Help! How to weld cloth hangers together

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Hello, I am a student given a project to build a bridge out of wire cloth hanger.  I have tried welding for the first time ever and was unsuccessful in welding the metal wires together.  I need some help!!!!I used the oxygen and acetyne (not sure on the spelling) but everytime I try to melt the wires, it would become red then suddenly melt and liquify.  Then it drop like a drop of water hardening before it hits the ground.  Is there anyone out there that can provide me any helpful hints?!  I know it can be done...but for some reason it's just not happening for me.
Reply:do have to weld it ? can you braze or solder itChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:What size welding tip are you using? and, what number shade of welding shield or goggles?One of my first "Projects" was, (I was about 12-13 and this was 40 years ago) I disassembled an old typewriter, and welded it back together in some sort of "modern art" type of way. There were a lot of small parts and such in that. More often that not, when I am looking over someones shoulder to help them out, they are not using the right shade of filter or none at all, you NEED to see the melting process, not just the end result.Last edited by tessdad; 03-14-2006 at 06:16 AM.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:for you can solder it will work better, if not then you are going to have to do it like the stone age men and forge weld it just like you are attempting.- I have kids and adults do this more often than I would like to admit- sand the outer coating off the hanger, its paint or clearcote - turn your torch heat down mount the torch in a vice so you have a stable heat source- SLOWLY heat both at the same time until they begin to change color, blue, dull yellow, dull red STOP !! -quickly place them side by side and use pliers to grip them together- practice learining the colors they go through - You'll make a blacksmith yet !!some OFW infogood luck !!Last edited by ZTFab; 12-09-2010 at 05:23 PM.
Reply:You should be able to weld them with out any filler. Seems like you have to practice.  Your tip may be too large, however.  It will be very difficult if the tip is too large.  I have fused 1/16" welding rod with proper tip.   Why are you using coat hanger?  You could use 1/8 welding rod the welding rod in place of the the coat hanger. Coat hangers are thin and I am not sure of the composition. Once you get the hang on it welding without filler will be much easier than brazing.   Are you using a neutral flame?  You will need to find a neutral flame regardless on what technique you use.
Reply:After rereading your post,  are the wires you are trying to fuse together side by side or are you trying to bring them together when after the color change.  Clamp the items together.  When the color changes to red pull the torch back slightly, anticipating melt through.  The maximum heat is at the tip of the inner cone of the flame.  Concentrate the heat equally between the items, you should see a small puddle of liquid metal-if it touch both parts, then the parts will be fused.  As you build you must be aware of parts you have already welded because you could burn them as you move the torch.  Especially if you braze  you could melt a joint, inadvertantly. Good luck, Practice
Reply:Here is another suggestion that is a bit of a cheat.  Go to a really nice mens' clothing store and pick up some the coat hangers they have for suits.  They are thicker than your average hanger from a drycleaner.  I used to have a sunday school teacher that used to swat disorderly children in the backside with one of these.  I would have sworn they were made of rebar.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Dear bridge builder,I had a similar project in my junior college welding program (a long time ago), but the task was to Braze Weld the steel (coat hanger) wires to build the bridge.  Well how the heck do you fixture these damn wires to braze them  ?  Well, I applied a little trick that I had learned from an old timer at my after school welding job, I tack welded the entire bridge structure together with TIG first, adjusting the angle and straightness of each wire along the way, then I went back and brazed each joint.  It came out straight, clean, and perfect.Here is the trick, and this can be applied to tack welding in many different applications, and is particularly good for tacking very thin pieces.  You want  to apply a very precise, focused, single pulse of current through a TIG arc to the joint.  You will have to play with the amperage setting, and if the welder has a "hot start" potentiometer you can set it as well, I can't say exactly because many machines are different, so practice on zapping pieces of wire together before trying the bridge. 1.  Set the current around 100 amps, and the hot start (if you have it) to the max.2.  Position the two pieces to be tacked, holding one firmly against the other with one hand (use gloves).3.  With the torch in the other hand, position the tip of the tungsten electrode as close as possible to the joint, about 0.020" away, pointed equally at both pieces.4.  As you hold steady in this position, close your eyes, turn your head, and quickly tap the foot pedal ON and immediately OFF.  The very short pulse of high current will create a tiny tack weld.Some welders actually have a "spot" timer, where you can set the arc on time precisely, rather than relying on your foot actuation ON-OFF.The key really is that the amperage can be very high, even 200 amps or more, if the duration of the pulse is very short, 0.01 seconds or less.  This intense pulse produces melting so quickly and forcefully, that the separate puddles of the two pieces can "wet" together and "BRIDGE" the small gap between them.Think of it this way, if you approach a very thin, fragile weld joint with a low amperage arc (or oxyacetylene flame) and try to slowly produce melting of the two pieces of metal, the melt of each piece will pull away from the joint and "ball-up" due to surface tension in the molten metal, the two melts won't touch and wet together. The ZAP of a precise, concentrated, intense, milli-second, arc is needed.This may seem like a lot of talk for a simple technique  , but I really think that this is a very valuable "trick" that will allow you to deal with many difficult welding situations. One pulse at a time.........
