Dangerous to TIG weld while carrying a holstered firearm?

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I know. Sounds stupid but thought I'd pose the question anyway.I have a ThermalArc TIG welder and have recently been "carrying" around my house.I remember reading that TIG welding should not be done near open containers of flammable liquid or gases because the frequency generated by the machine can cause these liquids to combust. I'm curious whether ammunition is in any sort of similar risk...having combustable gunpowder and explosive primers in them.Again...I know it's a stupid question.Does anyone else carry while welding?
Reply:Unless you are exposing your amunition to high heat there shouldn't be a problem.  The gunpowder is encased in a full metal shell.  I doubt a spark will find it's way into there.  As for the primer I don't think a spark could set one off.  I'm pretty sure that they are pressure sensitive rather than heat sensitive.  Then again, you only have to be wrong once.
Reply:High Frequancy waves travel but idk if it would set off ammo. But why take the risk. --Gol'
Reply:If you have to carry around the house it may be time to move.
Reply:I have no guns..I don't like guns.. but I do know this..A bullett has to be struck on the end to go off or tossed in a fire..Yes acetone can ignite with hi freq while on the bench at the same time..But getting gunpowder to go off with hi freq?Highly doubtful..Send this question to "Mythbusters"...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I like that proposition Zap, I personally don't see any issues, but why take the risk?
Reply:Originally Posted by 65535I like that proposition Zap, I personally don't see any issues, but why take the risk?
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys.I wasn't considering sparks or heat necessarily. Simply frequency setting it off.Maybe mythbusters is a good option I don't live in a bad area by any means. I think I live in one of the safest towns in my state. However, several incidents that have happened to family, friends and myself recently have opened my eyes to just how easy it is to invade a home. It isn't that I feel unsafe at home. I feel safer knowing I have some sort of means of protection. That is a different discussion.
Reply:Primer compounds are slightly more complex than the traditional primers of the past, however you can darn sure bet they are triple tested against all other means of discharge other than their intended means. Fire? Sure, by the time your body gets to the temp to cause a primer to explode you won't be in a position to give a crap. Spark? Not the kind that you'll live through anyway. Don't worry about it. Carry away, for whatever reason you choose. It is still a choice.
Reply:I have had a concealed carry permit and have had a personal defense firearm an my person for the last 20+ years and have welded countless miles of GTAW beads during that time, not one unintentional discharge, touch wood.And a well armed society is a polite society. I started when working a pipeline gig as an welding inspector in Compton Ca. White men didn't travel Compton with out. Jimmy
Reply:I'm not an expert on this subject, but like Zap, I'm not big on firearms in the workplace.Aside from the need(or percieved need) to be armed... To me, the issue is safety. I wouldn't carry a gun while working, for the same reason I don't wear rings, or any other jewelry. Not to mention, I don't wear a watch, have long hair or loose fitting &/or tattered clothes. By admission, I'm not much of a welder.  I do way more machining than welding.  As a machinist, one of the first things drilled into your head by the "old guys" is "Safety 1st"... Then worry about how to go about making the part, or what time it is.  I would hope the same is true about welding training.Don't get me wrong. I still enjoy killin' tin cans. Just not while i'm working.The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:I have a ThermalArc TIG welder and have recently been "carrying" around my house.
Reply:I carry my .45 except for when I'm in bed and have never had any problem. After all, if you're gonna carry, you might as well make a big hole! RF/EMI won't affect the round in any way, though. I'd be more worried about older pacemakers or other life-critical equipment that isn't shielded well. I don't live in a bad area, but when I'm at the shop until 3AM in the industrial area, you can be sure that the county coroner will work to do if anyone comes through the door at night with bad intentions. (I'm sure we'll get a great Billy Mac ARC story on this one)
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyPrimer compounds are slightly more complex than the traditional primers of the past, however you can darn sure bet they are triple tested against all other means of discharge other than their intended means. Fire? Sure, by the time your body gets to the temp to cause a primer to explode you won't be in a position to give a crap. Spark? Not the kind that you'll live through anyway. Don't worry about it. Carry away, for whatever reason you choose. It is still a choice.
Reply:The only health hazard is that any conductive metal in the welding area will re radiate high frequency radiation back onto your person. If you were welding at a metal work bench and the gun touched the metal work bench and was next to your skin or your skin was sweaty it could kill you. Otherwise YOU would be a better ground and TIG is positive ground.That is why there is a law against two TIG welders working at the same workbench.I can think of one actual example to justify having a gun. True story.A friend of mine was preparing his new shop and getting ready to move in.I came to visit and was very nervous because it was located in one of the most violent neighborhoods in the industrial area. I told him it was a bad area and he said it was no big deal. While i was standing there i looked down and saw a couple bullets laying on the wood floor. Not shell casings,bullets.I picked them up and said I guess whoever was in here last night was in a hurry to leave?A few months later he had tools stolen from his truck while it was locked inside of a chain link fence area outside the shop.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-03-2008 at 01:24 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomThat is why there is a law against two TIG welders working at the same workbench.
