Lincoln 180T puzzling questions

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I have a lincoln 180t that states it will run .025 to .035 mig wire. I was told that running the .035 wire, the wire would run through the cable better with less "kinking". I bought a roll of .035 mig wire, installed it and started running it through the cable/gun assembly. When the wire reached the curve in the gun it binded up. I fed the wire through the gun assembly manually. The gun has so much curve the drive roll will not push it through. After a few days, I tried the .030 wire, same problem so I switched back to the .025. I figured it might be a kink or something in the cable so I ordered a new gun. The new cable/gun assembly came in Friday and I installed it today..same problem. Anything bigger than .025 binds in the curve of the gun. The manual states that it will run this wire...anyone have any solutions or tips?Next, the welder welds fine when no higher than c range. But when you turn it up all the way I'm getting a flame like arc with no sizzle but more of a blowing sound (deeper than the shielding gas sound). I thought I was having problems with the regulator but I replaced it a still having the problem. I'm getting 220V at the outlet. Lincoln will not offer me any advice other than take it to a service center that is about 100 miles away.I would appreciate any help anyone can give me..
Reply:What gas are you using?The arc symptoms you're describing can be from not enough wire feeding into the weld.  If not enough wire is feeding into the weld, too long an arc length results and the wire wants to burn back into the tip.  The last arc you see looks like flame with no sizzle.The binding in the gun I was going to say maybe the gun liner is worn out, or maybe there is not enough tension on the drive rolls in the feeder.   Also, check how your liner ends and goes into the diffuser at the end of the torch (diffuser is the brass thing the nozzle screws onto and the tip screws into.  Sometimes a coil steel liner will have a sharp edge at the end that makes it hard for the wire to pass through.   You can clip off the sharp edge with a wire cutter or file it down with a rat tail file.   Also look at how the liner and the diffuser line up together.  Is the passage clear for the wire to get through?One more thing, are you using the right size drive rolls for the wire size?  They should be marked as to what wire dia they are made to feed.  Bigger the wire, bigger the groove in the drive roll needs to be.   Running a small wire in a big groove means the rolls may be slipping on the wire instead of grabbing it and pushing it down the torch.You should be able to run any steel wire size, within the design range of the torch, without the wire kinking inside.   Now aluminum is another story altogether....MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:First about the feeder, are your drive rollers sized correctly for sure? They are marked on the rollers somewhere with the correct size wire to be used.  Pictures could help a lot here.  •.025-.030 and .035 smooth drive rolls•.030-.045 knurled drive roll•.025-.035 and .045 wire guidesCurve in the gun? As you feed a new roll, are you removing the contact tip or do you already have wire all the way through the gun?Now the weld arc, ..............Rated CV Output..............Amps/Volts/Duty Cycle..............130/20/30%...I kept wondering what exactly you are describing, maybe a bit more info would help. How many range taps are there? A, B, C, ...??City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Most Mig guns have a way to exchange the liner, feed rolls, tip, inlet, head liner and outled guides.  If you bought this from a dealer, I would carry it back and have them exchange the parts.   JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:Ok, I'll try to get pics tomorrow but I can give everyone the following information:I'm using the 75/25 gas mix. The gun/cable is brand new and the old one is only 6 months old with less than 6 hours of welding time. I have the correct drive roll installed. Smooth drive rolls .025 for the .025, .035 for the .035 wire. The package that came with the welder is, 1- smooth .025 drive roller, 1- smooth .035 drive roller and 1- .035/.045 knurled. I have adjust the drive tension and butterflynut on the roll itself. I can feel the wire as it runs through the cable and when it reaches the curve in the neck of the gun (before it reaches the diffuser with tip removed) the wire stops. According to the manual, the welder can run .035 wire without any modifications except changing the tip. But the wire does give some indication that it is hitting/rubbing somewhere.. for example before I can get pics, this is how the wire looks when it comes out of the gun with tip removed._________0___________0__________0____________0____  ________0____ etc....the 0 indicates a scratch about 1/8" long on the wire and each scratch is equally spaced about 4". My brain is fried!! Also, how much force should the drive roll have? my drive roller will bind and stop with minimal pressure. When running the .025 wire the tension nut is about even with the threaded stem. Anything greater wil stop the roller and I can stop the drive roller easily with my fingers..??????
