How do you keep your project square?

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Hi All,I'm in the process of making a small welding table (24" x 36") and was wondering how to keep the frame square.  I'm making it out of 2"x2"x1/8" tubing and it's nothing fancy, just butting up the ends, no mitering on the corners.  Last night I was getting started, I tried a couple of different methods, putting one of those magnet 45 degree x 45 degree jobs in the corner, that didn't work so well so I tried using a piece of 2"x3/16" angle iron clamped on the top and bottom.  I clamped it all together, all four pieces and made sure each corner was square with my square.  I tacked all the corners and unclamped it all.  I then used the same process to build the second 24" x 36" frame for the bottom shelf.  When I placed one on top of the other, they were WAY off.  This causes a problem because I was going to weld legs in between the two frames but it will be off and probably not look very nice.  So tonight I'm going to grind off my tack welds and try it all over and wanted to get some input as to the best method.  I tried measuring from corner to corner but when it was all clamped up with the angle iron, I couldn't get a good measurement.Thanks for any help,CraigPS.  I'm basing my table off of this one:  http://www.millerwelds.com/interests...welding-table/
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=23879Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Hi, I usually tack everything together that I want square, then when the structure is somewhat ready, then I finish the welds, that usually keeps everything aligned.GuyGuy_48Welding is an art......Millermatic 252Lincoln SP175PlusLincoln 225 AC/DC
Reply:The link Broccoli posted was a pretty good one. As for me, I think the best way for me is to brace / jig, or tack things close, and then check for fit and square. I will then in the case of what you are saying, make the 2 sections or however many there are fit. This will entail moving, stretching, pushing things straight and square. After that, I set it tight with more tacks. Check it again, and then adjust if I need to. After that, I just weld it up, and I usually have good success with things staying straight.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThe link Broccoli posted was a pretty good one. As for me, I think the best way for me is to brace / jig, or tack things close, and then check for fit and square. I will then in the case of what you are saying, make the 2 sections or however many there are fit. This will entail moving, stretching, pushing things straight and square. After that, I set it tight with more tacks. Check it again, and then adjust if I need to. After that, I just weld it up, and I usually have good success with things staying straight.
Reply:Use your vision. Tack corners, step back and sight across the sides, the ends and the verticals. Your vision will see accurate to within fractions of an inch. Ed's link was full of information.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Clamp all the pieces down to a table and use a lot of tiny tacks. Then clamp the other on top of the first one and tack it with lots of tiny tacks.When you get them tacked up, clamp legs to table, clampframes to legs with clamps and little pieces of angle, clamp other legs on top of frames and tack all together. Check for true and weld out.And yes you need a lot of clamps and yes I have a lot of clamps.
Reply:Keep adding tacks and clamps until it will not move. After a while you will just know.
Reply:I just lay it out and then weld it up, no biggie.  Here's a truss I made last week, in fact. Attached Images
Reply:Wow, that's GREAT stuff, thanks so much for everyones input.  I got it torn down last night so I can start trying out the suggestions here.  I will let you guys know how it comes out.  Thanks again for everyones help .
Reply:Fat Bastard's comments (use Broccoli's link) and Craig in Denver's advice is what I've found to be most useful to me. Especially when the work surface is not flat/level or true.I do'nt go crazy with clamps like I used to anymore. Just check and adjust alignment after each tack. And like everyone sez - small, deep tacks and do'nt rush.Last edited by cassidy; 10-10-2008 at 02:26 AM.
Reply:I use ratchet straps to pull the opposite corners together after tacking tack welding. Mig wire works also.
Reply:Since we're discussing Square and distortion--On lighter gauge stock a little heat applied after the fact can brings things back:This is a table I made from 16g Tubing and sure enough I got distortion when I welded it up so I just used a Mapp Torch to apply some heat to the bottom of the tubing to get it to move back to where it was supposed to beEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge