I Find This Rather Odd..

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I have a strange problem..i'm not sure if its a problem or not but here goes..The other day i had some tigging to do..got set up...turned the machine on..the second i pressed the pedal down it popped the breaker..reset it..did it again.this went on for a good hr..here and there...but in the end all was well..so today i had lots to do...so i started the machine and just let it run for 45 min or so before i began..the whole day..it preformed flawlessly..and i welded a ton at "full throttle" my question is ...does anyone else have to let the machine "warm up" like a car on a cold day before it has "get up and go?"??...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:We have an old stick welder at work that runs better after we let it warm up.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:That would be a good question for a very good electrician or electrical engineer. It might have to do with the inverters/converters warming up and the draw they have versus being cold. I've always wondered this myself.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I would suspect the breakers. Pull them out and reset them. If there is any corosion the resetting can clean it off.This was a problem for me one (not with a welder) and resetting fixed it temporarily. It started again and I noticed the breaker was warm after tripping so I replaced it. Never had the problem again.Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerI would suspect the breakers. Pull them out and reset them. If there is any corosion the resetting can clean it off.This was a problem for me one (not with a welder) and resetting fixed it temporarily. It started again and I noticed the breaker was warm after tripping so I replaced it. Never had the problem again.Bob
Reply:Now that I think back to our camp issue we had a few months back...we had a similar issue - breaker popping every 10 minutes or so. Thought it was the breakers, we back and forth replacing crap. It ended up being the line between the electrical pole and the RV. It was underground and moisture/water had gotten in the connection. So, something is probably grounding out - bad line, bad connection, bad receptacle. Any other equipment in the area ?John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:well zap we got a small miller tig that some times you press the pedal and it works and some times you press and it sounds like it going to blow up ,if it was at home i think it would take out a fuseChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:First, I'm betting that the 45 minute warm up didn't have anything to do with it working flawlessly that day. Probably coincidence.Before you got that welder did it sit for an extended period of time? Since you got it, has anyone done any work to it such as; go through and check and clean all the contacts in the contactors; go through and clean and tighten all of the connections on terminal strips and cable lugs;and check & clean any switches?It's not as big a job as it sounds. All cable and wiring connections need to be clean and tight, and the contactors all need to have good (Not Burned) clean contacts.This is what I would do before anything else when looking for an "Intermittent" problem like this.Patrick
Reply:Hey Zap, no offense, but I saw the pics of your shop in another thread. Take the cover off that machine and blow the dust out. I mean the metal grinding dust and debris that is magnetized inside it.Weldtek
Reply:Hey chopper5, take the cover off your foot pedal. Unplug it first! Take a pencil eraser (big one) and erase the carbon build up on the windings where the "dohickey" runs up and down. They all get scored up after awhile. And I honestly forgot the proper name of the "dohickey". Help?Weldtek
Reply:WiperPatrick
Reply:Thanks.Weldtek
Reply:rheostat..i know the shop is not the cleanest place but i'm very "protective" of it..i went thru it when i got it..i'll keep an eye on it... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Keep an eye out for other symptoms too and let us know.I forgot about the rheostat or potentiometer in the foot pedal. The carbon wiper in those can collect a lot of grime and make them act flaky too.I perform P.M.s on transformers, drive cabinets, motor control centers, and opperator stations twice a year. I tighten terminals on wiring terminal-strips and retorque all heavy cable lugs. I also look for corrosion. (That's a big one)It's amazing how everyone can tell when I get behind or haven't had a chance to do this for a while because we start getting mysterious "nuisance trips" on things that don't seem to have anything wrong with them.Patrick
Reply:Doohickey could it be a Rotary Potentiometer or a Rheostat.Once I had to work with an on gain,off again welding  machine.I had the sparky put a multi meter on it. He found that an onboard fuse ,one of those ceramic and metalic end case jobbies. had a dry solder joint in the connection.After a replacement fuse it went like a beauty.Grahame
Reply:somebody mentioned up above to check the breaker.  I've seen this happen before....most people think breakers are bomb-proof and 99% of the time they are but they can fail in strange ways, even new ones.  If it happens again I'd swap the breaker for one from some other piece of gear you know is working....see if either your tig plant or the other machine "acts up"...
Reply:A breaker will only trip if the arc voltage is stronger than the spring(s) that are in the breaker. There are several ways this will happen.First, your welder is drawing more amps than the breaker is rated for. For example your welder draws 60 amps on a 50 amp breaker. Any motor will draw more current when it is old than new. They become less efficient over time as the windings wear out. For this situation the breaker will trip after a short delay. Solution, install a motor starter breaker. Never replace a breaker with a larger size. The breaker is sized to the cable not the equipment. Second, the breaker is not preforming to spec. Can happen. Replace breaker.Third, you have a dead short. The breaker will trip emmediately. Have the welders power supply checked.Fourth, This one is difficult to check for. Your welders power supply is not drawing equally for both legs. For example you notice to get the right heat your welder is set higher than what is typical. This will result in a fairly slow trip (seconds Vs. miliseconds).Fifth, and this one is very common if you use your breaker like a light switch, the springs have weakened. Again replace the breaker.Never ignore a breaker that trips by resetting it and moving on. They are there to protect your shop from burnibg down not electrical shock like some people beleive.
Reply:Originally Posted by hdwood.....Any motor will draw more current when it is old than new. They become less efficient over time as the windings wear out......
Reply:the main spring on the winder for the windings?? armature or brushes??
Reply:I don't know whether the "windings wear out" or not but it's possible that old, dirty machinery could draw more current than a clean new machine of the same design. That could be due to just plain dirt mixed with metal particles from the welding shop locale causing additional ground paths. Also capacitors break down through time and tend to leak and sometimes soak up more juice tham formerly. Just a guess but I've popped a few breakers in my day with dirty old machinery. . A good cleaning (nothing personal, mind you...heh heh) and it might change things a bit.
Reply:The windings are the thin copper wires that is wound around the armature. Here is more information http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks3/armature/index.html.
Reply:Originally Posted by hdwood They become less efficient over time as the windings wear out.
Reply:I used to build houses for a living and I do know that in the winter time when the tools were cold they did trip the breakers more frequently.
Reply:Originally Posted by jdwelderI used to build houses for a living and I do know that in the winter time when the tools were cold they did trip the breakers more frequently.
Reply:Gee, when I was an Electronics Tech in an R&D lab at Lockheed aircraft, we used to blame this sort of thing on the software....Alternatively, I tell people my computer's slow because the tubes haven't completely warmed up.Originally Posted by RichardWDFGee, when I was an Electronics Tech in an R&D lab at Lockheed aircraft, we used to blame this sort of thing on the software....Alternatively, I tell people my computer's slow because the tubes haven't completely warmed up.
Reply:Turned out i needed a 100 amp breaker..not the 60 that was installed originally... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sober_PollockWhat???????????????????????????
Reply:...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:lol!! Nice when it turns out to be simple. I was going to suggest your widget support may have been the culprit, or possibly the internal skyhook picking up moisture. Alls well that ends well I suppose.Last edited by Clanweld; 11-30-2006 at 09:48 AM.If you don't have the time to do it right, then you definitely don't have the time to do it over.