115v Extension Cord

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Well, i did do a tad of searching on here, but due to limited time and having to weld this afternoon on a customer's Jeep, I need to clarify something QUICK.  I've been using one of those orange "outdoor" style grounded 3 prong extension cords on my MillerMatic 135.  Now I realized there would probably be some voltage drop and whatnot, so I usually just run a tad hotter than what the work calls for.  THE QUESTION: is this extremely bad??  Should i go pick up a good 12/2 cord or something?  I'm no wiring genius, I took electronics in college long ago, but that was mostly resistors/diodes lol.  What is everyone else running on their 115v machines and what advice would ya give?  Thanks in advance guys, sorry for such a basic 101 question hehe.Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:Yes, a 12/3 cord would work much better. Pick one up in a 50ft. length and you'll be all set.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Ok, does that break down to 12 guage / 3 wire?  THANKS for your quick response!Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:10/3 or 8/3 if you can get(it aint cheap) it is even better.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Yes, that is correct. Welcome!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:OK thanks!   BIG help guys, going to the store now LOL.Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:I leave all my 14 guage cords for trouble lights.  All the tools get 12 guage.HD has had some great deals from time to time and I grab all I can.  The cords with the power indicator light build into the recepticle don't do much for me. I have a couple of spider boxes with GFCI devices that have an indicator on them and a short pigtail that do the same thing - and more.
Reply:This is a REAL nice pre-made cord: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...4939_200314939John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Ok, does that break down to 12 guage / 3 wire?
Reply:Good point Sandy. I've seen some cords that are just as 'thick' as the good ones but it isn't copper, it's just more paper wrapping.Read the label AND the wire.
Reply:Thanks a bunch gang, this is what i suspected, great info!  The last thing i want to do is something blatantly wrong, I didn't get a chance to hit the store yet (stupid family photo day), but I'll get there tomorrow, I think the Jeep guy backed out haha.  Really appreciate the help!Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:The best price I know of right now on a 12 gage cord is at WalMart of all places. They are yellow Woods brand and stay flexible even in freezing weather.
Reply:Sweet!  I'm not a WalMart fan though, probably go to a hardware store or something haha.Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:At my old job we would get 500 foot reels of 10/3 rubber cased wire. Just cut the length you need and put ends on it. You could go 200 to 300 feet without significant voltage drop. I can't imagine what it cost, I just got sent to Lowe's and put it on the company account.
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWelding10/3 or 8/3 if you can get(it aint cheap) it is even better.
Reply:I was waiting for something like this to happen...So what you're saying Bill, is that the NEC code is just a thick book I use to keep my table level?I guess I better rewire my shed with 22ga cat5 because I'd hate for my plasma cutter to trip that 30 amp breaker.800 bucks a month?  I have to raise the BS flag on this one.Maybe you can explain why I my 8ga extension cord don't trip the 15 amp breaker it's plugged into.  I got to hear this explanation.
Reply:What a load!!!! AWG Amareican-Wire-Gage you know the gage or diamiter of the wire. The nec National Electric Code says for a 200 amp load you can use x-awg for X- feet short runs are smaller long runs are bigger. The voltage drop you refer to does cause high amp in a welder because the lower the voltage the higher the amps to do the same thing. So a small MIG for example will try to weld a 100amps but can only do 75 while the transformer gets hot being loaded so much. So look on your welder and see what the input amps are and then decide how long you want to go and go ho home depot or even ask and electrician what AWG size you need. My 3 phase mig alows me to go 150" with 6-4 and only 50' with 12/4 and that will alow full voltage at the machine. If I were to cut that cord down to 6" it would have exactly the same voltage and amps doing the same work. Please know what you are telling people becaus somebody could get hurt or loose property. Stick to what you know and ask about the rest. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:Hay slamdvw here on St. Thomas my wise and I pay $375 a month to run 5 fans a house full of CFL's and AC from about 10pm to 7am at 76 degrees. The island just learned last week we had a 22.5% increase. which translatet to $459. So the AC is off and I run all my equipment of the generator when working at home. A local bakery just closed because they could not py the $5500 electric bill. So a group of investers who I know ask me to do all the installs of new wind turbines they are going to hopefully sell in there new buisness Wish us luck. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:AWG Amareican-Wire-Gage you know the gage or diamiter of the wire.