Reply:Or, just solder them.Don't You Just Hate Pants?
Reply:Thanks for all the replies and advice everyone!  I'm going to try the method where you connect the two members side by side and try to fuse them together.  (I don't have access to any type of welding machines but only the conventional oxy/acylene  spelling again   welder)In the project we need to use those piece of crap standard coat hangers, so buying thicker coat hangers is out of the question and we might be disqualified  The only materials allowed in this project is plaster (which we aren't going to use) and coat hangers ONLY.  That means that we can't use other metals to join the coat hangers together...hmm wonder if the teacher can tell or not? What do you guys think about this....connect the two wires side by side BUT then try to melt a separate wire and have it drip on it hoping that it will harden in between the two rods and join them together.  Is that possible?Also, will soldering with a standard soldering gun work?  I would think that it wouldn't be hot enough to melt the coat hanger wires.  Thanks everyone for helping me out!
Reply:Soldering doesn't melt the base metal, it just adds filler that bonds to them.I think your best bet is fusing them together with oxygen acetaline torch, the meathod where you squeeze with plyers.Don't You Just Hate Pants?
Reply:BeginnerIf you try to drip the metal onto the joint then you will get a cold weld.  A cold weld will fail.  I assume you bridge will be tested for strength.  I do believe a large soldering gun would work.  Be sure to clean the metal by sanding.  You must get the hanger (joint) hot enough to melt the solder.    Clamping with pliers (vice grip style) might help reduce burn through since you can concentrate some heat on the pliers.  Keep trying the Oxy-acetylene method  once you get the hang of it, then it won't be difficult.  Play the torch back and forth.  Anticipate when it will burn through and remove the heat away from the joint.  Hopefully you are wearing goggles (shade 5) because you can look at the flame and judge by color change when burn through will occur.Last edited by tapwelder; 03-14-2006 at 06:59 PM.
Reply:1st are you useing any flux? no flux is going to make for a very un sure joint and a high failer rate.to make it a bit easier I think I would try for a mechanical joint reinforced with a weld.... twisting together the 2 wires to be joined and fuseing the end of the twists. MPHeat it and Beat it!!!http:www.Fallinghammerproductions.com
Reply:You know, this idea of welding a couple pieces of coat hanger together kept going around in my head and I thought, let's try that - as a challenge.  It's a challenge because all I have a 117 volt AC variable amperage stick welder, a carbon arc brazing fixture and I also have a wire feed (flux core) welder.Flux-Core-Wire Feed:A coat hanger has a triangular shape.  First, I thoroughly cleaned the base wire of the coat hanger with sand paper to get rid of surface enamel and rust.   I cut the coat hanger in the middle of the base wire.  I filed both cut ends to cone-shaped points.  I then mounted the two pieces in separate fixtures so that the wires were touching point-to-point in their original configuration.  I turned the welder wire feed speed down to practically zero - aimed the flux-cored wire at the junction of the cones and gave a short squeeze on the trigger.  I continued this process - brief bursts around the joint.  What I ended up with was not pretty - a big lumpy set of globs around the joint... but it worked.Twin-Carbon-Arc Brazing:You can see my special torch on the Forum-Lincoln, Thread-Carbon Arc Torch, Posting-#18)I cut apart the fused coat hanger again, on either side of my lumpy weld ball.  I sandpapered each of the cut wires.  I filed each end wire end flat - not cone shaped.  I then mounted the two pieces of coat-hanger wire in separate fixtures so that wires were touching - flat face to flat face in their original configuration.  I used my twin carbon arc torch (60 amps) to heat the joint area and then applied flux-coated-brazing rod. What I ended up with was a smooth deposition of brass coating around and through the joint.  After cooling, I filed off the excess brass around the joint and sandpapered the joint down to almost original coat-hanger wire dimension.Winner! The brazed joint was faster and easier to make and, in the end - better looking.Fun!Rick V
Reply:I'd think that something like a 0000 O/A tip and some .025 or .030 ER70s-6 with a little flux would do it. If I ever decide to buil a coat hanger bridge-------------I'll give it a try.
