i hate stick welding

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as the title suggests i hate it. you have to always chip slag off, striking an arc for a newb like me is hard although i getting the hang of it.is there anyone on these forums who can actually say why stick welding is better than any other electric welding process (apart from the cost of migs)
Reply:I can't comment on the other processes because I've never tried them. Haven't felt the need to. I'm just do projects around the house and I find stick is so simple. All I do is turn the machine on and pick a rod. I like not having to bother with gas. On a good weld, the slag comes off in one piece. Are there some things I can't do with stick? Yep. Are they things I want to do? Nope. Maybe one day I'll want to do more complicated things, but for now stick is fine (and cheap).Scott
Reply:Perhaps you should take a mig/tig outside in a slight breeze and try some overhead and vertical welding. Chipping slag off won't seem so bad then.                 MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:If you stick weld there is cleanup after the weld, If you mig or tig weld there is cleaning before the weld. Cleaning is just part of the process. I own all three types of machines and I do 90% of my welding with stick
Reply:Originally Posted by geoff390as the title suggests i hate it. you have to always chip slag off, striking an arc for a newb like me is hard although i getting the hang of it.is there anyone on these forums who can actually say why stick welding is better than any other electric welding process (apart from the cost of migs)
Reply:Like others have said, stick has a purpose and serves it very very well. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I have a mig. a tig. an Oxy./Ace. and a Stick machine and use them all frequently. The very first welder I ever used was a Lincoln 300 amp transformer circa 1960 something, it wasn't very forgiving to work with, but if you kept the arc length right and moved at just the right speed, you could make a beutiful weld, the slag would just curl up as it cooled and reveal a stack of dimes beneath, I just wish I would have thought to keep some of those practice peices. The point of that trip down memory lane was that I'm very glad I learned on a stick machine, it's so basic, the arc is all you have to worry about, get that right and slag becomes a non issue. Trust me, if you practice with stick, then move to a mig. your welds will be better because of it. So is stick better than other arc welding methods, nope, it's just different, but equally usefull given the right aplication.
Reply:My list:1) goes anywhere2) inexpensive equipment3) can run in any position, pretty much no matter how awkward. 14" up a 3" pipe? no prob. bend the last 2" of the stick over, use a narrow holder, and go to it. A mirror helps too. Try that with MIG.4) Can run a lot of matrials easily that are difficult with MIG.5) Faster than TIG6) works underwater
Reply:The more I mig. The more I like stick welding.   I work outside a lot.  With stick I have fewer things to be concerned about.  Electrode and amperage.  Keep practicing.  7018 and 6013 rods produce little spatter and have easily removable slag.Proper grounding and correct amperage will eliminate sticking.  Don't neglect proper grounding grind an area to contact your work.  Make things easy on yourself.  Get comfortable while practing.  Use two hands. Brace yourself so you so you are steady.  Everybody goes through what you are experiencing.
Reply:I believe that those 6010 and 6011 rods penetrate better than anything Ive seen yet. (Im new too so.. take that as you will).  When do you guys know when the job calls for a diging rod like these (If I had a choice, Id weld everything with 7018).Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:My only complaint with stick is the size of the rigs. They are heavier and bulkier than a comparable mig but so what? As stated, the advantages are great.Craftsman 230a Buzz-box,  Lincoln 140T & 180T, Century K2789, PUROX W202 O/A14" cheapo chop saw that cuts straight and square!A toolbox of the cheapest Chinese tools money can buy"Real" tools all old reliable Husky/Craftsman/Proto stuff
Reply:With inverters the size/weight swing in favor of the stick welder.  I have a 7 lbs 80  stick amp stick welder.  You'll always have a motor/feed assembly on a wire feeder hence extra weight/size.  I would think inverters under 50 lbs can match 200+ amps/150lbs buzz box amperages.