Reply:I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but there are a few things here that are just not quite right... Originally Posted by William McCormick JrIt is going to be stranded wire, so it might not deliver that 20 amp breaker popping hit. But if you were to run a short run of solid copper number #10 AWG wire it would blow a 15 amp breaker when the welder is engaged. Even though the appliance is only rated under 15 amps.A short run of solid #8 AWG wire will blow a 20 amp breaker. Even though the appliance is only rated under 20 amps.Lets picture a circuit, breaker box, 25ft of wire to a properly installed outlet of the proper rating, 70* temps and normal moisture.there will be no difference in the performance of the 2 wires.a wire is rated at a certain voltage and a certain amp flow.a longer run may show slightly different results but not enough to be noticed, the primary difference between the 2 wires is simply flexibility.The company I work for makes fast chargers for industrial batteries(up to 750amps at 60volts...a LOT) and we use both solid and stranded, the wires are not chosen by gauge, but by ratingif you are popping a breaker with the solid and not the stranded, this is due to the fact there is enough loss in the stranded to cause the overall draw to be less(poor connections, poor connectors, oxidation of cable(far more of a problem in stranded)In the shop we know that stranded wire does not deliver the same amps on start that solid wire does. It just cannot by the way it is made. again, not true if they are equally ratedBut even a short run of number eight AWG stranded wire, might just take out a 20 amp breaker, with a 15 amp load on start. One other rule that long time electricians still do not get is that the AWG rating is for 50-75 foot runs of wire. Longer then that and you have to get out the books and calculate the ohms or resistance loss, and possibly up the wire. On long runs of smaller then rated stranded wire, I have see welding equipment draw, over 100 amps through a 100 amp breaker for hours at a time before blowing. The wire was #4 and rated for 70 amps. It was a 125 foot run. See my comment in the following paragraphSo the breakers take into consideration more then just amps. They take into consideration voltage and amperage. The smaller stranded wire although will allow a welder to run, without tripping a breaker, will also draw many more amps, upping the electric bill to over eight hundred dollars a month for one machine, at thirty four cents a kilowatt hour. We know this for sure. This is what I find to be nearly amusing..the breakers are rated at a voltage and to "pop" at a set amperage draw.they take nothing into consideration, what you are seeing is a by-product of a poorly designed and dangerous setup.the reason for the breaker not popping is exactly why you stated in the paragraph, you were using 70amp wire and a machine with a 100 amp current draw, therefore you were wasting at least 30amps to heat...far from being a penny pinchers setup.I could see why it would cost 800 a month...you're trying to heat a building with an overloaded wire... If that machine had the right size wire run to it, it would have only drawn a quarter of the amperage. this is....closer to correct as it touches on wire size being important..but the math is way off       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:offrdfun: how much is the rate per kwh where you live?my raising the bs flag was to bill, saying that using the proper size or heaver size wire to wire up your welder would run the bill thru the roof.  Unless i WAY misunderstood it, that's what I gathered from it.not intended to start a flame war, but I don't see how running a heaver than necessary cable is going to cause the motor on the side of the house to spin... maybe I am the one whos' wrong ( wouldn't be the first time, sure won't be the last either )
Reply:You can run as big a wire as you want. What makes the meeter spin is load. I have a cord made for my Maxstar 150 that is 6-3 and I have run my dremal tool on it as well as my plasma cutter and they bothe work. If somebody needs to know the extention cord size required go to home depot by the wire rack and look in the little book. It is a wire selection guide. Determin the length you want and determin the max amps that you will be drawing and the book will tell you the size you need. When the cord is in use it will safely handle the max amps and anything drawing less. I keep 3 sizes of cord in my truck. The small cords are cheaper so we use them and save the bigger ones back. My 6-3 cord cost me $150 my pre made 18-3 cost me $8 so for one drinder we go small for the power strip we go bigger and whe welder the bigest. Here on St. Thomas I the rate is .28 and going tho .3343 with the a bunch of miss management fees on that. Kinda sucks and I have paid $4.05 for gas for 3 months now. I use about $200 to $250 a week in gas in the truck and generator and the island is only 13 miles long. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:Originally Posted by slamdvwI was waiting for something like this to happen...So what you're saying Bill, is that the NEC code is just a thick book I use to keep my table level?I guess I better rewire my shed with 22ga cat5 because I'd hate for my plasma cutter to trip that 30 amp breaker.800 bucks a month?  I have to raise the BS flag on this one.Maybe you can explain why I my 8ga extension cord don't trip the 15 amp breaker it's plugged into.  I got to hear this explanation.
