Current Setting versus Rod Size

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Hello...  I'd like to hear from you good folks on the exact purpose for the higher current settings on welders like my Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC.    Are the higher settings there for larger electrode diameters, deeper penetration, different metals ?  What ???  I was experimenting with my little Clarke 95E, just to see what I could do with it; so I started making welds on pieces of rebar.  I began with 1/16" rods and worked my way up to 1/8" rods.  The rods were 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7018.  I could maintain an arc with all of them; but the 1/8" rods were more difficult to keep burning.  I tried the same thing with my Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC, and had hardly any trouble at all with the current set at DC- 30 Amps.    The reason for my question is that I'd like to eventually weld some sheet metal together.  I understand I should use 6013; but I'm still playing around with, and trying to understand the current settings.  As an aside... while practicing with the Lincoln and 1/8" 7018 rod, the arc could be "stretched" out to about 1/4", and maintained out there.  I could even see between the tip of the rod-core, and the work; but could see no puddle.  I understand most of you folks don't have enough time to be messing around like I'm doing; but I'm interested in knowing if anyone can tell me if there is any purpose, or use, for this type of "Burn".  It WAS an arc, and the rod was being used-up.  I'm wondering if this was similar to "Plasma deposition" because the rebar was being built up from this action.  Thank You !  Ed VA
Reply:I running a long arc, you are introducing air into the weld.  Running a long arc is helping to compensate for the low current setting.As far as the low amperage settings, 30 amps is way too low for 1/8 rods of any denomination.  Start a 75 and work up to 90 on the 7018's or higher.  A cool weld is easy to control but you are not really welding just making piles of pooh. Additionally, low amperage is only good for the thinnest of materials.I assume, that you have had no official training.  You need to get a book and read it through, even the welding manual you can get from Haynes at your local auto parts chain can give you decent insight.As far as welding on rebar,  regular rebar is not to be welded, only weldable rebar designated as weldable can be welded on.And for the thickness of metal, these are the recommended sizes for the given materials and amperage range.  Although with your box, you definitely don't won't to go over 3/16" because it just won't handle it well. ELECTRODE DIAMETER (THICKNESS) AMP RANGE PLATE  1/16" 20 - 40 UP TO 3/16" 3/32" 40 - 125 UP TO 1/4" 1/8 75 - 185 OVER 1/8" 5/32" 105 - 250 OVER 1/4" 3/16" 140 - 305 OVER 3/8" 1/4" 210 - 430 OVER 3/8" 5/16" 275 - 450 OVER 1/2"Last edited by lugweld; 11-05-2008 at 09:41 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Also a good simple rule of thumb is to divide the numerator by the denominator.  1/8 rod = 1 divided by 8 = .125.  125amps is a general starting point for that size rod.  You can work up or down from there once you're familiar with how the rod runs  5/32 rod = 5 divided by 32 = .156.  150amps or thereabouts.  It works pretty good."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:There is also more to output and arc stability than current.  Different components and electrical circuits alter arc characteristics and stability.  There was no puddle, but there was an accumulation.  That accumulation was basically a collection of spatter.  Not enough heat to melt the base metal, and not enough heat to keep the filler in a molten state for very long after deposition.
Reply:Thanks Guys !  Especially for the "Chart".  I guess I might be "Dense"; but if I can butt-weld rebar that I've found in the yard that I can swing onto my anvil without it breaking, I must have gotten lucky and found the right type.  The stuff I actually bought was just the cheapest that the hardware store had.  On top of all this, I just used my Clarke 95E set at top of range which is around 90 Amps with either 6011, or 6013.Thanks Again !  Ed VA  "I'm not wrong... I've just found something else that won't work !"
Reply:Manufactures list all appropriate amp/volt setting for all electrodes produced. Most are available on there websites.
Reply:Hi Lugweld...  No... I have no official welding training of any kind; but I did get a book from the library called "Welder's Handbook" by someone named Richard Finch.  Although it had lots of info, I focused on Arc Welding, and Electrodes.  I think there was a chapter on Metals too which I read.  Great book; but I have too many questions that probably seem "Weird" to you experts & Old Hands.  I'm just a hobbyist who has too much time on his hands after retirement.    I've always wanted to learn how to weld; so when I retired, the first thing I did was buy the best welder I could afford.  I started with the little Clarke 95E, then my Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC.  Because I'm now on my pension, I really can't afford to go out buying all kinds of metal to play around with; so I use what I find available, and that is strong enough to function in an envisioned project of mine.  For this reason, I tend to stick to the rebar on sale at the local hardware store, (Check out my post on Lawn Tractor Beer/Tool Carrier), railroad baseplates that I have found on my land, and T-Posts.  I just kept messing around with all these materials with different rods, and current settings.    I want to try and weld some sheet metal someday soon; so I'm practicing on Tin Cans.  I'm beginning to think that my welds look like crap because the base metal is crap.  Even though I've tried grinding and beveling clean edges on some rebar, I've never been able to get welds like some of you guys have posted here.  Then again... it might just be all your experience.  I probably won't get to live old enough to get as good as you pros; but until I'm down where I can weld by simply shoving my material up the Devil's butt, I'll have to keep practicing with what I can find/afford.  By the way... while practicing with my Lincoln set at 30 Amp DC, and some 1/16" 6011 electrodes, I had one stick really badly.  By the time I broke it free, there was no longer much, if any, flux on it.  Anyway, later on I put it back into my stinger, and it gave me a beautiful arc all the way down to the nub.  I always thought that the electrodes NEEDED flux to make an arc.  Any input on this guys ???  Thanks for all your input.  At the very least, it gives me the confidence to keep asking questions.  So far, I've had no one telling me to go away.  Ed VA"I'm not wrong... I've just found something else that didn't work."Last edited by edv7028; 11-06-2008 at 07:34 AM.
