Porosity with innershield???

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Guys I took my 12VS feeder with me this weekend on a job just to play around a bit, and it gave me such a fit I finally wound up running 7018's.  I started using radnor .035" innershield, and thought that might be the problem so I stopped at Lowes, and picked up a spool of Lincoln NR211-mp, and it was the same as the radnor..  As far as setting I ran everything from 15 volts to 21 Volts, and every wire speed imaginable.  I could not for the life of me get it to lay a bead out of position that was not porous.  Flat was fine, but any out of position, and it went nuts.  I ran up hill an down hill, and it seemed to make no difference.  It was not porous like when using solid wire without gas, but rather just pin holes all along the bead.  The actually welds looked nice except for the pin holes.   I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.  I don't have alot of experience with fluxcored so I thought I would see what your experiences are.  Thanks.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:rust with 211 will cause some porosity.  The first time i ran some 211 i didnt bother to grind off the rust from a practice peice, and got pinholes all over.  Since you run 7018 alot i would assume this is not your problem.  What was your stickout length?  High winds?  Im guessing its a combination of stickout and angle.  I run straight in when doing vertical, and drag it when doing overhead and horizontal.  Its been so long since i ran .035 that i dont remember what settings i used were and i cant find my innershield guide, im sure someone else will chime in.
Reply:Is the material painted?What about polatrity? Did you switch polarity?
Reply:The material was rusty, but it was ground clean prior to welding.  I was using probably a 1/2" stickout with a slightly upward angle.  No real winds that could cause a problem.  I was setup on DC-.  I don;t really intend to run the .035", but I figured i would run it a bit while I am waiting on my other drive roll kits to get here so i can set it up with 1/16"I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:well, bobs your uncle.  You got me, im fresh out of ideas.
Reply:Go to the Lincoln website, there's several PDF files, you can read and print out.   Everything you ever wanted to know about innershield wires, it's there.  Only comments I will make here, with 211, and not actually seeing anything, it's very voltage sensitive, and the parameters are NOT flexible .....   With that small of a wire (I've only gone down to .045), even 15 volts may be at the top end.   And when running vertical, either up or down, you sometimes just have to slow the WS down, reduce the voltage accordingly, and take your time.   211 especially, has a very limited range of parameters that it works correctly in.  Properly applied, it should have a very light, even coating of slag over the whole bead, and, as I'm sure you know, no holes.
Reply:I'm only a novice so maybe I don't know...But that sounds like the trouble I had after switching my Lincolm Mig140 from E70 (Superarc L56) GMAW process to FCAW process (NR211MP).  I turned off the C25, changed the wire, the tip, the nozzel, the feed roller, set the voltage and wire speed, and proceeded to make a mess.  What did I forget???  I forgot to change the polarity!  GMAW = Electrode positive / FCAW = Electrode negative.  After I fixed that there was joy!-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:And don't forget, also very important with a VS feeder, especially with an innershield wire, you need a good, clean ground, both for the power source and for the feeder.  In addition, be sure you have a good liner, dragging wire and poor grounds can drive you nuts.
Reply:211MP is supposed to be one of the -easier- fluxcore wires to 'dial in' and run.If you're used to bigger wires and more 'industrial' type stuff, 0.035 might be a little small. Max rated plate thickness for that wire and size is only 5/16 inch (up to 0.045 wire diameter, larger diameter 211MP is rated for max 1/2 inch thick plate).  And the CWD is only 3/8 to 1/2 inch, so if you're used to bigger stuff and a bigger stick-out, that might be the problem.
