I screwed up and now I need help

admin

I cut a old mobile home axle in a bandsaw and welded it crooked now I need to cut it back off and reweld it straight. Any thoughts on how to do this quick and simple with out using a sawzall  or putting it back in the band saw?
Reply:What do you have to cut with. O/A O/P Torch, plasma, grinder, metal chop saw, airarc?Heat and strighten with a torch and or sledge hammer.Waldo
Reply:if you cut the thing once, why not cut it again?Do you have a couple of 4 foot levels?
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggyI cut a old mobile home axle in a bandsaw and welded it crooked now I need to cut it back off and reweld it straight. Any thoughts on how to do this quick and simple with out using a sawzall  or putting it back in the band saw?
Reply:I do have a O/A torch here and yes I did just cut and weld but I did groove it for better penetration and I am not going to buy any axle when I have 2 or 300 hundred different ones sitting out in the yard. I have 1 four ft level that I can use I thought I had it right the first time I did it but I obviously didn't. I was going to machine an insert to put in the tube but I never got around to it but this time I will take another tube and machine it to 0.100 larger than the axle. I am not worried about the public since they don't worry about me  I am however worried about the nice new log splitter that will be mounted on the axle. I think if I torch the weld area and then put a one foot sleeve over it it would work best with out the need of really lining up since the pipe would be 0.100 larger than the axle itself. Thanks for the advice fellas I will get to cutting  and turning here in just a few moment's.
Reply:I hope you never put one of your shortened axles under something that really has to carry a load.                                        MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggy...I am not going to buy any axle when I have 2 or 300 hundred different ones sitting out in the yard....
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggyI do have a O/A torch here and yes I did just cut and weld but I did groove it for better penetration and I am not going to buy any axle when I have 2 or 300 hundred different ones sitting out in the yard. I have 1 four ft level that I can use I thought I had it right the first time I did it but I obviously didn't. I was going to machine an insert to put in the tube but I never got around to it but this time I will take another tube and machine it to 0.100 larger than the axle. I am not worried about the public since they don't worry about me  I am however worried about the nice new log splitter that will be mounted on the axle. I think if I torch the weld area and then put a one foot sleeve over it it would work best with out the need of really lining up since the pipe would be 0.100 larger than the axle itself. Thanks for the advice fellas I will get to cutting  and turning here in just a few moment's.
Reply:I got side A of my sleeve welded solid as a rock now (I used 7018) side B needs to be welded into place and I got the dial indicator out for that and I used a piece of 8-1/2 inch long pipe for my sleeve. I will be tacking it in place then tweaking it with my patent pending one hit wonder tweaking device until it spins with out moving my indicator. As of right now though I can rotate the axle and have it move up and down only about 1/4 of an inch or less with out the wheels visually toeing in or out. I didn't need to really shorten it but I cut it from 8ft? or so down to 5.6ft I was thinking of cutting it down to four but I didn't feel like burning that much gas. I wanted to put a set of springs on this axle but my two consultants out voted me oh well I will just weld it to the axle with 7018 and brackets.Last edited by blackdoggy; 06-11-2008 at 07:04 PM.
Reply:Well thats done I will post some pics in the morning when my batteries are totally charged up.
Reply:With current scrap steel prices, you could easily pay for a brand spankin' new one with a few of the 300 extras.....
Reply:Oh come on now where would the fun be in that?  Every mans got to keep at least three or four tons of scrap steel around in case of a I need to build something emergency.Last edited by blackdoggy; 06-11-2008 at 11:27 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggy...Every mans got to keep at least three or four tons of scrap steel around in case of a I need to build something emergency.
Reply:Wow, is steel that high? I've got one axle in my yard, maybe it's time to find a way to get it to the scrapyard.
Reply:Here are some pictures you guys wanted, the welds might not be pretty but the penetration is deep and there is little slag but some do look very professional.