Reply:It's possible to do some beautiful welds with stick. When I took my one-year weldng class, they taught all positions in stick and the instructor considered it a basic art, like Oxy/acet. that every welder should know. All of the reasons above are valid for using stick. I like it because it will work on metal with rust scale and it is very fast.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:It doesn't get any better than burning rods with a stick welder.Clarke 130EN C25Lincoln 225 AC Stick(1968)Smith O/A RigHF 4X6 Red BandsawBlack & Decker Pro Chopsaw16 Speed Drill PressSpeedglas XL HelmetHarbor Freight Stuff
Reply:Originally Posted by geoff390as the title suggests i hate it. you have to always chip slag off, striking an arc for a newb like me is hard although i getting the hang of it.is there anyone on these forums who can actually say why stick welding is better than any other electric welding process (apart from the cost of migs)
Reply:Tommyj3 is right.  No wire feed problems, no gas, no surprises.  Buy yourself a cheap angle grinder and put a twisted wire wheel on it.  one quick pass and the slag is gone.
Reply:Hey geoff390,I believe zapsters' first line in his response is really the summation of your attitude towards a welding technique, and for all other welding techniques. Hating a technique doesn't solve the problem....attitude, a "hunger" to learn, doing some research/study, and most importantly...PRACTICE!!!! Welding is a craft you will not learn overnight....if you don't have the patience or desire to learn, you're just wasting time. I constantly read the "newbies" posts here and on other forums who think they can just just go buy a welder, any welder, and BANG!!!.....I can weld. Get a grip on some hard reality and make a concerted effort to want to learn....those who are experienced here offer their years of welding know-how to help and guide you "newbies" so you can also get proficient and one day maybe call yourself a welder....even a part-time welder. The fusion of metal is an artform.....learn the different styles and appreciate art. After 42 years of welding, I still learn....because I want to......DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Personally, I like to MIG and TIG(well... more like TRY and TIG) then i do Stick, but i am only working with 1/8" stuff. When i use 7014s and 7018s, the slag isn't too bad, they always chip off in big chunks... And as others have already said, there's less to worry about, just set amps and go!The only thing i dont like about Stick welding is having to change the rod alot....-Clarke 130EN-Miller MaxStar 150STL-Miller Elite 29' Roadster
Reply:Originally Posted by ThunderRoboPersonally, I like to MIG and TIG(well... more like TRY and TIG) then i do Stick, but i am only working with 1/8" stuff. When i use 7014s and 7018s, the slag isn't too bad, they always chip off in big chunks... And as others have already said, there's less to worry about, just set amps and go!The only thing i dont like about Stick welding is having to change the rod alot....
Reply:aaahhhhh, nuthin like the smell of burnin flux and the crisp sound of eggs frying in the mornin. ha. ha. ha.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelder I would think inverters under 50 lbs can match 200+ amps/150lbs buzz box amperages.
Reply:theres lots to love about stick welding like today at work I had to tack up a side for a 40ft tipper like the one in the pic each red line is a join its a hell of alot quick to tack these's up with the stick than a mig you don't need to keep moving your stick welder like you do a mig and nearly as quick to weld them with stick as well as you have to weld them in step's to stop bowing bending twisting and all that nice stuff Creative metal Creative metal Facebook
Reply:Stick welding pays my bills. TIG is nice work when it comes up, and MIG is ok, but most of this world was built with a stinger.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:We get paid by the hour don't we? Tapwelder.  I have an invertec V350 Weighs 87 lbs.  Puts out 425 amps or 45 volts CC/CV.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:My take:1  Equipment is relatively cheap;2  Consumables are relatively cheap;3  Weld quality is generally good;4  For general project construction, weld appearance is "good enough";5  As long as there's power, you can weld there (pretty much...).My old man taught me to weld, and you started with stick and OA. Once you could do stick and OA to his satisfaction (destructive testing!), you were permitted to use the MIG and TIG. His view was that you learn things like positions, movements, fillers and current settings WITHOUT having to worry about the technology  - there's less between you and the job to distract.I still use stick for most of my welding - essentially anything that isn't sheet metal I do by stck.
