How important continuous setting vs ABCD

admin

Is it really worth getting the SP135+ vs the SP135T (or any of the other many names it is known as)?And while we are at it, Is the Power Mig 140 with its alleged "Diamond Core" going to be appreciably better than the 135 or the Pro-Mig 140?  It comes both ways, tapped or continuous.These are all basically the same just with these seemingly small differences.  I just want to know what the reality of these extra features is.Thanks,Mike
Reply:Well I am going to take a stab at answering my own question and then someone can shoot me down if I am wrong.  I am thinking that the continuous power setting is not very important unless you are working on very thin material.  Is that about right?  Also, what is this setting actually?  Is it setting the voltage?Thanks,Mike
Reply:I have worked with both type machines.  I prefer the continuous models and feel they are worth the extra.  I am currently using a Millermatic 175.  I could have saved some money by going with the Hobart tapped model.  Maybe the fine tuning aspect is more important for operator confidence than any practical difference.If I had a fixed amount I could spend on a machine I might go with a tapped model if it got me a significantly more powerful machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by MigionI am thinking that the continuous power setting is not very important unless you are working on very thin material.  Is that about right?  Also, what is this setting actually?  Is it setting the voltage?
Reply:Always (this is my opinion) go for the continious contols.... the ability to fine tune a machine is very important..... Why would you limit youself in the first place? Would you buy a car that had predetermined degrees of steering 0, -22.5,+22.5, -45, +45 and so on? No you wouldn't... How about three brake setting, low, moderate and full? No you wouldn't... EVERYTHING in welding is a variable. The more you can consistantly repeat any given variable will result in your welding being more consistant. Sometimes the difference between running a wire flat and out of position is a small change in the amperage or volts.... sometimes the changes I make to my machine are a half a volt on the OVC. In the end ... having a machine with limitations may be limiting to you._________________Chris
Reply:I like having continuous voltage adjustment.  You're right, it is more beneficial when welding thin materials, and aluminum too, but it's so nice to just reach over and turn the dial to adjust it in small increments.   I also like having meters that show how many volts and inches per minute are being set and show actual volts and amps for the weld too.  It makes fine tuning and repeating the settings alot easier.   That said, I am still quite happy with the HTP welder I've had for the last 15 years that has tapped voltage adjustment and no meters.  I'm just spoiled from welding on the  $4500 Millermatic 350P push-pull machines we have at work .
Reply:Lorenzo, can you check and see if there is a recall on my f-450. seems the only setting i got in the brakes was full."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Originally Posted by lorenzoWould you buy a car that had predetermined degrees of steering 0, -22.5,+22.5, -45, +45 and so on? No you wouldn't... How about three brake setting, low, moderate and full?
Reply:Originally Posted by VisorblueI don't know how that translates to welding anymore than getting in an elevator with a continuous dial instead of buttons for floors or a car with a continuously variable transmission as opposed to gears. Some times set points/taps are a good thing.
Reply:I'm with Lorenzo on this one.I have an SP125P, an SP135P and (2) PowerMIG 200's.I really wish the 200's had the continuous setting that my little 125&135's have.I love the tunability, especially when I'm welding roll cages or bumpers. Fine tuning of the weld is a lot easier with the variable control.But like DesertRider, I still love my my PowerMIG 200's and use them almost daily, Tap selector or not.The key is finding out how to tune a Tap welder to your liking and hand speed/style. I think it's a lot easier for a beginner to learn with a continuous control as they aren't limited to preset parameters and can concentrate on technique rather than settings.- PaulLast edited by ZTFab; 01-19-2007 at 12:28 PM.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by lorenzoSame thing with a car.... in a standard I have full control of when the car shifts up or down.... not in an automatic that is just put in drive and not manually shfted.
Reply:I appreciate all the discussion about this.  I have been considering all of this info and then I remembered a recent post about "welding with car batteries" using among other things a thing call the ReadyWelder.  I looked at the thing and basically it just clamps onto some batteries.  Talk about a "tapped" setting!  It has no setting at all.  Yet it claims "30A to 300A" range (in another place it claims 45A to 345A).  Anyway I wondered "how do they do that?".  So this is what the manual says:"4.) Does the wire feed speed control knob adjust the amperage level fed to the electrode?The wire feed speed control knob directly affects amperage based upon the speed and physical volume of wire being fed to the bead. The amount of wire fed to the bead is directly proportional to the ultimate amperage level delivered to the weld. The diameter of the feed wire will also affect the total amperage level delivered to the welding bead. The larger the wire the hotter it will burn as with the faster the feed rate the hotter the weld."So it would seem that on a tapped welder you could fine tune your amperage by adjusting your wire speed.  This would explain all the people with tapped units that say "I love my (insert model # of welder) it does a great job".I imagine a talented weldor (sp?) could do better with a car battery than I could do with a good MIG.Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by MigionSo it would seem that on a tapped welder you could fine tune your amperage by adjusting your wire speed.  This would explain all the people with tapped units that say "I love my (insert model # of welder) it does a great job".