Reply:I Like how you asked for advice on doing the job correctly, and proceeded to do the exact opposite. Thank you for wasting my time in trying to help you build something safely and properly, I'll just move on and help someone who actually needs it as you apparently have it all figured out.I might add that making a lot of globs does not mean you have deep penetration in your welds. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Those are not globs my friend they are beads that have been beat to heck an I know theres good penetration since the edges eroded on both the edges. Thanks for your advice, I am not using this thing on any major roads or going very far with it I will be welding a piece of channel stock to the top as a stiffener and flat area to weld on. The way I did it was as Dave said tacked it lined it up and then did beads like this CCCCC as I slowly rotated my axle then beat the tar out of them.Oh By the way I checked the thickness of my pipe and my axle and the pipe I used is 0.050 thicker than the axle itself and the axle wall is 0.200 .Last edited by blackdoggy; 06-12-2008 at 01:58 PM.
Reply:I must admit your definition of professional differs from mine by a great deal. 7018 is a low penetration electrode. If you try and dig deep with it your weld is no good. Keep practicing.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:This is all you need....Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I run practice beads like that every week or two just to keep my self sharp. I know 7018 is a low penetration rod but I have very little 6011 and 6013 left and most of it is tinny rods besides 90% of stuff that gets repaired here uses 7018. I got a major slowdown today after my finger got pinched between a steel rod and a cylinder .  I didn't get wounded to bad but I am supposed to wear a splint until Monday or Tuesday, oh well what dosen't kill us makes (most of us) smarter and stronger.
Reply:wait this is a joke right  i would seriously look into another trade like maybe junk yard mechanic or maybe the fire wood business will work out for you but i wouldnt count so much on the weldingComplete Fabrication Shop specializing in pipe fabrication. Also offering heavy steel fabrication and sheet metal work.
Reply:You maybe should have covered uo the shaft/seal on the pump befor you "welded" around it. Splatter can really mess things up. I did notice that you did stuff rags in the port thou.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Like I said nothing about that looks professional.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:And to think of all the crap I got over on the Miller forum (and a few others) when I suggested that welders should not be readily available for the general public for purchase with out some form of proper training.Some people just have no idea how they put everyone of as at risk when they get a welder or other power tools in hand. I honestly don't think practice will improve these welds with the type of attitude being shown by the o.p.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by Jolly RogerLike I said nothing about that looks professional.And to think of all the crap I got over on the Miller forum (and a few others) when I suggested that welders should not be readily available for the general public for purchase with out some form of proper training.                Dabar,now throw firearms in with that LOL, I know what ya meanpro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:And to think of all the crap I got over on the Miller forum (and a few others) when I suggested that welders should not be readily available for the general public for purchase with out some form of proper training.
Reply:isn't these the same series of pics you posted in your thread a month or so ago about you using 1/4" rods?  You definitely need more practice as your skills are still not "sharp" as you put it.  Attitude will help largely.  There is nothing wrong with not being a pro, but don't assume the pro's aren't gonna call you on something they don't think is upto par either.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggyHere are some pictures you guys wanted, the welds might not be pretty but the penetration is deep and there is little slag but some do look very professional.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyYou should get crap for suggestions like that.
Reply:It's the licensed drivers that scare me more than the crap welds ......
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310It's the licensed drivers that scare me more than the crap welds ......
Reply:So I would have to shut down a 12 year old business because I haven't had "proper" training?  I've had guys who had  "training" or thru tech school programs come apply for a job, that i wouldn't hire because they didn't know their butts from a hole in the wall.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingSo I would have to shut down a 12 year old business because I haven't had "proper" training?  I've had guys who had  "training" or thru tech school programs come apply for a job, that i wouldn't hire because they didn't know their butts from a hole in the wall.
Reply:Ok then give me a little bit and I will get out one of my test plates for you guys it looks a little bad but that's mainly because I put it into a press to test my welds, I will also run some beads for you.
Reply:Originally Posted by dabar39Would you hire the work of the original poster? Would you proudly display this work to a customer and expect to get paid for it? Would you feel safe letting a customer drive down the road towing this piece of equipment?Would you gladly pay the raise in your insurance premiums because of work like this? Now if you would honestly say that you would allow work like this to come from your shop of 12 years, then yes, it needs to be shut down. nuff said.
