and i've been doing this a long time...carry on ...zap!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:bigblock,your average steel you get from the supply house has a tensile strength of 36,000 psi min yield. so a 60 series rod will work fine, but it is my experience that all 60 rods spatter like crazy. we use them to lay in a root pass on smaller steels, .098 or so, and then hot pass with a 7018. we double pass everything. the 60 rods grab better on the smaller sheet, and put some meat in there.you can get high strength steel, grade 60, with is min yield. more expensive though, but i would suggest 7018 on those steels. they do make t-1 rods and 11018. but its a whole lotta work preheating, post cooling and such.as far a rod storage, i buy a 50# can of 7018 and store them in those cheap little holders from HF. If they start to burn funny, i just wrap em in foil and cook em on the exhaust of my tractor for an hour or so. i keep my 309 rods and hardfacing rods in them too. never have a problem i can't cook out."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Thanks Backuproller,I didn't mean to stir up the pot.  I was just looking for some simple suggestions.  I think I will purchase both 6013 and 7018 rods for the work I am doing.  I need to weld up a hoisting rig to pick up 600 lb concrete blocks (28in x 40in x 6in) that is why I was interested in the 70xx rods.  I think I will be fine with these 2 and most likely I will use the rods fairly quickly and at worst case I have room in my gun safe to store them when I am done.  Thanks guys,Michael
Reply:7018 is over-used and over-recommended.  Sure, millions are getting by with improper storage, but there's just simply no need to do it on purpose.If you buy it and use it, even when it's old, chances are you'll not have problems.  Most weldors overweld things anyway.But I'll stir the pot and draw the fire.  Keep the 7018 for the guys that use it all as soon as it's opened or put it in the proper rod oven at the proper regulated temperature.I know, I know, it's a sweet rod to run, the temptation is just too strong...
Reply:Things might not get quite so heated if some would read for content rather than pick through for tiny holes in the fabric they can poke their fingers into and tear it apart. If one can clarify, expand or expound on something go for it. My original context and content:Well let's say for general purposes out in the shop, rod storage (lo-hi) isn't as critical as it might be in industrial or construction environment. So in this case here we're not talking about rod ovens or anything like that, just some way of reducing moisture absorption out of the ambient air. Extending the usefull life a short while. These same rods that are apparently usefull at home might very well not be acceptable on a job site.
Reply:I'll agree with your wording, certainly, Sandy.  I might add that a general-purpose to a hobbiest might at times include trailers or vehicle suspension.  I would consider those to be structural welds.  "Job site" welds may very often NOT be structural.  Again, it's obvious most get away with it, just as most tend to overweld anyway.  I just don't recommend 7018 as a general purpose rod to those without the storage equipment and training.  There are so many other suitable rods, but for some reason 7018 is the only rod in some people's vocabulary.
Reply:I'm just as guilty using 7018 for most of my welding as everyone. I just like it better. I do agree with Mac that its probably not the best Idea. I store it in the furnace room and like Zap says have never had a problem with it. I do not however weld anything structural with 7018 that has been left out of a rod oven over a couple hours. I weld alot of handrails and guardrails on docks and bridges, replace craneboom lattices and the like. In this situation you'd better follow the procedures. I open a box and it goes directly in an oven til the jobs done or the rods used up. The consequences are to great to ignore. When something does go wrong you better have you ducks in a line. It seems a little funny to me people get snippy when told they aren't following procedure yet rant about things like the B.S. that went on at the Big Dig. This is a perfect example of not doing it right. My guess is there's a whole bunch of people trying to find a hole to hide in and its going to go all the way back to the guy with the epoxy gun in his hand. If cornors were cut someone's probably going away. Rightfully so!
Reply:There are so many other suitable rods, but for some reason 7018 is the only rod in some people's vocabulary.__________________all we have in the shop is 7018 and 7024...7024 bites in my opinion..but soon enough i'll forget all about 7018..7024all that will be in my vocabulary is 70-S..4043 and 5356along with nickle 99..304 309 316 S.S.happy now?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.