Reply:OK, does the wire come off the top of the roll or the bottom? It should come off the spool and run straight into the feeder without binding. You would know if it were wrong.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I have that same machine and im running .035 thru with no problems.            3 more things you may want to check 1: make sure the end of the wire is sooth before you feed it thru the gun.   2: make sure the gun cable is all the way in the wire drive assembly, if it does'nt snap in all the way it leaves gap that will cause problemswith the wire feeding thru, you should be able to see the metal end of the gun cable butt up to the metal peice in the wire drive assembly. 2. make sure you dont have too much tension on the wire roll, i have about 1/16th" gap behind the wire roll and that seems to work fine on mine.If you still have a problem try to run some .035 fluxcore wire with the knulred drive roller, that may help isolate the problem to a specific area.
Reply:From everything you've said so far, I'm thinking you have some kinda misalignment where the liner goes into the gun.  Some torches use one long liner that goes from the feeder all the way to the diffuser, but other torches use a long liner that ends somewhere at the torch handle and then a shorter 'jump liner' to take the wire the rest of the way to the diffuser.  I would take the diffuser and the gooseneck off the torch and see if the liner is one piece all the way back to the feeder or not.  If it is two-piece, I bet there is some kinda obstruction where the two pieces meet since that seems to be about the area where  you've been describing the problem to be. One other thing.  What I do when I feed in a new roll of wire is, after cutting off the bent end, I zip the first few inches of the wire through my fingers, putting pressure on the side with the curve in it.  This helps to straighten out that first few inches of wire so it has a tendency to slide down the torch easier without stubbing up against the edge of a guide or any ridge that may be along it's path.  I also like to feed the wire in by hand so I can check on the condition of my torch to feel for any sticky areas that might need attention.Hope you get it worked out.  It has to be something simple and probly cheap or free to fix.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:All good suggestions here. tanglediver mentioned the way the wire feeds off the roll, my first time changing a roll of wire when starting out i put it upside down and the wire fed off the top instead of the bottom and i had feeding problems, so i went over it, turned the roll around and learned something new. if you have feeding problems its possible that was why it was welding funny by the wire not getting to the material fast enough, or you know what i mean.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I really appreciate all the help! When I come home from work I going to take all this very good advice and go take a look at it. The wire is feeding off the top of the roll. As i posted earlier, the wire runs great until it reaches the bend in the neck of the gun so I'm going to start there and work back. I will post any new info soon....
Reply:Are you using .035 contact tip for .035 wire or is the .025 tip still in place.
Reply:.o35 tip for the .035 wire.  Everytime I have tried to feed the wire through the tip has been off. It runs excellent until it reaches the curve in the gun right after the handle. I'm about to head out and look at it again..will post later
Reply:Well, I went out there and took the diffuser tip off completely, double checked my drive roller (smooth .035). Wire ran good until it hit the curve of the gun again, just like it did in the old  gun/cable assembly. I just noticed in a post earlier that I should feed it off the bottom..the manual said to make sure that the roll is feeding off the top?? I'm going to go try that and repost..thanks
Reply:Flipped the roll to feed off the bottom..theres no way the can be right it looks like this:...........           \.........()top feed looks like this: straight into the drive roll..........................                        ()As I said before it runs good until hit hits the curve in the gun right about the trigger.. I will popst pics in just a minute
Reply:Take the gooseneck off the gun and check for any obstruction.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks desertrider33 but I have already done that. I'm still thinking the curve in the gun is to much for the wire to pass through. The same problem happens at the same place on the old gun assembly as well as the new gun assembly. But it puzzles me that other owners of this machine have no trouble...I'm about ready to take it back and try another brand..Should I be able to stop the drive roller with 2 fingers and soft pressure?
Reply:I have a powermig 180c.  I think there is some sabotage going on at the company.  When I got mine a few months ago the power lug was not machined properly and would not seal or hold the hose in the machine.  The sent me a new machine and the fan began to struggle start.  I got it "repaired".  Don't mig much, but when I tried it post repair the same problem.  Is your gun under warranty.  Call lincoln.  Find a local warranty center.When you remove your diffuser, where is the liner?  It should be sticking out or visible near the threads.
