What kind of welding do I need to learn?

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Hello all. I'm new here. I'm looking to get into welding part time and my main interest is how to build iron staircases, railings, gates, etc. for custom homes. My local community college offers welding classes which I will take to learn welding 101.But, can someone point me in the right direction for the type of welding I need to learn to build this kind of stuff. Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by easyironhideHello all. I'm new here. I'm looking to get into welding part time and my main interest is how to build iron staircases, railings, gates, etc. for custom homes. My local community college offers welding classes which I will take to learn welding 101.But, can someone point me in the right direction for the type of welding I need to learn to build this kind of stuff. Thanks.
Reply:Oxy acetylene. It will teach you puddle control at a learnable speed. Everything else is faster and it might intimidate a new weldor. Since all manual welding depends on puddle control, O/A will teach you best. Yes, I know it's pretty much extinct. Even though I can TIG aluminum, when I took a class last year, the 30 year pipe weldor made me start in O/A; and I'm glad he did. IMHO I'd guess after puddle control, MIG (with gas).9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Mig welding for the shop building part. But knowing how to TIG can benefit you as well if you ever need to do any welding in some ones home that is finished and splatter is a problem.The welding is the easy part of building railings and stair rails, the lay out and building to fit is the hard part. And you want to have a good knowledge of  grinding and finish techniques as well.
Reply:You would be doing stick welding in most cases...although mig is really a better option for it.
Reply:getting proficient with running GMAW will give you the best opportunity to get your foot in the door somewhere. from there you will be able to expand your capabilities.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverOxy acetylene. It will teach you puddle control at a learnable speed. Everything else is faster and it might intimidate a new weldor. Since all manual welding depends on puddle control, O/A will teach you best. Yes, I know it's pretty much extinct. Even though I can TIG aluminum, when I took a class last year, the 30 year pipe weldor made me start in O/A; and I'm glad he did. IMHO I'd guess after puddle control, MIG (with gas).
Reply:I've always disagreed that Oxy-acet welding is a good starting point.  IMO, saying it helps you learn other processes is like saying that crutches could help you learn to walk.  I did very little oxy welding in high school, and haven't done any since..and that's been about 20 years.It's obsolete for all but small niche markets that aren't going to pay you much anyway.  My advice is to go with stick welding first.  It's cheaper and you will spend less money learning the basics.  It is widely used, with no end in sight.
Reply:Well, I have many years experience in decorative iron work. I have never used Tig for any of it. I have used sticks in the field, but they are the least desirable method. Indoors it's GMAW and outdoors it's FCAW. Looks wise Tig has nothing at all on what a good GMAW hand can do and you will not turn a profit trying to use it for production. Bob hit the nail on the head. The welding is the easy part. The math is the real trick. You will definitely need a copy of the "Pipefitter's and Welder's Handbook". It has all of the equations, step by step instructions for them, and the trig tables you need to get the answers.Engloid, think about this. I learned Tig from a school trained welder back when there wasn't such a thing (he was a foreign fellow and still the best Tig hand I have ever seen). This was my Tig instruction: Can you weld with a torch? Yes. It's the same thing. This is your torch and this is your rod, now do it. The basic difference is you have finer control with a Tig vs a torch, and you use a darker lens. I don't weld with a torch very often anymore, but when I do I get paid just as much as I do for any other process. It's no good for any type of production work I am aware of, but it shows you exactly how metal acts with heat and how the puddle flows and you can learn a lot about what you are doing by watching that slow moving puddle. I started learning O/A 40 years ago, yet just today I used the knowledge of puddle flow I gained from it while welding overhead with sticks.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I use mig and stick primarily.  I hate mig, though it is valuable process for ornamental stuff.  I use O/A when it is in my hand.  Chances are you will use a o/a torch for heating, bending, brazing and cutting so why not learn welding.  It's just fun, though usually not practical.     Like they said,  everything else takes more time than welding in ornament stuff.  Learn to use epoxy and bondo, too--that might really really upset the purest.  just make sure there will be no electric finishing process.