Reply:Unlike Zap, I have guns, like guns, enjoy working on guns, and have the odd occassion to carry one....But they are a pain in the hip, when you gotta move around with one.  Why make yourself any more uncomfortable while you are welding than you have to?  A cap, a helmet (probably with safety glasses on under it), a respirator, sleeves, boots, gloves is more than enough.  Put the shootin' iron somewhere safe but accessible and weld away.  If the environment is that dangerous, get someone in the area to ride "shotgun", so they can focus on the threat, and you can weld.  Good luck,cricman
Reply:Remember- there are only two things better than guns....BIGGER guns and MORE guns.
Reply:it was said earlier that hf can set off acetone   i was never aware of this?!!?? does it have to be in contact with the grounded work surface? or is it just have to be in the immediate area? ive killed many electronic devices with hf(none of my own of couse ) but never imagined it could ignite acetone without a spark, does it just excite the molecules or something?this scared me
Reply:Originally Posted by worldsgreatestwelderThe Curious George in me thinks this statement is false. I have on many (read thousands of hours) brother-in-lawed parts or pipe both of us using GTAW. I have always grounded to the part not the table, thus eliminating those pesky arc marks that us welding inspectors dislike so.JimmyBTW .45acp Springfield XD Tactical first 13 out the pipe in the black at 25' vary nice pistol.and remember Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my handgun.
Reply:About two welders at one table being illegal....I am having a Cal-OSHA rep look this up in section 8 of the welding state code.I will report back to this forum.But i was just thinking that besides the grounding electrical issues, there is the issue that it is illegal to strike an arc within 50 feet of another person. If there is no protective visual screen and if two welders at the same table welding small parts, how would you be ready when the other welder strikes the arc?Even if there is a screen running down the middle of the table it would seem that thousands of arc flashes over a years time could really affect your eyes or other body parts.
Reply:Some where I heard about a guy with machine gun ammo close by while welding.  Blew away the whole left side of his body.  But now he's all right.
Reply:Originally Posted by noobiexit was said earlier that hf can set off acetone   i was never aware of this?!!?? does it have to be in contact with the grounded work surface? or is it just have to be in the immediate area? ive killed many electronic devices with hf(none of my own of couse ) but never imagined it could ignite acetone without a spark, does it just excite the molecules or something?this scared me
Reply:Originally Posted by riley mcmillanSome where I heard about a guy with machine gun ammo close by while welding.  Blew away the whole left side of his body.  But now he's all right.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAcetone left on the bench can "go off" by itself..The Hi Freq. will make it combust..How? I have no idea but this will happen..You will not see the flames untill something else catches fire and by then it's too late..I have never done it but have seen it happen before where I used to work..I pour some in a coffee can and use it out of there..Put the lid back on and put it away...Never use it from the orig container..(Keeps the contamination down from oiley rag backsplash..)...zap!Originally Posted by Donald BranscomAbout two welders at one table being illegal....I am having a Cal-OSHA rep look this up in section 8 of the welding state code.I will report back to this forum.But i was just thinking that besides the grounding electrical issues, there is the issue that it is illegal to strike an arc within 50 feet of another person. If there is no protective visual screen and if two welders at the same table welding small parts, how would you be ready when the other welder strikes the arc?Even if there is a screen running down the middle of the table it would seem that thousands of arc flashes over a years time could really affect your eyes or other body parts.
Reply:200 feet??? That is asinine. What if the building is 40x60? From everything I ever hear of the PRK, I am glad I am nowhere near there.
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52200 feet??? That is asinine. What if the building is 40x60? From everything I ever hear of the PRK, I am glad I am nowhere near there.
Reply:Unless you are planing on using the firearm as a conductor I would not worry about it for welding.  But...Electricity CAN set off PRIMERS, The FX guys I worked with used CCI primers for some shows and electrically set them off by shunting them in a 24v system.  I would thus think that the HF could set off a primer, but its unlikely to even get to your ammo due to skin effect, unless you a have Glock or other full composite frame gun.  Even then I think it would be hard to have a problem welding...But I think some tests are in order!  I will go zap some rounds with only primers in them... (I love blowing things up!) Stay tuned...Me!
Reply:Results:HF has no effect... ANY current at any location on the case = BOOM (instant)Tests; EMPTY .223 case primed with pistol primers.  Bottom line if the case becomes part of the circuit it will go off.PS.I will continue to carry my 357MAG stub S&W...Me!
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomLets say you do have a 40x60 shop. You could have a locker outdoors on the outside of the building and you would be in compliance, because it is outside.But the actual distance to go outside to the locker and get the stuff may only be 20 feet or 30 feet.The problem is when the flamable liquid is in the shop 30 feet away. Unsafe.So why not just put the locker outdoors. It is not unreasonable.My local fire inspector let me keep my flamables inside because i was worried about vandalism, and so i had a metal locker on the opposite end of my shop in a seperate room. Very convenient. The fire inspectors in my town were very easy to get along with.There is usually always some way to work it out.