Reply:How much curve does that gooseneck have?  45* is usually enough and shouldn't cause a problem.  Did you pull the liner out?  There has to be some kinda obstruction.   Can you feed the wire through by hand, or does it still stop when you try it that way.  If you can feed it through by hand but the feeder can't, then maybe the drive roll pressure is too loose.  If you get the same stopping when you feed it by hand, it has to be an obstruction somewhere.  Are you sure some part is not installed backwards in that torch?   You might just have to disassemble the whole thing and poke around untill you find something suspicious.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by biggboyWell, I went out there and took the diffuser tip off completely, double checked my drive roller (smooth .035). Wire ran good until it hit the curve of the gun again, just like it did in the old  gun/cable assembly. I just noticed in a post earlier that I should feed it off the bottom..the manual said to make sure that the roll is feeding off the top?? I'm going to go try that and repost..thanks
Reply:Hey All, I know you guys have given this one quite a beating. Maybe one more will get to the truth!   Originally Posted by biggboyShould I be able to stop the drive roller with 2 fingers and soft pressure?
Reply:To set the drive roller pressure I use a welding glove over the end of the gun tip and give it a medium squeeze around the gun neck then jog the feed if it lifts the glove it is about right if not I tighten the feed roller knob. Hope this helps I know this is not the answer to the scatch problem but the other posts are great info good luck.
Reply:I have been getting more help here than I have got from lincoln. I appreciate everything and every bit of advice and information that has been given to me...The welder will the wire by itself until it reaches the curve in the gun..After that I have to manually feed it by forcing the wire through the best I can. I can get about 8" out of the gun before it will not move anymore. I'm plan on going out tonite and and tearing apart the gun. Where are the size markings for the wire located?
Reply:Originally Posted by biggboy The welder will (feed?) the wire by itself until it reaches the curve in the gun..After that I have to manually feed it by forcing the wire through the best I can. I can get about 8" out of the gun before it will not move anymore.
Reply:Ok new updates. The liner says .035. Lincoln said my drive roll is probably loose on the shaft. I came home and made sure it was tight. I took the gun/cable assembly off the maching and feed a piece of wire through the entire cable. It ran smooth and fine until it got to the curve in the gun again. it was so tough to push it the wire itself would bend. I inspected the liner and everything looks good. As I was pushing the wire in, I could feel almost every ridge of the liner.. I never like defeat but I think I will just  swallow my pride and just kep running .025 wire..unless I get by a service center thats 100 miles away. I just want to thank everyone that has helped me. All of your advice has been great and helpful. I have bugged you all enough with my problem and I know there are more members who need help. But I do plan on staying on this fourm and learn all I can!
Reply:Originally Posted by biggboyOk new updates. The liner says .035. Lincoln said my drive roll is probably loose on the shaft. I came home and made sure it was tight. I took the gun/cable assembly off the maching and feed a piece of wire through the entire cable. It ran smooth and fine until it got to the curve in the gun again. it was so tough to push it the wire itself would bend. I inspected the liner and everything looks good. As I was pushing the wire in, I could feel almost every ridge of the liner.. I never like defeat but I think I will just  swallow my pride and just kep running .025 wire..unless I get by a service center thats 100 miles away. I just want to thank everyone that has helped me. All of your advice has been great and helpful. I have bugged you all enough with my problem and I know there are more members who need help. But I do plan on staying on this fourm and learn all I can!thanks for the info. Itried to tell them that the roller was not slipping. when i apply pressure, the roller stops and the motor is still humming..
Reply:feed the wire by hand through the gun, then when it gts stuck put the end over a paper towel and pull the wire out, check for damage to the wire, try feeding it backwards by hand and see if it gets stuck, if it gets stuck only forward and metal shavings come out when you pull the wire out, blow light air through the nozzle to force any shaving out if there are, I'm not very familiar with MIG guns, but is it possible to get into the liner in the gun to examine it? I feel like denrep got it, but it's still a problem.