Reply:Originally Posted by slamdvwI was waiting for something like this to happen...So what you're saying Bill, is that the NEC code is just a thick book I use to keep my table level?I guess I better rewire my shed with 22ga cat5 because I'd hate for my plasma cutter to trip that 30 amp breaker.800 bucks a month?  I have to raise the BS flag on this one.Maybe you can explain why I my 8ga extension cord don't trip the 15 amp breaker it's plugged into.  I got to hear this explanation.
Reply:If I understand you Mr. Mcormick, you want the extension cord to be the bottleneck for the electricity.  Put in too small of a wire and the breaker won't trip because it can't deliver the power to the machine.  For your tig machine, there is an inrush when it is first turned on.  OR your 100 amp breaker is junk.It is that simple.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.unbelievable
Reply:This is the statement in the Harbor Freight flux core welder manual.Not to insinuate that HF has safety standards higher then this forum LOL:3. Verify that the Power Switch is in the OFF position, then plug the Flux Wire Welder plug into a dedicated, 110 VAC, 20 amp line with delayed action type circuit breaker or fuses.If an extension cord is used, it must have the following wire size: up to 30 feet, use 10 AWG size wire; 30 to 50 feet, use 8 AWG wire; Over 50 feet, use 6 AWG wire.
Reply:another way to verify your situation, would be to use an amp/volt meter. this will tell you what you are actually getting at the arc. subsequently, bill is just silly. ya goofy bastard. not trying to offend, i'm sure your a marvel in a third world country.
Reply:Oh! this thread is just tooo darn funny...I am sure this can all be explained by Professor McCormick's ARC (Anode Rectified Cathode) Theory.ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:..oh no, not THAT again..
Reply:Originally Posted by Shade Tree WelderOh! this thread is just tooo darn funny...I am sure this can all be explained by Professor McCormick's ARC (Anode Rectified Cathode) Theory.ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:So if what you say is true why dont I have trouble when I run my dremal tool in my 6-3 cord that is a huge cord and a tiny grinder. It runs my welder fine to. When we would run wires we always went way bigger and just installed a smaller breaker. The reason is we had room to expand as we changed a circut we just put in bigger fuses or breakers. We ran #10 wire for a small circut and we pulled a fourth wire so we could convert it so 3phase. My point is we ran everything from a can opener in the kitchen to a 25hp production grinder on the same basic circut and there was no supercharged can opener or 5000amp draw grinders. I sugest you take a basic electrical class and stop talking till you learn it. I see what you are trying to say but you dont get it. I learned this stuff in 7th grade and we were on to more complex thing in high school you could even get a book something just learn it. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:this thread has been better entertainment than the reruns currently showing on tv. let's have some more of this highly technical advanced theory. also,since there was quite a discussion on stranded versus solid,don't use a solid extension cord on the ground if you're subject to an osha visit--they'll hang you.
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainI have a feeling I'm glad I missed that so if you soak your wire in some good old 'shine, will the current not pass as the electrons will be drunked up and moving to slow to make it to the other end?hmmmmmmm
Reply:Originally Posted by qaqcanother way to verify your situation, would be to use an amp/volt meter. this will tell you what you are actually getting at the arc. subsequently, bill is just silly. ya goofy bastard. not trying to offend, i'm sure your a marvel in a third world country.
Reply:Just use some #20 doorbell wire since it's a solid conductor, right Billy Mac?A stranded cord from SJO would NEVER work to run welding equipment. We are all wrong in our shops for doing this I suppose?Wait a minute....none of this would work since power to the structure is more than likely fede from the pole via aluminum straded wire. This would cause the liquid diode to produce ARC and blow up the welder since it attracts lightning created by Billy's family's space ships. Put another rock in the crack pipe!
