replace welded cutting edge

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Hi,I need to replace the welded cutting edge on my skid steer bucket. It look like this:http://construction.newholland.com/f...5-017-01_M.jpgThe dealer told me it is not T1 or super hardened steel, so they simply use 7018 to weld it. My first question: how do I remove the old one? Do I use O/A? It seem to be the easyest way, but I'm worried that I can also cut the bucket (wich is 1/4" max thick). Or do I use the grinder with a cutting wheel? Any other/better way?Second question: How do I know what kind of steel it is? For this case, I know from the dealer experience that I can weld it with 7018, but if I didn't had this information, is there some test I can do with the steel to know what kind it is? Or should I always use 11018 rod wich, as I read on the net, is used for T1. If I use 11018 on "softer" steel, can this be a problem?ThanksFrancois
Reply:If that was my problem, I would be putting holes in that bucket and bolting a cutting edge to the bottom. I can't imagine having to cut and weld evey time I changed a cutting edge.(about once a month during the busy season.)
Reply:I would agree that holes and bolts aren't a bad idea if you can get an edge for it with them. Our newholland backhoe (ford) had a bolted edge and so did the big loader. The edge on the track loader and the excavator bucket mounted to 2 teeth. The straight egde was welded to the top of 2 straight teeth and you put the edge on the same as you change teeth. That edge has a "step" that presses on the other teeth for support. Welding or bolting on teeth might make the machine more useable depending on what you do. Our skid steer is 50/50 with the straight edge and teeth. The NH dealer may not be the best place for straight edge options. We use a company the specializes in cutting edges and teeth for the local quarries / heavy equip. contractors. Cotterino Supply & Equipment Co Inc330 Trewigtown RdColmar, PA 18915(215) 822-9422They even got me a heavier edge for my plow. 6 seasons of running roads for the township and you hardly notice the wear. My guess is that most are either AR plate or T-1. I would try to either burn the welds with a torch or arc gouge or fire up the demo saw with a metal blade and go at them. You may also be able to weld right to the existing edge depending on what the new edge is like. 7018 would be my first choice or I would check with who I get the edge from and see if they have a better recomendation. Originally Posted by daddyIf that was my problem, I would be putting holes in that bucket and bolting a cutting edge to the bottom. I can't imagine having to cut and weld evey time I changed a cutting edge.(about once a month during the busy season.)
Reply:Daddy is right, put some holes in that thing and bolt the new one on.To get the old one off use a scarfing tip with A/O or do it the easy way with an Arc-Air cutter and just wash the weld off.
Reply:there was some holes in the welded cutter (they are now gone) but I don't like bolted cutting edge. I had one on my backhoe and it break in two when I did hit something with it. They also add thickness to the bottom of the bucket and make it a little harder to clean asphalt.I did already use this bucket three years. I have a lot of asphalt to clean with it (removing the dirt on it) The cutting edge is not completely gone, but since it is curved up at both ends, it dosen't scrape that good.I will look into scarfing tip for my o/a. I did find gouging tips on the harris website. Is it the same?As for air-arc cutter, this look like expensive, but I don't know. I have a ranger 8 with 210dc amp max. I have read that it is possible to gauge with 6011, but I don't know if I have enough power, or if this can be used in my case.Thanks
Reply:DSW, I run a road milling crew. The milled surface of asphalt is like 10 grit sandpaper, and the 30 hours of plowing it took you to mess up the one on the hoe is about wednesday for us in the summer! We actually get pretty good life out of them considering what we do. Keeping the angle of attack small with a new edge really helps to make them last longer. If you are curious about what make the asphalt sandpaper see "milling machine maintenance" in the projects section.Francois, ours are bolted to the bottom and my job is to clean asphalt for paving. Once they are worn in a bit they work fine. A broom or water is the only way to get cleaner.Last edited by daddy; 03-28-2008 at 08:53 PM.
Reply:Ok, that makes sense with you doing road work. Yeah a milled surface is probably closer to a file than sandpaper. I couldnt see wearing one on dirt, even rocky dirt that fast. If if was harder you'd need teeth. We wear out a lot of teeth on the excavator. I agree with the angle of attack, thats what I screwed up when plowing with the backhoe.francois it sounds to me like the same problem that I had when plowing. With the steep angle the blade wears in an arc. I know I do it all the time backdraging with the bucket turned almost vertical. I just have to remember not to do it on asphalt. (Not the easyiest thing) Also breaking the cutting edge when you hit something hard, say a curb, water box, manhole etc. isn't necessariliy a bad thing. We've fubared a number of plows when someone forgets that one is sticking up and hits it at say 30mph. I'd rather loose an edge than bend an arm, blow a cylinder or tear something up. I'll assume you meant you sheared the bolts not broke the edge. I would think the angle way to steep if you snapped the edge. If it was welded I'd expect you would bend the bucket floor hitting the same thing. Almost flat, edge on, that edge should hold against almost anything that the bolts would take if they are tight.Last edited by DSW; 03-28-2008 at 09:20 PM.