Reply:Calafornia,  lifes cereal bowl, what ain't fruits and flakes, is nuts   been there, done thatthe gorilla that made it hold Ranger 8  15 yrs old SP150 mig 25 yrs old several Victor sets Snap On 130 mig  25 yrs old Lincoln 225 buzz box SA200  F163  78 mdl they all work just added a Idealarc 250/250
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!Results:HF has no effect... ANY current at any location on the case = BOOM (instant)Tests; EMPTY .223 case primed with pistol primers.  Bottom line if the case becomes part of the circuit it will go off.PS.I will continue to carry my 357MAG stub S&W...
Reply:Acetone or any flammable gas or liquid in the presence of HF can ignite if the conditions are right. If for example, your HF-welded work is on contact with some other metallic item, the HF can cause a slight arc-over to that item. You can also get HF arc-over from your table to something else. Certain high frequencies travel on the surface and can do bizarre things that don't follow normal rules of electricity. Usually, the arc on your torch is close enough though. If you have to worry about something flammable igniting, you should realize that you have a flammable liquid nearby since after all, you're welding and not trying to make the Darwin award pages!
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblown... high frequencies travel on the surface and can do bizarre things that don't follow normal rules of electricity......after all, you're welding and not trying to make the Darwin award pages!
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomThe only health hazard is that any conductive metal in the welding area will re radiate high frequency radiation back onto your person. If you were welding at a metal work bench and the gun touched the metal work bench and was next to your skin or your skin was sweaty it could kill you. Otherwise YOU would be a better ground and TIG is positive ground.That is why there is a law against two TIG welders working at the same workbench.I can think of one actual example to justify having a gun. True story.A friend of mine was preparing his new shop and getting ready to move in.I came to visit and was very nervous because it was located in one of the most violent neighborhoods in the industrial area. I told him it was a bad area and he said it was no big deal. While i was standing there i looked down and saw a couple bullets laying on the wood floor. Not shell casings,bullets.I picked them up and said I guess whoever was in here last night was in a hurry to leave?A few months later he had tools stolen from his truck while it was locked inside of a chain link fence area outside the shop.
Reply:I am trying to visualize the pizza delivery man startling the welder inside the garage and being acosted by the welder with his helmet on, a 45 in one hand and a TIG gun in the other screaming "put that down or I'll shoot-where the H** are you!"
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomAbout two welders at one table being illegal....I am having a Cal-OSHA rep look this up in section 8 of the welding state code.I will report back to this forum.But i was just thinking that besides the grounding electrical issues, there is the issue that it is illegal to strike an arc within 50 feet of another person. If there is no protective visual screen and if two welders at the same table welding small parts, how would you be ready when the other welder strikes the arc?Even if there is a screen running down the middle of the table it would seem that thousands of arc flashes over a years time could really affect your eyes or other body parts.
Reply:Originally Posted by cricmanUnlike Zap, I have guns, like guns, enjoy working on guns, and have the odd occassion to carry one....But they are a pain in the hip, when you gotta move around with one.  Why make yourself any more uncomfortable while you are welding than you have to?  A cap, a helmet (probably with safety glasses on under it), a respirator, sleeves, boots, gloves is more than enough.  Put the shootin' iron somewhere safe but accessible and weld away.  If the environment is that dangerous, get someone in the area to ride "shotgun", so they can focus on the threat, and you can weld.  Good luck,cricman
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyWhat the heck are ya doin, hookin right straight to the welder leads?  Now you've made a typical blasting cap. We're talking about welding with a firearm on your hip not welding on the firearm itself.
Reply:I knew the guy who considered a small revolver as nothing more than another handy shop tool, with many varied uses. He miscalculated and shot a hole through a radio once!!
Reply:Originally Posted by worldsgreatestwelderCAL-OSHA and OSHA two disgusting parts of the heavy handed liberal left government. Neither having anything to do with reality, just a bunch of yahoos telling others how not to get hurt but never having done anything but sit on their *** and whine about paper cuts.Now pull up your skirt and weld.Jimmy
Reply:One way to test if gun powder will react to high frequencies would be to place a bit of gun powder in a container that will allow the frequencies to penetrate and see if it burns up.  NOW on the subject of carrying guns... I dont carry a gun my self but 2 out of 3 of my grandfathers carried guns their entire life and my dad still carries his 357, as well as he has one in his drivers side door of his truck, and a 9mm in his skidder, and a 9 on his firewood processor.  Guns are not only for self defense against humans but against animals as well.  Guns are only dangerous to a person who does not know how to handle a gun. this does nto mean everyone should carry them but I do think everyone should be educated on them.  As they can be used as a tool to defend terrorism and invasion upon personal property.