Reply:It might not look the best but you got to remember A. the welding rods are older than I am (and some of you) B. the 6013 has been stored unsealed on top of a fridge for the past 20+ years and the 7018 has been stored in a unheated fridge for the same time in a cardboard box C.  I am not able to grip my stinger quite right since I have a splint on one of my fingers. The better welds there were done with the 6013 and the nastier looking ones were done with a 7018 rod. If you want to get a better look let me know and I will post a link to the full sized picture the reduced size image makes the welds look worse than they really are.Last edited by blackdoggy; 06-14-2008 at 09:06 AM.
Reply:Blackdoggy,I have to agree 100% with Dave on this thread.Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, in any of your photos looks PROFESSIONAL.If you can't find a few bucks to buy a new box of rods, then maybe you shouldn't be welding.I'd suggest you take a couple of those 2-3 hundred axles to the scrap yard and trade them for scrap plate.  Then you'd have some material to practice/test your welds with.Not trying to be an a-hole, but you're not ready to weld anything that "goes over the road".  Everyone has to start somewhere, but with your attitude, I don't see you getting to the point of being an accomplished welder.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:The welds there on the I beam were done to spec with 6011 root then capped off and I had angled the parts before I welded them at an angle to provide maximum penetration. I am not going to buy new rods when I have over 500LBS still in the can and or box. But every one's definition of professional is different and you also got to understand the axle weld was looking good before it was hammered. Again this is never really going to be on more than a few dirt roads and in a apple orchard. If I was planning on running on the main roads I would never have touched my rig with a stick and I would have gotten my mig welded repaired and used that. I will also get you a better picture of the best welds I have on my beam.
Reply:Would you feel safe knowing that your family is riding down the highway with "deep penetrated welds" and that some even look "professional" being good enough?
Reply:The last pictures of welds that were proceeded by a bunch of excuses above the pictures were nothing great either.  Sorry, but they are not professional.  The plate looks like it wasn't ground clean first.  The beads are inconsistent.I work on peoples cars and trucks every day.  Their lives depend on me.  If its not 100% satisfactory to ME, I do it over or make sure its done right.  Brakes, suspension, steering........DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:It's real easy to pick apart blackdoggy's work, and explanations...The welds looked good until I "beat the tar" out of them. If it was important I would have fixed my mig instead of using sticks... Why?, and Huh???  The real question is this:  Can any one of us figure out a way to convince him that he needs to re-assess his abilities, practice a bunch more, and follow the well intended advice of some very knowledgeable and seasoned pro's?As a foreman of a six man crew, I've found ,( the hard way), that every man is different and requires different motivation. What is his? It's hard to know via internet.Maybe he will help us to help him.If I was looking for help,  and got a bunch of sage advice, I'd listen and follow that good advice. If I was sittin' on 10 large of scrap, I'd be cashing in right now as well. Hell, you might even be able to afford a rod oven after you bought everything else you needed....blackdoggy, have a good day... Some of these guys are very blunt, but if you have any brains in your head you will listen to what they say. You have had responses from some HIGHLY qualified guys.