Reply:OK, as a hobbiest hack I had to go try this.  I think the trick is to use copper bars as a heatsink to pull heat away. The following pictures was my first (and only)a try at doing this. You see everything I tried. It was very easy actually and I probably have only gas welded about 3' of any kind of material in my life. I happen to have a henrob torch but I think any torch will work as long as the tip is small enough. I used a henrob 0 (zero) tip for 1/16 (and under) metal thickness.I clamped the coat hangers pieces to the 1/4"x1-1/4" copper bar heat sink with  cheap 99 cent spring clamps that I pulled the rubber tips off of.I used coat hanger wire for filler. Basically positioned it above each joint (probably even touching it) and dabbed at it just like doing tig welding.I cleaned the coat hanger with sandpaper (because that is what was laying around) and made it bright and shiny.1st picture is front side2nd picture is of front side up close3rd picture is of the whole messI'll put a 4th picture in the next post of the backside. Attached ImagesHobbiest hack
Reply:Here is a picture of the backside. The heat sinks got hot enough that you couldn't hold them with your bare hand. I also noticed that if the wires were not touching each other and you got carried away taht the rods did in fact pull away from each other. All I did was add a dab of filler and it filled it in nicely. The finished piece actually does seem very strong.How big is this bridge going to be? Are they going to give it a load test and see whose is strongest? Attached ImagesLast edited by DaveD; 03-29-2006 at 04:04 PM.Hobbiest hack
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VYou know, this idea of welding a couple pieces of coat hanger together kept going around in my head and I thought, let's try that - as a challenge.  It's a challenge because all I have a 117 volt AC variable amperage stick welder, a carbon arc brazing fixture and I also have a wire feed (flux core) welder.Flux-Core-Wire Feed:A coat hanger has a triangular shape.  First, I thoroughly cleaned the base wire of the coat hanger with sand paper to get rid of surface enamel and rust.   I cut the coat hanger in the middle of the base wire.  I filed both cut ends to cone-shaped points.  I then mounted the two pieces in separate fixtures so that the wires were touching point-to-point in their original configuration.  I turned the welder wire feed speed down to practically zero - aimed the flux-cored wire at the junction of the cones and gave a short squeeze on the trigger.  I continued this process - brief bursts around the joint.  What I ended up with was not pretty - a big lumpy set of globs around the joint... but it worked.Twin-Carbon-Arc Brazing:You can see my special torch on the Forum-Lincoln, Thread-Carbon Arc Torch, Posting-#18)I cut apart the fused coat hanger again, on either side of my lumpy weld ball.  I sandpapered each of the cut wires.  I filed each end wire end flat - not cone shaped.  I then mounted the two pieces of coat-hanger wire in separate fixtures so that wires were touching - flat face to flat face in their original configuration.  I used my twin carbon arc torch (60 amps) to heat the joint area and then applied flux-coated-brazing rod. What I ended up with was a smooth deposition of brass coating around and through the joint.  After cooling, I filed off the excess brass around the joint and sandpapered the joint down to almost original coat-hanger wire dimension.Winner! The brazed joint was faster and easier to make and, in the end - better looking.Fun!Rick V
Reply:Use a small tip, 00,000,0000 with oxy-acetylene. Since you haven't done this before the 0000 would probably be best. You do not need flux with oxy-acetylene as the neutral flame consumes all the oxygen around the weld. Practice some of the welds before you actually construct the project.
Reply:we used that crap wire for emergency filler many times. its probably low grade iron wire and its very  sensitive to being overheated. our trick was to heat both pieces to a certain redness and then concentrate the heat on one piece for a very short time. it will quickly liquefy that piece and fuse it to the other one, but its a trick to get the timing just right. by the time you see it shimmer its almost too late, it will overheat almost as fast as you can move the torch away.  use small tip. work on a graphite plate if you can b ut heat control is very critical so dont heat the plate-its your heatsink. use a backup colder piece of wire and let both pieces stick to it if you have to, then cut or break it off and fuse it to them with a brief heating to let it run and fuse. using the thinnest wires you can find to almost solder to the beigger ones by controlling the heat onto the small one and letting it liquefy onto the hot others -it will fuse to them without actually meting all the way thru them. mig is too easy on this unless you have never mig-welded at all, its not the nicest place to learn it. spotting large tacks onto these should be fairly easy. set the machine heat low to midrange and clean the paint off the wires, hold them parallel together, and use 3/4 to 1.5 second burns ( thats about bzzzzt length) directed at the joint so the heat is sunk quickly. should be just enough to heat them up but not blow them away.Last edited by lucywalker; 01-07-2008 at 06:10 PM.