Reply:...and on the second day, God made grinders with wire wheels. Hit Harbor Freight and buy one.And like a bunch of the other guys, I have MIG and stick (both 110v units) and have used my little HF 80A inverter stick machine the most as of late.If you're stuggling, either get someone who knows how to stick weld to give you a few pointers or take a class (that's where I really learned how to stick weld).DaveIt seems much easier to trust stick strength, when it counts. I have mig,tig, and stick . Anytime I need real strength&integrity i always go to stick, and nothing beats a pure d c generator. (for low hydrogen or mild steel (6010 ) .Just for fun , everybody ought to try once some 7024 on a big ac machine- just make sure of a good fitup & clean prep job,on some thick steel.on a flat weld , it's something else.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:5/32 7024 ON AC ROCKS!  For flat welding, its faster than MIG and looks better.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:when i was in the pipefitters union , stick welding was pretty much the only thing used for everything and we even used stick for most of the stainless ( except very high pressure stainless ) last i knew stick and tig were the only things excepted on nuclear power plants stick requires such basic equipment , all positions , beautiful welds if done right , and cheap to run , the shop i work at has everything you could ever want for welding and building and we use mostly all stick , 7018  also think of it this way , your on a job site and your weld has to be made 200 feet away from the machine ( a gas machine not a little baby ) all you have to do is drag out your leads and start burning . yeah i know one of them new little welders could be brought to the weld but its not alway that easy
Reply:Originally Posted by David R5/32 7024 ON AC ROCKS!  For flat welding, its faster than MIG and looks better.David
Reply:[QUOTE=SizeOn also think of it this way , your on a job site and your weld has to be made 200 feet away from the machine ( a gas machine not a little baby ) all you have to do is drag out your leads and start burning . [/QUOTE]  I have pulled over 500' of lead down 3 flights of stairs to do things.It is not that uncommon.
Reply:Sorry, I got here late. I did some stick this last weekend. For the last four years it has been only mig and tig. I had so much freakin fun. It really is a basic art. Not everyone can do it well which makes the rest of us feel better. Keep practicing because it will be worth it.Bill
Reply:As you get better welding you won't hate it, ya learn to love a beautiful weave, nice and even. Takes practice. Check out the local community college and get in some of the begining classes and learn to do it RIGHT. Otherwise you will understand why it's called "stick" welding as you spend half the afternoon breaking your rod off the piece of metal. Been welding for alot of years, stick is my favorite and every new workplace, I meet a welder that's been at it longer than me and I learn something new. Don't give up.
Reply:1) Here in the USofA we're allowed to hate anything, & that's great & it's worth defending, isn't it?2) I hate stick, too, but I forced myself to learn to use it (sort of).3) Every welding process has its own strengths & weaknesses.  Said another way:  no single process can do everything.4) The more processes you become proficient in using, the more you are in demand -- & the more $$ you can make.5) Learn to be 'the welder who can', & you'll be on top of all the whiners."The day you're happy with your welding is the day you stop getting better."g
Reply:Where I work we have MIG in the shop and stick on the trucks. MIG in the shop for a few reasons: It's not too hard to hire someone off the street with no experience at $10 an hour and teach them MIG. With some practice, most people can get the hang of MIG in a reasonably short time. Since we mainly use 1/8 inch steel, good penetration is not difficult to do.Close the overhead doors, and wind is not an issue. Less mess. How many stick butts would be on the floor from doing 24+ feet of solid weld on one can? On the other hand, we have stick welders on the trucks because they have the advantages on the road:Usually outside, so you're at the mercy of the weather(which can get pretty brutal here in Upstate NY).Convenience. You may not be able to get the truck very close to what you need to do. I have 100 foot leads on mine. I can't imagine having to drag out that much MIG lead every time, and you'd have to uncoil the whole thing every time to get consistent wire feed( our MIGs the spool is on the machine, not the gun).Don't need that bottle of Argon, already have Oxy and Acetylene for the cutting torches.Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Reply:Originally Posted by geoff390as the title suggests i hate it. you have to always chip slag off, striking an arc for a newb like me is hard although i getting the hang of it.is there anyone on these forums who can actually say why stick welding is better than any other electric welding process (apart from the cost of migs)