Reply:I tryed to post this earlier but my internet links been iffy lately. Blackdoggy, I'd like to have the link to the full sized pict of your welds. To me they all look cold, and many look like you may be moving to fast. When I get the full sized pict I'll take a better look at it.There's nothing wrong with using "old" rod for some purposes. I have a bunch of old rod that I was given or is leftover from the occasional stick job, that I use for practice and letting guys learn with. I use it from time to time on small non critical projects, welding table, jigs, log holder for my buddy and so on. I must have close to 200+ lbs of various rods laying around. Did you even try and heat the old 7018? If I plan on letting someone practice with my old 7018 rods I try and toss them in the oven at 250-300 for at least an hour to try and dry them some what so they run a bit better.That said, there is a time when you need to go out and buy some good rod. I would class welds on an axle or parts on a splitter that will see a good bit of force in the "need new rod" catagory. 9 times out of 10 thats what I do if I feel the need to run stick. The leftovers are where I get most of my old rods from. You don't need to buy a 50lb box, a small 5-10 lb box would most likely have taken care of all your requirements. In theory it's more expensive pound for pound to buy the small box vs the big ones, but I bet you will find a lot of "professionals" that do it this way. Why would someone who works for himself want to "waste" it by buying more expensive rods? The reason is that they don't use enough rod to keep the rod fresh in big boxes. The buy what you need, is there for "cheaper" than having a good bit of rod that won't meet the requirements of the job at some later date. The time spent fixing a bad weld do to "old" rod isn't worth the extra money saved. I'll bet the time it took for you to "repair" that axle is more than it would have cost to buy a new axle or even a box of 50lb box of new rods. I'm curious as to why you feel the need to beat the ever living pi$$ out of the welds. I see a few posibilities. One the slag doesn't want to come off. 7018 & 6013 the slag should just peal itself off most times, IF the settings are right and you made a good weld. Look at some of pipefitters 6013 welds. Another reason is that you are not waiting for the slag to cool and are beating it when it's still very hot. Slow down and let the slag cool and it will come off easier and not beat up your welds. I'm guessing both of these are part of your problem. There should be no need to "peen" these welds to reduce stress. If you are worried about stress cracking in an axle or a splitter then you are using the wrong materials or don't have a good enough understanding of what is going on metalurgically.
Reply:Dave, or any other moderator please lock this thread.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingDave, or any other moderator please lock this thread.
Reply:No personal attacks, no bad language.   No reason to lock the thread.  Actually this is going quite well to me.Its Sunday, I will go out and run a 6013 bead and 7018 and put a pic here.I think the real situation is in the first post, some the welds were deemed as professional.  I don't see any agreement.   It makes for some good discussion and I give kudos to everyone that responded with respect.  Look at the thread title.  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:1/8" 7018 145 amps arc force on smoooth on the left1/8" 6013 DCEN 130 amps arc force on crisp on right.60137018 Originally Posted by blackdoggy
Reply:Blackdoggy I did the same thing David did but with the oldest 7018 rod I could find in my pile of misc rods. The 7018 is at least 10 years old and has been stored on a shelf in a slip on lid box. I used it as is and didn't try and dry the rod. I would have done 6013 but I don't have any 1/8" 6013 and wanted to use old rod that matched Davids.Here's what the rods look like.The weld, same as David 145 amps 7018 1/8". I used my syncrwave 200 with what ever the stock settings for stick are. ( Actually it's the first time I have run stick on the new machine.) . As you can see the slag just wants to peal off.Keep in mind I don't weld stick often. Maybe once or twice a year if that. I've had some but not much training on running stick.This weld was done cold. I didn't run any practice beads at all, just pulled out the rod set the machine and ran the weld. I don't claim to be good at stick, in fact its probably my worst process next to out of position tig ( overhead and vert.) and tig alum that I am still learning.Last edited by DSW; 06-15-2008 at 02:24 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackdoggyHere are some pictures you guys wanted, the welds might not be pretty but the penetration is deep and there is little slag but some do look very professional.
Reply:I'm new to the site and am not trained or certified, but do have some experience welding. I agree the welds in question aren't professional looking but think that for his purpose they are adequate. Reading between the lines, I'd bet he is old with arthritis and bad eyesight, using  rod that is not only old but perhaps has flaking coating, which even may have come into the yard as scrap; the welding equipment may also be old, poorly maintained, and have low arc voltage. It also looks as if the slag may have not peeled partly because the arc amperage was too low.I think giving him information about improving his technique is more useful than arguing about whether the welds are "professional"; we all know they aren't, and he'd probably admit he'd like to be able to do better, if in a less hostile situation.Not everything I have done is as pretty as I'd like; last fall, I built a 425 gallon compost drum by quartering two old 100 gallon water heaters and  then welding the 8 sections together. The domed top was also quartered so I had to fit pieces between those sections and in the center hole. The two tanks were of different thickness material and were glass coated but with lots of rust and corrosion going through the wall. They were what I had to work with, and the resulting tank was sound once finished.And it was all built with scrounged material, from the tanks and most of the rod, to the epoxy it was lined with.