When does a 1G weld become 3G?

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I was thinking about this today at work. When does the 1G position become 3G? If the surface to be welded is anything other than dead level is it then a 3G or is there a certain point at which it changes?If you had a joint that was at a 45 degree angle, its neither flat or completely vertical, so what is it?
Reply:Im sure someone will give the correct answer;however, there is a tolerance in degrees to determine what position it is. weld it like you own it
Reply:I'll try to post a diagram, but it is not much better than my explanation. 1G = Flat Position, which is from an inclination of axis(up and down) of 0(flat) to 15 degrees and a rotation of face(left and right) from 150 to 210 degrees.3G = Vertical Position has two sets of parameters.An inclination of axis of 15 - 80 degrees and a rotation of face from 80 - 280 degrees.An inclination of axis of 80 - 90 degrees and a rotation of face from 0 - 360 degrees.A weld at 45 degrees is either 3G or 4G, depending on the rotation of face.disclaimer:Image result found on some random site on the internet.  Not, I repeat NOT copied from AWS D1.1/D1.1M:2006.O_o Attached Images
Reply:in between must be 1 1/2 G ....Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Thanks Chris! The diagram really helped.
Reply:^^^ Ditto. Thx for the diagram.Love welding?  http://industrial-tools-equipment.com
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247in between must be 1 1/2 G ....
Reply:No worries guys.
Reply:Originally Posted by BurnitI was thinking about this today at work. When does the 1G position become 3G? If the surface to be welded is anything other than dead level is it then a 3G or is there a certain point at which it changes?If you had a joint that was at a 45 degree angle, its neither flat or completely vertical, so what is it?
Reply:Oh yah, to answer your question, or a variation of it:  how to know when it's no longer a 3G position?  When the guy marking the welding test comes and straightens it with a level "A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."
Reply:Originally Posted by z0diacthey CAN get technical - especially if you're only qualified to weld in a certain position, and the welding requires specific welding credentials from the welder I guess.
Reply:1G = Flat position2G = Horizontal position3G = Vertical (up) position {If you are going to use the designation, you're going to weld to code, go up, except to repair undercut.}4G = Overhead position...or were you talking about pipe.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by z0diac1G/2G/3G/etc is only for testing.  a 3G test would be at 90 degrees to flat (unless you have a tester that allows you a 5 degree cheat But it's irrelevant terminology when you're actually welding it.
Reply:go buy the procedure of arc welding by lincolin electric it will help you out a lot or check it out from your library best investment i ever made
Reply:Tanglediver,3G position is vertical up or vertical down.For welding procedures it can be up or down but for welder qualification if you qualify on up you can't go down and vice versa.Cheers,BB
Reply:Wouldn't know, I normally test in 6G or a production butt.  I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Sorry to jump on this again guys,There is no such thing as a 5 degree "cheat".The diagram that Chris Weld has supplied (not from AWS D1.1 !!!) is the exact same diagram that is in ASME IX.Based on that diagram if you had the rotation with the weld on the top you could have your coupon placed anywhere between 16 and 90 degrees and it would still be classed as 3G in accordance with the code.However,to be practical you would use the second set of readings which are 80 to 90 degrees, although in reality it is actually 80 to 100 degrees (plate leaning towards you 10 degrees or plate leaning away from you 10 degrees.)I have supervised hundreds of weld tests and apart from 6G tests I never put a spirit level on anything.Regards,BB
Reply:1G,2G,3G,4G,5G,6G are test positions for welder qualification tests.Flat, Horizontal, Vertical, and Overhead are welding positions for production.ASME Sec IX says Groove welds may be made in test coupons oriented inany of the positions in figure QW-461.3 or figureQW-461.4 and as described in the following paragraphs,except that an angular deviation of ±15 deg from the specifiedhorizontal and vertical planes, and an angular deviationof ±5 deg from the specified inclined plane are permittedduring welding.Based upon this statement, an inspector allowing a deviation from the "True" axis is not allowing something outside the allowance of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code Sec IX 2007 edition.A welder takes a test in the 3G position (Which allows for a 15 degree tilt as indicated by sec IX) is qualified to weld in the Flat and Horizontal Position. The test positions such as 3G are NOT the same as the production welding position "Vertical". Below is part of the chart used to determine the actual WELD position.For example, a person takes a test 3G and his papers indicate he is qualified 3G and 1G. He has a weld to make inclined 45 degrees as shown below. That position is NOT 3G or 1G. It is still vertical yet his papers don't reflect that because the person completing the document incorrectly referred to the range of qualification as 1G,3G instead of Flat, Vertical.There is a little more detail on my page at http://weldingdata.com/testpositionsVSWeldPositions.htm . Gerald AustinHave a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Gerald, good to see you posting more frequently, raising the bar
Reply:Hello pipewelder_1999,Greetings from New Caledonia.Cheers,Shane
Reply:good to see both of you over here
Reply:3G is vertical up/down, but the qualification is different.If you qualify 3g vertical up, you qualify downQualifying down does not qualify up.Just like qualifying without backing qualifies with backing, but qualifying with backing does not qualify without.I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:kbnit, do you have a reference for that?