Reply:Metal is expensive to play with, so I understand the issue, but rebar and t-posts are not alloyed or designed to be weldable.  Verly likely the RR iron you find is hardened.But if you really want to weld.  Right now scrap prices have plummeted.  I would (and do) go to the local recycling yard and look for my metal.  It can usually be bought for a scrap + a small premium price.  Or go to a machine shop and purchase their odd and small drops for a scrap price.The other day at the scrap yard, they had some nice 1/2 inch plate that was brand new without a trace of rust that had been water jet cut for parts and huge pieces were left over.As for the electrode without flux, it may have welded but on such poor quality material,  you probably wouldn't be able to tell that the weld was full of pin holes.  But the flux is there to keep the air off the  weld and prevent a still molten puddle from becoming oxidized while it cools.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Thanks Again Lugweld...  I have found some good stuff at the local scrap yard.  One being a 3.0 foot diameter steel plate about 3/4" thick.  I made a table out of it; but because it's in really good shape, I use it more for a measuring surface plate.  Don't get there often; but I know it's a good source.  Thanks for the ideas !  Ed VA"I'm not wrong... I've just found something else that didn't work." Originally Posted by lugweldMetal is expensive to play with, so I understand the issue, but rebar and t-posts are not alloyed or designed to be weldable.  Verly likely the RR iron you find is hardened.But if you really want to weld.  Right now scrap prices have plummeted.  I would (and do) go to the local recycling yard and look for my metal.  It can usually be bought for a scrap + a small premium price.  Or go to a machine shop and purchase their odd and small drops for a scrap price.The other day at the scrap yard, they had some nice 1/2 inch plate that was brand new without a trace of rust that had been water jet cut for parts and huge pieces were left over.As for the electrode without flux, it may have welded but on such poor quality material,  you probably wouldn't be able to tell that the weld was full of pin holes.  But the flux is there to keep the air off the  weld and prevent a still molten puddle from becoming oxidized while it cools.
Reply:edv7028,There is rebar that is weldable. It is ASTM A706 this probable will not mean anything to you, but this type of bar is marked with a W for weldable. Look for the W on any rebar you want to weld. The difficulty with rebar is that it is made from scrap and usually has a very high % of carbon.
Reply:I found this Lincoln chart in my fileshttp://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/wc19s.pdfEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:FWIW:When I went to Broccoli1's link, it was too small to read. But at the top of that window is a % box. I upped it from 30% to 75%. Some already know this.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverFWIW:When I went to Broccoli1's link, it was too small to read. But at the top of that window is a % box. I upped it from 30% to 75%. Some already know this.
Reply:There is rebar that is weldable. It is ASTM A706 this probable will not mean anything to you, but this type of bar is marked with a W for weldable. Look for the W on any rebar you want to weld. The difficulty with rebar is that it is made from scrap and usually has a very high % of carbon.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNaw, we're just gettin' old
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverI'm sure that feature was designed by another 'old guy'.  (Miller Lite)
Reply:All rebar rolled today is weldable, some much easier than other. As was said, the "W" on the bar means it's easily welded with common consumables.Buy the AWS D1.4 welding code for reinforcing steel if you really want to understand the topic.JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCAll rebar rolled today is weldable, some much easier than other. As was said, the "W" on the bar means it's easily welded with common consumables.Buy the AWS D1.4 welding code for reinforcing steel if you really want to understand the topic.JTMcC.
Reply:Thanks Again Guys...  As I've said many times, I just try and weld what is "FREE", or really, really cheap.  I've been welding rebar projects for the last year or so; and haven't had any problems with it.  I have even welded them to Railroad Baseplates with no problem.  I was drilling and tapping 22 holes in my Weld Table which I made out of a Railroad Baseplate; and only found 1 spot which had an impurity too hard to drill through.  I was drilling with Cobalt Bits.  Got the job done though.  Thanks Again !  Ed VA  "I'm not wrong... I've just found something else that doesn't work."