Reply:Id try and learn anything that anyone wants to teach you.  You never know when you may need to use it.As others have said, i like gas welding.  For awhile it was all i had in the garage and i used it for tons of stuff until i got a mig welder and im still searching for a tig welder.All the processes have the same concept, its about puddle control.  Learn how to control and manipulate a puddle and the rest of it will follow.
Reply:Your community college will likely start you welding Oxy Acetylene gas welding.  I think it's the best process for decorative work, and likely will prove easier and less hassle when dealing with ornamental iron castings.  In your proposed line of "work" you will have cause to consider brazing over welding in many circumstances as well.Don't be put off by the idea of "just" brazing work either - done correctly brazing can be stronger than a good weld, and with a lot less effort (albeit a lot more patience).  Before you buy a welder, you should buy a book on welding.  There are numerous good titles out there for you to read.  Most of my welding books are well worn.
Reply:It's a odd old world out there.  For railing Jolly Rodger has never used TigTapwelder uses Mig and StickI have never used Stick.I should add I only do ally or SS, so I guess that shows that you need to know what medium you will be working with and plan appropriately .As others said the welding in balustrading is an important  but minor part of the process, design and set out will make or break you.Good Luck BrettA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Originally Posted by Jolly RogerEngloid, think about this. I learned Tig from a school trained welder back when there wasn't such a thing (he was a foreign fellow and still the best Tig hand I have ever seen). This was my Tig instruction: Can you weld with a torch? Yes. It's the same thing. This is your torch and this is your rod, now do it.
Reply:Engloid,I have to agree with your last post
Reply:Engloid, why so down on oa? crutches..training wheels...???it does give a real good understanding of heat, of puddle, of so many things you just cant see with stick, or mig...obviously if you are only going to stick weld, strictly commercially, you can say that anything else is a waste.. but oa is so flexible..what if the power goes out??2 cents..
Reply:From OP:"My local community college offers welding classes which I will take to learn welding 101."This is from a hobby perspective, 26" of books on the shelf, 85% read, enthusiastic weldor.I'm 60, retired desk worker, hobby O/A for years (no 220v), then took the O/A class last year with another 'old' guy. I got through all projects and then the 4 positions, bent 12 coupons with no failures. Could I have started right off with TIG and saved myself the 'wasted' time? Heck, yes. But poor ole Mikey (name changed) was completely out of his element. I never could help him, even with the basics. Flame adjustments, torch angles, puddle size, filler angle, focal distance; everything was hard for him. Now, add the complexity of dipping the tungsten in the puddle and dipping the filler in the tungsten and the short arc length TIG works best with. That poor ole guy would have set a record for number of tungstens used, dipped, sharpened. And he would have left scarred for life.Engloid, I've been to your site. You are a gifted weldor. And since I am 60, I'm old school and respect your skills. But since I sat right next to him, I also know Mikey would have been hopelessly lost. These are the two extremes.Craig 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadEngloid, why so down on oa? crutches..training wheels...???it does give a real good understanding of heat, of puddle, of so many things you just cant see with stick, or mig...obviously if you are only going to stick weld, strictly commercially, you can say that anything else is a waste.. but oa is so flexible..what if the power goes out??2 cents..