Reply:I have one of the first Lincoln sp-100s that came out. I am always fine tuning to get the best penetration I can without burning through.
Reply:If you can get a continuous voltage machine, then I would thnk that would be the thing to do. I bought an SP175+ on the internet because the local retai box stores only sell the tapped machines. My TIG welder has continuous voltage control and i wanted the same thing for my MIG welder. Certianly you can do good welding wiheither type but it's very helpful to be able to make very small changes in voltage.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:On the Millermatic 350P at work, when welding the thin aluminum without the pulse on, I find myself adjusting the voltage in 0.1 volt increments and wire speed in 5 ipm or less increments to achieve the weld attributes I'm looking for.   This is on production parts that I have made the same welds over and over several thousand times over the years so I can feel slight differences in the machine adjustments fairly easily.   Even so, It's amazing how much difference a 1/10th of a volt can make!
Reply:How about the electrical characteristics of the circuitry that provides the adjustability, whether it's a continuous pot or selective taps?  How does the response and influence of that circuit affect the performance of the welder?Any EE's here??
Reply:A friend of mine works in a fabrication plant right next to my house.They fabricate lawn equipment. He pulles his hair out, he has no controlls over his machine, its a commecial MIG unit with 4 work stations off of one set of controls. With as many as 4 units with 16 welders posable at once. When eveyone stricks a arc at about the same time the voltage is jumping all over the place. The service wireing in this place was never set up or this kind of a load. So just as hes welding ok some one will stop welding and he burns threw. Talk about a difficult weld, but he makes quota every day. If I remenber right its like 150 or 200 hand trucks a day. That him and a welders helper. You can find his handy work at any Wal-mart store, that there big account. We tells me you have to know your machine inside and out to weld under these extrem conditions. I would say hes a master at travel speed and arc distence when welding for thats the only control he has.
Reply:Originally Posted by lorenzoIf it is running too hot or cold now you have to adjust your arc length and make up for what could be as simple as knocking your voltage up or down a couple of volts. It makes a difference.
Reply:I realize that continuously variable voltage can be an advantage, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.  If it were, the Millermatic 210 (a tapped model), wouldn't be the most recommended welder on this, and every other, welding forum.  Lately, in the 175-180 amp range, the most recommended model is the Hobart Handler 187, another tapped model!Last edited by BigEd36; 01-21-2007 at 04:26 PM.When the  drops the  stops!Check out my website at:  Tombstone 180 ACHandler 120Millermatic 210Powermax 380Harris & Victor torchesSawzallChop Saw
Reply:Originally Posted by BigEd36I realize that continuously variable voltage can be an advantage, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.  If it were, the Millermatic 210 (a tapped model), wouldn't be the most recommended welder on this, and every other, welding forum.  Lately, in the 175-180 amp range, the most recommended model is the Hobart Handler 187, another tapped model!
Reply:Originally Posted by lorenzomy whole point is why limit yourself to having to work within pre set parameters? For a few dollars more you can have full range of motion... to make slight adjustments.
Reply:Originally Posted by VisorblueTrue, both of those have taps but both are also 7-position taps vs. 4-positions of the welders originally being discussed (Lincoln SP135T and SP135 Plus and Power Mig 140T and 140C). Maybe those extra three taps is a big help otherwise why would the Hobart 180 which is a 4-position tap unit be upgraded to the 187, a seven tapped unit (yes, I know there are other changes, too)? And, if the extra taps are an advantage then wouldn't continuous be even better?Hay, I've been convinced on continuous voltage control, don't screw with my head, it's loose enough already!  Someone told me that a way around not getting low enough power in a tapped 110v welder to stop burning through thin metal is to either use a lower rated extension cord or to plug in a fan or something into the same 110v outlet to cut back on the current the welder gets.
Reply:Originally Posted by BigEd36The HTP Mig 200 and Mig 240 welders seem to have a very good reputation, and they're both...........yep, you guessed it..........tapped welders, with 24 taps!!  I may have just made your point for you!