Reply:[quote=SizeOnalso think of it this way , your on a job site and your weld has to be made 200 feet away from the machine ( a gas machine not a little baby ) all you have to do is drag out your leads and start burning . [/QUOTE]I have pulled over 500' of lead down 3 flights of stairs to do things.It is not that uncommon. ]TEK , i was using that as an advantage of smaw compared to the others . ive had to pull over 200 feet up many flights of stairs during a shutdown at a building then back down to the basement , then back up again so i know its not uncommon but it is a huge advantage
Reply:I learned welding withy a mig welder. I thought it was pretty neat (110 miller machine then a 220 lincoln) I then worked a bit with the tig welder. I finally bought me a stick welder and I have to say its my favorite type of welding. My grandpa was a welder for years and years. He welded in world war 2 and one day my dad bought him a 220 lincoln mig welder and my grandpa said how it was a piece of garbage. He welded everything with his stick welder and I see why they are so useful and I think way more versatile than any other type of welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by JeffBConvenience. You may not be able to get the truck very close to what you need to do. I have 100 foot leads on mine. I can't imagine having to drag out that much MIG lead every time, and you'd have to uncoil the whole thing every time to get consistent wire feed( our MIGs the spool is on the machine, not the gun).Don't need that bottle of Argon, already have Oxy and Acetylene for the cutting torches.Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Reply:I don't think my boss would spend the money. In the shop I use a 240V Miller Deltaweld 300 because I'm the new guy. The other 2 guys have 460V Deltaweld 302's(seem the same except theirs have digital displays). On the truck I have a Lincoln Ranger 8. Usually on the road it's just tacking stuff together so it can get back to the shop to be done right.
Reply:Originally Posted by SizeOnI have pulled over 500' of lead down 3 flights of stairs to do things.It is not that uncommon. ]TEK , i was using that as an advantage of smaw compared to the others . ive had to pull over 200 feet up many flights of stairs during a shutdown at a building then back down to the basement , then back up again so i know its not uncommon but it is a huge advantage
Reply:Stick Welding Rules,for Me Stick Is Easier Than Mig.its Cheap And Strong,and I Like The Variety Of Rods,No Trade Is Easy,try To Tackle The Harder Stuff First And Then Everything Will Seem Much Easier After.For Me ,mig Welding Can Be Annoying With The Gas,wire Feeding,I Barely Touch My Mig Ever Since I Got My Stick Machines.LINCOLN IDEALARC 250LINCOLN AC/DC 225/125FRANKENSTEIN HOBART 300 AMP ACMILLERMATIC 130LINCOLN PRO MIG 175CENTURY 110V STICKSMITH TORCH SETUP
Reply:I have been welding for several years 10 to be exact, I still learn new tips and tricks everyday I crank my machine. I have welded on my own, for production shops, and even ran couple of local steel shops. My experience tells me:1.) stick commands more money than fluxcore or mig2.) stick is slower than fluxcore or mig3.) stick is an art not learned overnight, it can take years to develop or you can have natural talent.4.) all processes can be equally frustrating.5.) while fluxcore can run all position and do it very well, there is in my mind no substitute for stick when going out of positionOk I am kind of biased when it comes to stick, money is my motivation. I also love doing what so many others complain about!First off a good stick weldor with his own rig can command $50.00 + per hour with a 2-4 hr minimum. Good single hand stick weldors can command $20-$25 per hour. I have read alot on here about 7018 and yes it is a damn good rod, but if you are having trouble try running the 6010 5P+ they are a little more forgiving in my mind. Once you get decent with these start moving up to the 70's, keep in mind that proper technique and especially arc length can and will affect you weld drastically. One of the most important things to remember is this is not a race, slow down and take your time especially with the 70's and you will get a very nice tight bead and in my opinion you make a 70 series just as nice and tight as mig.About 2 years into the trade I thought I was a decent weldor and when on one weld test I was very surprised to see what they wanted. Here is a little test I was given in lateral thought and technique. Before I was allowed to take my real weld test I was asked to cap a piece of 3/4" 16ga square tubing to the point that it looked good and held water. I was only allowed to use the said tubing and a 7018 no cutting and folding cap it as if it were a hole and you had no scrap. I would have to say there isn't much structural quality but then again it was a test to see how one would deal with a frustrating situation. Hang in there and remember THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ARC TIME.Just my two centsBuilding mudtanks and other oilfield equipment day by grueling day.---------------------------------------------------Victor preformerMillermatic 251Miller Thunderbolt 225Too many grinders and the likeGone but not forgotten Miller Bobcat 250Comming soon Lincoln Ranger 250
Reply:If you can't drive a stick shift, you're not a real driver.
