manganese frogs

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Has anyone ever welded on these. They are part of the track switching gear on a railroad. I have heard that you need to put them in a water cooling tank while welding on them to keep the heat down if not you end up annealing it. Any input would be great.
Reply:If they're the same type manganese as rock crusher wear metal, we built up crusher rolls and cone liners w/ automatic wire feed. The only concern we had was it cooling down too fast in the winter months immediately after we finished it.                              MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I did something similar in the past... But, at first tell me if  those frogs are made of manganese steels or carbon steels?Anyway, we used either:1) alloy 307 for the 1st layer and the rest with alloy FeMn-A or with FeMn-A type alloyed with Cr....or2)alloy 307 for whole hardfacing no matter how many layers we applied.If the parts are made of manganese steel, there are some recomendation:The part must not exceed 250C during weldin. You may keep it in flowing water or you may spill water over hot weld. You should make plan of sequence welding, and weld no more than 40 mm at once, without weaving. You must control temperature of the part and allow it to cool. You may peen the weldments. Also you should remove hardened old material, at least 3 mm on the part. Take care about distortion.
Reply:they are made out of carbon steel with manganese to make them harder to resist wear.
Reply:Is this scrap metal you've acquired to play with, or in-use parts which you need to repair? In use, high manganese steel forms a hard, wear-resistant surface above a tough interior. As stated above, overheating while welding will ruin these properties. Also, not all electrodes will work well with this alloy so good advise depends on what you're wanting to do.
Reply:Manganese steel work hardens.You have to use the proper filler(s) and follow the proper procedures (removing old and damaged material, pre-heat and inter-pass temps, etc) to weld manganese steel.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:no it's not scrap metal. these are used on railroad track switches. over time they develop cracks and have to be repaired. I was thinking about putting a bid in on them. I know this would be a very labor intensive job, but profitable.
Reply:Do they look like these?http://www.harmersteel.com/catalog/5...el_frogs.shtmlRIBBIT!-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:yup that what i'm talking about. those are the frogs i'm looking at.
Reply:Kool!  I don't know jack about how to fix 'em, but wanted to know what you were looking at so I could follow along.    A "google" search on "Welding Railroad Frogs" produced a plethora of information.  It appears there may be some special procedures to be followed, some processes are even patented.  Beyond that regretfully I can't help.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I would expect this kind of work to be heavily regulated, down to detailed procedures and materials to be used for initial installation and especially repairs. I would request as much information as possible from the railroad, starting with the alloy the frogs are made of. This in not the type of job for experimentation.Around here, the main rails are all continuous (thermite welded with no mechanical joints) and I don't know what is done with sidings, etc. I suppose that in the yards, most sections are still bolted so repairs are easier. Would the work on the frogs be done in your shop, or in situ?
Reply:repairs would be done in my shop
Reply:Any info. from the 'client' yet? Just to get you started, you might take a look at data on MG745 and MG750 at this site:http://www.messerwelding.com/I have used their products before, but never on a job for someone else, particularly a "common carrier" subject to rigid standards. Other companies have similar products. As I said, I'm not 'trained' certified or even a commercial welder so can't/won't give detailed advice about how/what to do for this job. You might contact this (Messer) company's technical department if your prospective 'client' doesn't have the details available.