Reply:Wow!I can't remember ever seeing so much bad and misleading information put out in one thread.Mr. McCormick is either totally uninformed or has, in fact, just written a new "Electrical Theory" thesus.For the benefit of the OP, I'll try to clear up a few points.Using a larger gauge extension (smaller gauge # is larger) than called for, ie using a 10/3 vs a 12/3 is generally better.  The larger wire will allow for a longer run without the voltage drop you may experience with the smaller wire.Using a larger gauge wire will not, in any way, increase the current used.  The amp draw of the tool will determine that.  Using too small a cord, on the other hand will increase the resistance in the wire, thereby causing the tool to work harder and generate more heat.  Classic case of bigger is better.  The only reason for not using a larger gauge than called for is cost and convenience of handling. (larger cords cost more and are heavier/bulkier).AC current flows over the outer circumference of the wire, be it solid or stranded.  Solid wire, of a particular gauge, will not carry more current than the same gauge stranded wire.  Wire sizes above 10 ga are generally of the stranded configuration.  Last time I checked, trying to work with 6/3 solid would be like trying to roll up a piece of 1/2" rebar.Circuit breakers are designed to protect the downstream wiring/receptacles, not the tool.  It is for this reason that the wiring and receptacles have to be of equal or greater rating than the breaker itself.  I'm sure that the OP received more information (much of it bad) than he bargained for.Bottom line, use as large a gauge extension cord as you're comfortable with (cost and bulk) and your tools will last a long time.  Mr. McCormick:Home Depot/Lowes sell a book on "Basic Electrical Theory" for about $20.  You may be well served to pick up a copy before giving anymore "electrical advice".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:For those that are interested several online calculators exist.this is a decent one. http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAC current flows over the outer circumference of the wire, be it solid or stranded.  Solid wire, of a particular gauge, will not carry more current than the same gauge stranded wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownJust use some #20 doorbell wire since it's a solid conductor, right Billy Mac?A stranded cord from SJO would NEVER work to run welding equipment. We are all wrong in our shops for doing this I suppose?Wait a minute....none of this would work since power to the structure is more than likely fede from the pole via aluminum straded wire. This would cause the liquid diode to produce ARC and blow up the welder since it attracts lightning created by Billy's family's space ships. Put another rock in the crack pipe!
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownJust use some #20 doorbell wire since it's a solid conductor, right Billy Mac?A stranded cord from SJO would NEVER work to run welding equipment. We are all wrong in our shops for doing this I suppose?Wait a minute....none of this would work since power to the structure is more than likely fede from the pole via aluminum straded wire. This would cause the liquid diode to produce ARC and blow up the welder since it attracts lightning created by Billy's family's space ships. Put another rock in the crack pipe!
Reply:Bill,When exactly was the last time you were "abducted"?Was it because you left your tin foil cap at home that day?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:so not only does larger wire create more amperage, it also has its own capacitance as well, quite the interesting theory, I was especially impressed with the "no power required" fridge analogy.I realize that you believe these theorys but they are better suited for the Darwin awards, not an online forum. Your information is flawed at best, ill-informed, and well.....dangerous...I tried reading your posts to perhaps see a bit of info in it that seemed researched and thought out...but I have found...you owe me 3 advil and a beer instead..
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainso not only does larger wire create more amperage, it also has its own capacitance as well, quite the interesting theory, I was especially impressed with the "no power required" fridge analogy.I realize that you believe these theorys but they are better suited for the Darwin awards, not an online forum. Your information is flawed at best, ill-informed, and well.....dangerous...I tried reading your posts to perhaps see a bit of info in it that seemed researched and thought out...but I have found...you owe me 3 advil and a beer instead..
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrIf you don't know there is perpetual motion you cannot understand electricity.
Reply:so.... I usually have the radio and tv on when I'm out in the garage working....and a very fitting thing came on....
Reply:Bill: you a friend of Dennis Lee?
Reply:LOL thanks for your posts gang, I really appreciate all the help!  Basically, what I've taken from this thread is:1. I'm better off using a 12/3 extension cord rather than my "backyard orange one", a 10/3 if I can afford it.Excellent!Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:Yes, glad you could sort through all that! :cheers:John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by dan sI can't take it anymore...Please stop posting, before someone actually listens to you and gets injured.P.S.The concept of perpetual motion breaks several LAWS of physics, hence the reason only crack pots and conspiracy theorists believe in it.