Reply:Hey, nobody said stick was easy.  When I started college I walked in and thought "Stick is old, uncomplicated, it must be easy."Haha, nope.  I learned I was wrong.  My teacher taught me that it is the trickiest of all welding processes to master.  Much harder than tig.  With TIG you can pick the pace and see your puddle.  With 7018 you match the pace set by your machine/rod/material etc... and if you don't keep pace, your weld is crap.  With 7018 you can't see your puddle, depending on what position you are welding you need to keep a precise angle to the workpiece, you need to keep a precise arc gap at all times.  It's a two handed process that requires you to keep a long rod completely stable from a distance.My point is, it's hard.  But without it there would be many welding jobs that would be completely impossible if not very very time consuming and difficult.  I can recall a specific job where we were welding 20' beneath the surface of the Skagit River here in Washington.  We were in a coffer dam made of sheet pile.  A flood hit and tore the place up and water was pouring in from all over and we needed to weld underwater to fix all these holes.  6010 and 6011 wrapped in electrical tape was the only process that would do the trick.  Even on the dry parts there was so much rust and grease and who knows what on this old pile equipment that no wire wheel would clean it up enough to MIG it properly.Even in ideal conditions stick has it's purposes.  In tight spots as someone was stating for welding inside of a pipe.  Also when running dual shield at work there are impurities that are boiled out of the other side of the joint and causes tons of wormholes and porosity. So the best and quickest way of solving this is to run some 6010 rod, boil the junk out on that root pass then run a hot pass of Dual Shield over it and you have a perfectly strong pure weld.Just some examples I could think of on the fly, there are MANY others.
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleI believe that those 6010 and 6011 rods penetrate better than anything Ive seen yet. (Im new too so.. take that as you will).  When do you guys know when the job calls for a diging rod like these (If I had a choice, Id weld everything with 7018).
Reply:All good points! I just picked up my Stick & Semi Automatic Structural Cert., this morning in downtown L.A. You gotta be stick qualified first to have wire added to your stick cert., at least in Los Angeles.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleI believe that those 6010 and 6011 rods penetrate better than anything Ive seen yet. (Im new too so.. take that as you will).  When do you guys know when the job calls for a diging rod like these (If I had a choice, Id weld everything with 7018).
Reply:i love stick welding its all i mainly use even though we have 5000 dollars worth of mig in the workshop .arc is more trusted for strength.welds dirty rusty greasy steel.i have one in my ute with a diesel engine and it welds anywhere i want it to.ease of changing materials to weld , change rod and settings and bingo there ya go ready to weld soemthign different.its a skill to be able to use it.cheap to run. thats my 20 cents worth  , but everyone has different opinions
Reply:Originally Posted by sam -ozarc is more trusted for strength.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverAll good points! I just picked up my Stick & Semi Automatic Structural Cert., this morning in downtown L.A. You gotta be stick qualified first to have wire added to your stick cert., at least in Los Angeles.