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverBut poor ole Mikey (name changed) was completely out of his element. I never could help him, even with the basics. Flame adjustments, torch angles, puddle size, filler angle, focal distance; everything was hard for him. Now, add the complexity of dipping the tungsten in the puddle and dipping the filler in the tungsten and the short arc length TIG works best with. That poor ole guy would have set a record for number of tungstens used, dipped, sharpened. And he would have left scarred for life.Engloid, I've been to your site. You are a gifted weldor. And since I am 60, I'm old school and respect your skills. But since I sat right next to him, I also know Mikey would have been hopelessly lost. These are the two extremes.Craig
Reply:That's cool Brett, but there is no call for it here otherwise I would do it. Hell I even like doing it, but the fact is around here it is all steel and castings. That is what the customers want so that's what you give them (with the way everything rusts down here they would be a far superior choice in my opinion). Mig is the most cost effective process when working in these materials. Competition is also very fierce around here and I have yet to figure out a way to make tig competitive. I've used sticks to repair it in the past but with portable mig capabilities available now it is so much easier. For on site repairs I use a 250 dollar Lincoln WeldPak HD that runs on 110 and use their outlets when I can. You can't buy a 30lb (quality) tig for anywhere near that and then you still have to have that bottle of gas. Someone mentioned brazing and made an excellent point. I do on occasion have to use it. I have used Tig on modern iron castings and it works wonderfully well. Start repairing 150+ year old iron castings and I am afraid it might not go so well. Sometimes even brass doesn't want to work on them. Maybe you know otherwise and I would appreciate knowing it if you do, but I have never heard of tig being used to join dissimilar metals. I use mig for it regularly with better results than sticks. I've never used bondo on any of it, but I have used fast setting epoxy to fill in holes and voids on cast welds and casting repairs before painting.If I were doing aluminum railings I would try to use my Miller XR feeder (I don't know if you have anything like them down under as what I have heard is the equipment we typically use here isn't seen very often there and your common equipment is basically unknown here). I would also try out the mig on SS as well. I've used tig and sticks for both for years but have never had the opportunity to try mig on them (when you work for someone else you have to do it with what they give you, and when you go solo it takes a while to round it all up). I experiment for several reasons with the first being I like to make my own judgements about how well something works. I always learn something by doing it and I am always looking for ways to improve efficiency, quality, and profits.Easy the best advice I can give you is don't limit yourself to one process or one specific area. Demand goes up and down all the time. I really like doing the ornamental stuff, but I actually make a lot more off of heavy equipment repair and heavy fabrication work. The more skills you have the more valuable you become. In custom fab work torch, design and fitting skills are every bit as important as welding skills and sometimes more important. I seldom ever have a print or even a drawing to work from. Most of the time it's a case of I want something to do this. Can you build me one? That's the part that makes my job fun. The fact that I actually enjoy welding is just the gravy on top.I'm sorry you feel you wasted your time on O/A Engloid, but I can guarantee you if you think back on it you were already way ahead of the guys in your tig classes that had never touched anything. I don't know the current price of Ar VS Acetylene, but I think you are in for a surprise. The last bottle of C25 I bought was several months ago, but it cost me twice as much for a 70 cu ft bottle as it cost me for a 240 cu ft bottle of O2 (O2 was .0058 cents a cu ft then and 2 weeks ago was ,0079 cents a cu ft). The Ar was 4 cents a cu ft. The last bottle of Acetylene I picked up (2 weeks ago) was about 3.06 cents a cu ft. The last 1/8th Tungsten I bought was 4 bucks a stick. My complete Victor setup would run over 1000 bucks and I have a lot of stuff a beginner has no need for. My Harris setup (I prefer it for welding) can be purchased for 250 bucks. It isn't a heavy duty setup and I bought it for the regulators. My tig machine with cooling unit goes for 5000 dollars. Mig rig for aluminum production work 6000+ dollars. A Miller or Lincoln mig capable of ornamental iron production work in steel can be had brand new for under 1000 bucks with cart and bottle. When you start paying the bills suppositions turn into a luxury you are no longer allowed and you have to start factoring in a lot of things you never thought of or just flat out never knew. I care a lot more about the welding than I do about the business end, but without it there is no profit and no welding.