Local shop makes big claim?!?!

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A local "Race Fabrication" shop is claiming he can make an ultralight exhaust out of aluminum tubing welded to 308 stainless flanges.  That idea sounds just about ridiculous to me, and of course none of his work is available to be seen.The reason I ask is, I have been doing all the stainless exhaust on a few cars and they are giving me a hard time about why I didnt do for them what he claims he can... mind you for a single exhaust on a turbo honda is going to be 1000+ freakin dollars in AL from him (all "custom" built) and the stuff we built on the last car was 400-ish dollars...  Even if it means they take their work to him, I want some factual evidence it can be done before any friend of mine drops a thousand bucks on the counter!  I personally suspect hes just smearing AL around until the pipe sticks there...  I am skeptical of anyone who makes big boastful welding claims and won't show anyone his work???Thanks guys!
Reply:Bullcrap!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:if it can't be done and we all know it can't why say it's being done???
Reply:It can be done. Friction welding, which I believe is big $. However, a 3rd transition material must be used during the process. So, I doubt he's doing that. Also, is he welding...does he specifically state "welding"? It's also possible to braze or adhesive bond them together.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Well, I was 99% sure it couldn't be done, but wanted to check with those who are more knowledgable than myself.  He claims he TIG's the 308 stainless flanges to aluminum exhaust tubing!?!?!So, before I got overzealous and told him he was full of bull, I wanted to cover that other 1% so i dont have to stick my foot in my mouth...He has since claimed he knows what special filler rod must be used, and has posted a picture that sure looks like aluminized steel exhaust tubing
Reply:Originally Posted by FordBuilderFLWell, I was 99% sure it couldn't be done, but wanted to check with those who are more knowledgable than myself.  He claims he TIG's the 308 stainless flanges to aluminum exhaust tubing!?!?!So, before I got overzealous and told him he was full of bull, I wanted to cover that other 1% so i dont have to stick my foot in my mouth...He has since claimed he knows what special filler rod must be used, and has posted a picture that sure looks like aluminized steel exhaust tubing
Reply:Whenever I get lost and need some more technical info, I come to the forum and ask... I have never been let down!So the final result is, nobody is going there for their mysterious ultralight aluminum tig'ed exhaust to be done, simple as that
Reply:Originally Posted by FusionKingThat should be no problem whatsoever Just no real gain the way I see it. muffler shops have been using aluminized steel exhaust tubing for many years and oems did also. Just a way to fight corrosion. I had a muffler shop in the late eighties and you would cut off old pipes and when the steel was all rusted away on the inside the aluminum outer shell was still fine and it was light as a feather. I always kept them for patterns. You just burn thru the coating and weld the steel together.I do not think it would be anything to brag about tho as all stainless would be much better and aluminized steel is not any lighter either ...just cheaper than stainless. I'm sure 309L would work fine for that. Some people learn a technical fact or 2 and then just play on that.
Reply:He claims he can TIG aluminum to stainless
Reply:I've seen mild steel welded to aluminum.  I wouldn't say it was common practice, but it was practice to weld steel fittings into aluminum fuel tanks for airplanes at some point in the past.
Reply:It's probably just aluminuzed mild steel piping and he's none the wiser. There are many fish in the sea...wandering aimlessly. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:exactlyMiller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:I know alot of turbo honda guysare using aluminum exhast, but im not sure what they do about the flanges?  Apparently they just use v bandshttp://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1893081http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1816011Last edited by WANNAWELD; 10-09-2007 at 11:51 AM.
Reply:TIGing AL to SST or any ferrous metal is a no go as far as I know.I have joined 16 - 20 gage AL 6061 to Galvanized steel and 1018 Steel with a process called CSC(Controlled Short Circuit), similar to CMT, using AL 5554 filler wire.  Asthetics are good and we are working on destructive testing atm.  I had ABSOLUTELY ZERO (none, zip, nada) luck with AL to SST.  There's quite a race out there to join AL and CS, and in general what has been accomplished is better suited for laboratories than job shops.I work on an automated machine and would never be able to accomplish any of this by hand.Last edited by Chris welds; 10-09-2007 at 04:41 PM.
Reply:Can aluminum take exhaust heat?Water cooled aluminum in boat exhausts, goes into melt-down fast, without water.
Reply:Originally Posted by WANNAWELDI know alot of turbo honda guysare using aluminum exhast, but im not sure what they do about the flanges?  Apparently they just use v bandshttp://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1893081http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1816011
Reply:Are they putting huge diesels in those cars or what? That's just plain goofy  Just throw a dump pipe off the turbo and be done with it - kids Fire!, Fire! Oh wait, that's my torch...Lincoln PT-225 TIGLincoln 175 MIG
Reply:This is typical in the rice-burner world. These clowns in "tuner shops" have never even degreed a cam nor have they assembled an engine, yet they make large claims all day long based only on what they've read on the Internet or Smalldick Ricetuner Magazine. After all, if it's on the Internet, it MUST be true! These are the same guys that sit around claiming their cars make 600HP with a 1.6L engine, but run 14's in the 1/4 mile. You know, the guys that run their mouths on American cars like the SVT Cobras that do mid 12's from the showroom, but never had a car from Japan do anything near that. Then you hear "oh yeah! Well so-and-so has a Evo that goes 11's!" Yeah...and he has $8000 in the engine. Put $8000 into that Cobra and you be doing low 10's through the cats and on the OEM tires.Oh yeah....these are the guys that can weld SS to Aluminum. I know they can. I saw it on the Internet!