Reply:qaqcAWS D17.1AMS-STD-1595AWS B2.1AWS D1.2I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:Kbnit,I sincerely hope the welding inspectors you are "teaching" are not working with ASME IX or AWS D1.1.ASME IX ( QW 405.3) and AWS D1.1 ((Table 4.11(5)) both class direction of travel (vertical up/down) as an essential variable so if you change your direction of travel from what you qualified on and you will need to requalify. Vertical up does not qualify vertical down.I will qualify this statement by saying I do not have access to the codes you have quoted but I would be very surprised if AWS D1.1 differed from the other AWS codes you have quoted.Regards,BBI would call it Out Of Position Weld.But as state 1G is Flat, 2G  is Horizontal, 3G  is Vertical, 4G  is Overhead.
Reply:Originally Posted by smokeshowI would call it Out Of Position Weld.But as state 1G is Flat, 2G  is Horizontal, 3G  is Vertical, 4G  is Overhead.
Reply:I am confused as to what you are trying to say?
Reply:The term 3G refers to a position for taking a test. That test position is in the Vertical position. A 3G test position can tilt forward or back 15 degrees and still be 3G.The vertical position can range from 15 Degree tilted up from flat up to and past 10 degrees of true vertical..The 3G position allows 15 degrees variation from the Vertical. Either direction.I threw this video together. http://weldingdata.com/pictures/vertical.wmvLast edited by gaustin; 04-27-2008 at 05:11 PM.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Gerry: nice video. makes it very clear what the difference between a test position and a production weld position are.For a complete reference on position limits, I like http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/Position.ppt Mr Sperko is one of the 'horse's mouths'.
Reply:I thought I had referenced that. I just sat through one of his seminars. It was great. His .ppt and my current code list a different number of degrees for the allowable deviation from a vertical plane . I may have missed something myself.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by kbnitqaqcAWS D17.1AMS-STD-1595AWS B2.1AWS D1.2
Reply:It would be a 6g weld.Welding Positions For Groove welds:- Welding Position Test Position ISO and  EN Flat 1G  PA Horizontal 2G PC Vertical Upwards Progression 3G PF Vertical Downwards Progression 3G PG Overhead 4G PE Pipe Fixed Horizontal 5G PF Pipe Fixed @ 45 degrees Upwards 6G HL045 Pipe Fixed @ 45 degrees Downwards 6G JL045  Welding Positions For Fillet welds:- Welding Position Test Position ISO and  EN Flat (Weld flat joint at 45 degrees) 1F PA Horizontal  2F PB Horizontal Rotated 2FR PB Vertical Upwards Progression 3F PF Vertical Downwards Progression 3F PG Overhead 4F PD Pipe Fixed Horizontal 5F PF
Reply:When i did my CWB qualification for SMAW vertical - the only way i was taught was going up due to the slag produced.  I've been welding only for a few years now and i expect to keep learning something new till the day i die.  Do people SMAW vertical down successfully?  When i GMAW vertical i usually travel downward.  I find going up in this process usually looks likes garbage.  But all my GMAW education is hands on.  I will take some photos of my welds and post them. Im employed as a fitter and change from mild steel to stainless to aluminum welding as the job requires.