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:O/A is by no means outdated.  Most small aircraft still employ gas welds extensively.  It just isn't used much if you're a pipe welder these days.Gas torches are used frequently in the automotive industry.  Nobody worth their salt runs a shop without fire, as one of my dad's old mentors used to say.  Can your TIG torch free a rusted fastener?  I'd like to see it.  A torch is just an invaluable tool to keep around the shop and house.If you don't like gas welding that's fine, but to scoff at it as anything less than an invaluable skill in some fields is a mistake.All that said, TIG is frequently the superior choice.  I am still learning, practicing every day as often as I can on my Invertec 205.  And I'm trying to get good without using the pulse generator first.  Using pulsed TIG, you can be a pretty crummy welder and still make it look like a robot did your work.    I'm happier than a kid in a candy store with all those digital displays and functions.I can't say that I "like" or "dislike" any welding process though.  It's all a matter of what accomplishes my ends.  If I have to patch up some fencing, SMAW or FCAW.  I enjoy welding either process and can weld proficiently in most positions.If I'm trying to build up the flange on a busted exhaust header on an old dirtbike, I'll probably reach for my torch set.  It's just easier to me that way, and there's something about playing with fire that I always enjoyed.  Perhaps it goes back to my original experiences in high school with a silver smithing class I took (and later taught).I if I want a good clean weld and want the ultimate control over strength and penetration and I'm in no hurry, I'll use TIG.If I'm in a hurry, MIG.  It's fun to weld MIG for me because of the speed and precision it affords.  If you're a good welder, you can weld every process, every position, either hand, about equally as well.  That's how I was taught and that's how I will stick to it if I ever get the chance to instruct the future generation of welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by CDGO/A is by no means outdated.  Most small aircraft still employ gas welds extensively.
Reply:I never wished to insinuate the TIG was any slower than Oxy-Acetylene welding.  They are as you say about the same (slow) speed.  When I am welding TIG it feels like I might even be going a little faster.  Yeeehaw, 8 inches per minute!!   :  With the pulse generator I can easily match most any gas welding.  That doesn't make me a good welder though - the pulse generator is cheating!  You seem fairly adamantly opposed to OA welding.  Were you wronged by a torch in the past?  Gas welding admittedly has only a few select industry specific applications, such as airframes and engine mounts as I mentioned before.  I'm a little more comfortable doing some things with OA than I am in TIG - probably more a factor of my training than anything else.  You seem like a talanted fellow though, I'm sure you can say that TIG will easily do the same, of not a better job.  If we both do about the same job though I can't really see what the hell we'd be arguing about.  It's not like OA welding is especially more expensive than TIG.My main point, the core to my argument for OA welding is the other related fields it opens to a new welder.  A torch set and the ability to fundamentally control a torch gives you the ability to:1) Weld almost anything ferrous or non ferrous with the exception of some high strength automotive steels.2) Preheat (in a pinch if you must)3) Solder4) Braze5) CutA TIG setup will allow you to:1) Weld2) Weld High strength steels in automotive applications.  Useful for body men, who use MIG, a far superior process for speedy work.Personally from my experience, I think that wirefeed welding is the way to go.  If I'm doing a general repair job, the first welder I'll think to reach for is GMAW or FCAW.  It's faster than TIG or OA, and is usually better than SMAW.So maybe we should list pros and cons of each process?  The way I see it is this:TIG is easier to weld, especially with pulsed TIGTIG produces a cleaner weldTIG tends to produce less warpage.  Not that you can't warp especially thin sheet metal.TIG tends to make aluminum welding somewhat easier.  I seldom weld aluminum and am not much good at it either.TIG usually represents an expensive equipment investment.  TIG requires dedicated circuitry in your home garage capable of 15-20 amps 120, or a 220 outlet that not all garages will have.OA welders are bulky with heavy gas bottles and fragile regulatorsOA welding involves a lot more mess and warpage in your piecesOA involves Acetylene - a highly combustible and dangerous gasOA welding can be difficult to pick up at first, especially with thin gauge metalsOA welders are inexpensive- a quality used torch set is almost always under $250 with regulators.OA torches are much more useful for other tasks around the houseOA torches will not fry electronics in the surrounding area.Would you call that more or less accurate?  Clearly I would sooner die than agree that OA welding is useless.
Reply:mminor points; but tig needs gas and a regulator too, and can also be frustrating to learn...