Reply:I still think there has to be some kind of obstruction in that liner or maybe the liner is damaged where it goes into the curve of the gun or maybe there is a ridge the wire is catching on where the liner ends and goes into the diffuser or secondary section of liner if it's not all one piece.   If there is a problem smoothly feeding the wire through the gun by hand with the rollers disengaged, then roller pressure or roller slipping is out of the equation as the primary cause of the problem.  Problem has to be somewhere in the gun.Have you completely disassembled the gun yet??  Try feeding the wire through the liner by itself, with the liner completely out of the gun.  You can have someone hold the liner in a bent position at the end and keep feeding the wire in and out of that end area and inspect the outside of the liner for any messed up section of the coils around that area.  If you get any problem feeding wire in just the liner you've found your problem, the liner is damaged or otherwise obstructed.   If not,  keep looking.  This has to be some simple physical thing that is causing this problem.  Good luck finding it!  I think once the torch is completely disassembled the problem will reveal itself in short order, provided drive roller issues have been eliminated from the scenario.This almost sounds like there's another piece of wire stuck in the liner somewhere around that bend.Last edited by DesertRider33; 01-23-2008 at 10:20 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:just got back from my local service shop. The repairman set up the welder, got ready to weld then...bingo..The wire got stuck in the curve of the gun. I sat there and he disassmbled the entire gun cable assembly. Put it back together and still the same problem. Then he got the brand new gun, installed it and ..bingo..same problem..He said he has been repairing lincol welders for years and never seen anything like this. I had to leave my baby behind but I was told that if they could not fix the problem I would get it replaced with a brand new one. He had a new one and I watched him load it up with .035 wire and weld away. I had to make a 120 mile trip but at least my worries are gone,haha. I really do thank each one of you for your help. I'll let you know how the stroy ends!
Reply:Hmmm... now it sounds like a design flaw with that model torch, since both torches did the same thing....Yes, Please dont forget to let us know what the outcome is!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:well, i was going to buy this very welder but i may have to go blue.
Reply:.035 innershield FCAW OR solid core wire?????TRY THIS:Welder off.Insert the wire into the tube but when and before it gets to the gun REMOVE the tip and uncsrew the base of the tip & holder and once the wire comes thru THEN slide the parts of the tip OVER the wire,Somtimes the wire catches on the edge of the transistion point of tip.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-23-2008 at 09:06 PM.
Reply:I just went out to the garage and tried mine, SP 135 T about 10 years old and there is NO WAY I can stop that drive roller with my fingers.Never tried that before. If I tried any harder I thing it would pinch bad when your finger went through that little opening.
Reply:Update: Something funny was going on with my wire. Per a phone call today, they said they loaded up my welder with .035 and it did run it through, but with problems. First, he said the wire I was using was marked .035 but had a larger diameter than .035 and that he's not sure how that happened because the package states .035. Next, the drive gears are stripped out. He told me that he has had MANY of these returned for the same reason. But I was promised that when I pick it up it will be welding better than when I first used it. I still want to thank each of you for your help!
Reply:I wonder if there was some flattening of the wire due to excessive drive roller pressure.  That would change the size of the wire and create drag as Denrep suggested.
Reply:Nope. I asked that. He said they pulled off 10ft, 20ft and 30ft and wire was the same diameter..beats me..I plan on checking it for myself and see when it comes back. I will psot the diameter when I get the wire.
Reply:I've had aluminum wire with inconsistent diameter before, as well as wire with a rough surface.  Both are hard to feed through a standard size tip.  On the other side of the coin, the guys at the welding shop said they've stopped selling the 'house brand' tips for awhile because they were cheaply made in China and were not consistent in the inside diameter from one end of the tip to the other, causing alot of people some strange feeding problems.  Fortunately, I didn't get any of those tips. The heavy roller pressure deforming the wire idea does make some sense, though I've only experienced that with soft aluminum wire myself.  Anyhow, Biggboy, I'm glad you (supposedly) got the problem with the machine fixed finally!!  What a relief!  Your machine was beginning to frustrate me and I wasn't even welding with it!  LMAOMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:It came in today and WORKS WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm very happy...Thanks for all your help!
Reply:That's GREAT!!!   I'm happy this caper is conluded with a happy ending!Now go have fun with your welding! MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Hi, This post is very informative, however ther are some queries to ask about some specific topic. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Thanks,Property Directory|Wholesale Billiards|Wholesale Batteries|Something Directory