Reply:on a small car like a honda, is the weight savings really that great going from ss to alum?  Is the flanges still have to be SS...It would seem to me you could lose more weight from the car in weight watchers.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:That's another one that cracks me up. These guys drive around with no carpet, rear seat, passenger seat, interior panels, HVAC system, spare tire and call it a "street car." And they still can't weld aluminum to SS! In fact, many of these wannabe performance shops have a diffucult time welding steel to steel from what I've seen in this area.For the last question: No. The weight savings isn't worth it. Build the system from steel or SS and be done with it. It's carrying 1600 degree exhaust gas- not compressed air from thier (too large and overpriced) Spearco intercooler. Why would they want to use aluminum on something this hot? I can glow my turbine housing and its down pipe a nice deep orange color on a 28 PSI boost pull (yes...28PSI). The extra $3900 that they spent on a much too large turbo, noisy bypass valve and wastegate could have been spent more wisely on something that would actually produce TORQUE and move the car instead of jerking off to the 10# they'd save in exhaust weight that ain't gonna help 'em. And they still got their *** handed to them by a stock C5 Vette or some yuppie in a Cayanne Turbo. I have a 3" steel exhaust and have no problems with a new Z06 Vette. http://www.85shelby.homestead.com/index~ns4.html
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownThis is typical in the rice-burner world. These clowns in "tuner shops" have never even degreed a cam nor have they assembled an engine, yet they make large claims all day long based only on what they've read on the Internet or Smalldick Ricetuner Magazine. After all, if it's on the Internet, it MUST be true! These are the same guys that sit around claiming their cars make 600HP with a 1.6L engine, but run 14's in the 1/4 mile. You know, the guys that run their mouths on American cars like the SVT Cobras that do mid 12's from the showroom, but never had a car from Japan do anything near that. Then you hear "oh yeah! Well so-and-so has a Evo that goes 11's!" Yeah...and he has $8000 in the engine. Put $8000 into that Cobra and you be doing low 10's through the cats and on the OEM tires.Oh yeah....these are the guys that can weld SS to Aluminum. I know they can. I saw it on the Internet!
Reply:Look into magnetic pulse welding guys it's very good at welding dissimiliar materials. Dana uses it to weld their aluminum drive shafts to steel.
Reply:well im not 100% positive either, but i know that or have heard i should say that if you use helium as the inert gas and DC +/- (i forgot) you can fuse more or less weld aluminum to carbon steel.  a co-workers dad used to own an aerospace shop and claimsthat he discovered the technologie.  but dont jump all over my case if im wrong.just my 2 cents.6G zirconium 702 GTAW 2" xxheavy6G P.E.D. carbon steel GTAW 2" xxheavy3G titanium Gr. 2 - Gr. 7 GTAW up to 3/4" 3G 316L stainless GTAW up to 1" 3G carbon steel GTAW up to 1" 3G Hastalloy GTAW up to 3/4"1G tantalum GTAW up to .060"
Reply:i was working on a peterbilt one time and welded some brackets for a pipeline to a cross member (fuel oil truck) turns out the cross member was aluminum. i just knocked the paint off with a sanding disk and welded it. it held but a few licks with a hammer and it came apart. i now always check it with a magnet or something that should scratch alumComplete Fabrication Shop specializing in pipe fabrication. Also offering heavy steel fabrication and sheet metal work.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneIt can be done. Friction welding, which I believe is big $. However, a 3rd transition material must be used during the process. So, I doubt he's doing that. Also, is he welding...does he specifically state "welding"? It's also possible to braze or adhesive bond them together.Explosive welding is used to fuse dissimilar metals - I don't think that method would be possible for an exhaust.  Unless you have some flanges explosive bonded and then weld your exhaust to those.http://www.highenergymetals.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by infroif it can't be done and we all know it can't why say it's being done???
Reply:Explosive welding?Wellhell, I have been doing this for years and didn't even know it. Its called a ramset gun and it fires a nail into steel or other metal. Not really welding at all as the molecules are not bonded, just kind of wedged together.edit..No offence intended TSORSA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T  D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1  RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:And besides that, how could you make an exhaust system that is subject to temps in excess of the materials melting point? It would just fall off on the road in a glob.SA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T  D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1  RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:Originally Posted by welder155well im not 100% positive either, but i know that or have heard i should say that if you use helium as the inert gas and DC +/- (i forgot) you can fuse more or less weld aluminum to carbon steel.  a co-workers dad used to own an aerospace shop and claimsthat he discovered the technologie.  but dont jump all over my case if im wrong.just my 2 cents.
Reply:Originally Posted by mooseyeExplosive welding?Wellhell, I have been doing this for years and didn't even know it. Its called a ramset gun and it fires a nail into steel or other metal. Not really welding at all as the molecules are not bonded, just kind of wedged together.edit..No offence intended TSOR
Reply:the guy is so full of ****... you CAN'T weld aluminum to Stainless.... is this guy some kind of whakjob???? what a loser....
Reply:Well, I don't know what he is personally... But his shop is almost out of business now.I havent taken on repairing any of his projects due to the extreme disaster most of them seem to be...  Not that I cannot redo them, the car owners dont wanna pay me to. oh well, back to trailer repairs and modifications haha
Reply:Originally Posted by FordBuilderFLWell, I don't know what he is personally... But his shop is almost out of business now.I havent taken on repairing any of his projects due to the extreme disaster most of them seem to be...  Not that I cannot redo them, the car owners dont wanna pay me to. oh well, back to trailer repairs and modifications haha
Reply:Originally Posted by z0diacHmm... I'd love to see a video of it.The two metals have 2 separate melting points, and 2 different densities.  One is always going to rise to the outside of the weld upon solidifying.  But far be it from me to say -anything- is impossible.  I'd just love to see it.
Reply:I would say buy it get it tested by a certified welder then take his him to court and sue him for false advertising and own his shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneSearch friction welding on any video site.
Reply:Maybe the idiot at the shop doesn't know the difference in aluminum and aluminized.