Reply:Yes, a scarfing tip is the same as a gouging tip. Got an old #1 or 2 tip? You can make your own tip easily> The only difference is it won't be bent like the factory tip. Just drill out the center hole in the tip to two or three times it's original diameter for a depth of 1/8". I was cutting the packing ring off the head on a water injection well one time and a new hand looked at that crooked tip and asked me what happened to it. I told him I got it so hot it just bent over by itself. He believed me.
Reply:I forgot to put this in the other post. The Arc- Air would probably strain the Ranger but it might handle 1/8" carbons. I used to use 3/16" carbons on an SA-200 and it really didn't want any larger. It also takes a pretty good air compressor. I don't think I would try gouging with regular rods
Reply:if the bucket has holes in the lip area (or had holes). then my guess is that it doesn't have a cutting edge. the leading edge of the bucket (mold board) is generally heavier than the bottom of the bucket. this is for wear and impact resistance. i was looking to purchase a bobcat 250 skidsteer, the very first one i came too the bucket was worn out. the owner never knew he needed to put cutting edges on. i asked hime if i could drill a hole in the bucket behind the moldboard. he let me and it was less than 1/8" even though the moldboard was still around 1/4". all the leading edges of (MOST) buckets are an AR type material. the rest is GR36 or GR80 on heavier machines. you need to repair the lip and bolt on a cutting edge. then hardface the bucket so it will last.i uses CE Sales in Charlotte for all my wear parts. unless they are out of stock and i have to use CAT stuff. I never throw away old wear plates. they make great parts for those nasty wear spots the OEM never seen coming. i weld AR with 7018 with pre/post heat. if i knew where you were at i could offer my services of. mold boards can be replaced, usually ordered from the distrubutor."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Daddy, I would really prefer not have anything bolted. I thing part of the problem is that we don't use the float fonction in the bobcat, so we put more pressure than needed on the bucket, and wear it faster. In the backhoe, we use the float and the welded edge is still good after 9 years ( the bolted cutter broke the first winter) I could be your sub. We fix the grass and the paver stone after the new street is done, if the level is not the same as it used to be. So we put some dirt on the street, and have to clean it, but only with the bucket, no water or broom.DSW, the wear is in arc but the real problem is the end of the cutting edge wich coes up, please see the pictureOldtimer, is there a way to gauge without air with the carbon. I don't think I will get the "handle" as I don't have much use for it and it seem to cost 200$. But I will check with my local suplyerBackuproller, my bucket seem to be 1/4 " thick, and the welded cutter 1/2", I did order the new cutter thru my NH dealer (even if I have a Case, as they are together now) and it was available with or without holes in it. I'm in Quebec, Canada.Thanks
Reply:Francois.  You can buy 1/8" carbons for about $.25 each or less.  With a little practice and a good blow gun (NOT a safty model) you can gouge with your welder.  I did it that way before I bought the right arc air holder.  Preheat the new edge and weld it on.  If you cut into something you shouldn't, weld it back together.  A torch works too, but I have more control with a carbon rod.Done a few or so bobcat buckets.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:You can do it with 6010 and reverse polarity, but you are going to have to do a lot of clean up. I wouldn't recommend it. Yes a scarfing tip is the same as a gouging or wash tip. Very handy to have if you do repairs on heavy equipment. I cut holes in several skidsteer and loader buckets during the cleanup down here to make it easier to change the cutter bars. I welded the teeth (I don't know what they are made of but they are very hard) onto the bucket on a Komatsu trackhoe for a guy two yards down the road from me. He had been having to have them re-welded about once a week. I used 7018 to put them on and that was about 8 months ago. They are all still on it and haven't had to be repaired. Now I get to build them up and put an edge on them. The arc-air isn't very expensive at all. Around 150 bucks for the small one. I wouldn't use anything bigger than 1/8th carbons on the ranger. You definitely need a healthy air compressor to use one.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Francois, If there is one thing that I claim to know, it is running the wheels off of a skid loader. I usually travel with two of them, amongst the other stuff, and we rarely use the float position either, unless grading stone. Once you wear a new edge in, it will be sharp enough to cut your skin, and should pick up anything you want if you do it right. I'll bet a good, hard, sharp edge would last you guys forever. Just my two cents, but I'll tell you, don't worry about being less able to scrape with it. It will be worse at first, but once you wear it down a bit it will be better. Like DSW said before, be careful of angle of attack. If too steep you can screw it up. Compare it to sharpening a knife, just bigger. Good luck, whatever you decide.As to the bolting... you must be sure to clean the bottom of the bucket and ensure a good fit. If the bottom of the bucket is not flat and you bolt an edge on it such that it can flex, you will break it or the bolts very easily.Last edited by daddy; 03-28-2008 at 10:59 PM.