Reply:"If its got slag, drag it" You are going to like the 1/16.   Print out the parameters from Lincoln electric for the wire.  Its worth the time.  I also had to time my wire feeder to see what "5" was in true inches per minute.  I wrote down on the machine each setting 1-10 on the machine.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I couldn't get to the parameters before, now I sort of can (dang computer updates and I couldn't find the paper copy)0.035 NR-211MP DC- 3/8 inch stick-out50 ipm  14V  30 amps70 ipm  15V  60 amps90 ipm  16V  90 amps110 ipm  16.5V  120 ampsNote the plate thickness limit (5/16 inch plate MAX for up to 0.045 dia wire, and 1/2 inch thick plate MAX for larger than 0.045 diameter wires) and that NR-211MP is NOT rated for structural/seismic/pressure-vessel use or any other use needing or requiring rated impact (CVN) properties.Last edited by MoonRise; 07-01-2008 at 01:45 PM.Reason: more info
Reply:NR211 MP is the 6013 of self shielding wire.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RNR211 MP is the 6013 of self shielding wire.David
Reply:Generaly speaking porosity or "chicken tracks" are signs of too much heat and no enough wire speed. When a new apprentice is learning FCAW I tell them to set up the machine and set the wire speed to where it stubs then dial it back in small incriments until it stops stubbing...now this is not scientific but it helps them to learn how to troubelshoot. Like I said porosity usualy means not enough wire speed with TOO much heat.'Mike
Reply:I run a lot of 211 in .035 with voltage sensing feeders. I use 2 different feeders and 3 different power supplies. Typically I have a Hefty hooked up to either an Eagle 10,000 (strictly CC/DC) I can't even hazard a guess as to the voltage but usually have the machine set from 100 to 130 amps. It performs real well with a 3/8 stickout, or an XMT 304 on cc at 16 to 21 volts and about 1/4 stickout. It also performs well. The LN-25 is normally connected to a Ranger 275 and again no clue on the voltage. The best I can get for stickout on it is 1/4 inch and generally less. I haven't had any problems with pinhole type porosity but have with bugholes (big holes). I have found 3 things that seem to cause this. Number one is dirty metal and by that I mean anything that can be drawn into the puddle even from the backside when welding hot, including smoke from paint or other contaminants. Some of the stuff I have to work on is virtually impossible to get completely clean. Rust, paint chemicals, etc. It also has a tendency to be so thin it is difficult to use any type of stick electrode for repairing it and actually getting the job finished. If this is happening quite a bit I have found you can run a quick pass with it, clean it up good and then run a second heavier pass. This seems to clean it up real well and eliminate the holes. I have broken a few of them to see what it looks like inside and can't see any defects. The second is wind. Lincoln says even high winds have no effect on it,  but it does. The solution I have found for this is to weld into the wind if at all possible.  The third is travel speed. Going too fast will make it look like swiss cheese. It takes some adjustment in technique. I have found that backstepping in the flat helps a lot and (this is hard to describe but I will try) in a fillet start on the bottom side step ahead then slide back up the puddle onto the top side, slide back down the puddle and ahead on the bottom and repeat. You have to pay close attention to the puddle. After a while you will be able to see them trying to form as you weld. Stepping back into the puddle in the area where it is forming and giving a slight hold then moving on will usually correct it. I primarily use it on sheet metal (16 - 10ga and sometimes thinner) and material up 1/4 inch (angle iron and channel mostly). I don't use it for repairs on items such as trailer frames and for repairs on heavy equipment. I just don't trust it for this and since I guarantee it I stick with the tried and true as in 6010 and 7018. My experience has been that it works well for light stuff, and things that don't have to handle a lot of stress. I have skinned several trailers with it, rebuilt rolloff containers, and added sides to trailers with it with good results (21 foot containers and 48 foot semi-trailers). These things are seriously abused and I haven't had to make any repairs due to weld failure that wouldn't have failed with anything you used. The only welds I had to repair were attaching 3/16 X 3 X 2 angle and it was struck so hard it ripped the angle in two in the middle of the span. The welds that failed were single pass overhead welds done with 4 inches of weld and skip one foot. All I had to repair were 4 sets. Hope some of this might help. I will be trying .045 in the LN-25 shortly and hope to get better results and am considering 1/16 or perhaps a different wire.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715Generaly speaking porosity or "chicken tracks" are signs of too much heat and no enough wire speed. When a new apprentice is learning FCAW I tell them to set up the machine and set the wire speed to where it stubs then dial it back in small incriments until it stops stubbing...now this is not scientific but it helps them to learn how to troubelshoot. Like I said porosity usualy means not enough wire speed with TOO much heat.
Reply:Well my camera was dead so i didn't get pics today, but it is very possible that I could have been running it too hot according to the parameters.  I tried it again today for a short while and lower the voltage from where I had been running, and it performed alot better.  Scratches are not really what I was getting.  More like pn holes in spot like an old 7018 can leave when it gets wet..  My drive rolls got here today for the 1/16 wire so I will be trying it this week also.  I would also like to find a good flux cored wire to use on pipe.  anyone have any suggestions?   Thanks for the advice.  ~JacksonLast edited by Hammack_Welding; 07-01-2008 at 09:50 PM.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:are you talking about one of those POS 115v units?  i've had this problem too with innershield. it looks like bubbles precipitated to the surface?  adjusting the tension on the drive rolls made a lot of difference as well as making sure the lead to the gun was straight and had no bends or loops in it.  new contact tips have helped as well as adjusting the wire speed, and bondo is one good way to make the problem go away.  but if nothing else at least now you know you're not alone in this problem.
Reply:The stick out is to much 1/4 to 3/8 is plenty, no more than 3/8.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_Welding I would also like to find a good flux cored wire to use on pipe.  anyone have any suggestions?   Thanks for the advice.  ~Jackson
Reply:stick out the problem with fluxcore?
Reply:Travel speed, and wire speed play a big role. Also windy conditions can and will blow away shielding gases released. Try building a half assed little containment around the area you are working...nothing insane or elaborate but jsut enough to block the wind. In my experience innershield is very picky when it comes to working inside of the parameters of the wire. Heat and wirespeed are your friend...you just need to have the right amount of each to make things work right.'Mike
Reply:I frequently just hold my hand upwind of the weld a few inches when wind is a problem. It usually solves the problem unless it's really blowing. If it hits about 35 mph we usually just shut down.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.