Metal to metal hardfacing

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This is my first post here, I've got a question regarding hardfacing for metal to metal contact.I've got a Cleveland 247HD wheel trencher, that I need to build up the wheel segments and sprockets on.  The sprockets are what actually drive the trenching wheel, by contacting the segments that are all the way around the wheel.  In years past, we always just built them up with 5/32" 7018.  I'm wondering if there would be a better rod, that's still affordable for this practice.  I've ran hardfacing rod before (Stoody stoodite tube borium) I beleive it was called, but was under the impression that it was more for dirt and rock abrasion conditions.Another thing to throw in the mix, I also have a Flux Core machine (300 amp), so wire fed hardfacing is an option now also.  I run mainly .045 E71-T1 with it, welding on backhoe and trackhoe buckets.  Thanks for any suggestions and replies, I'm glad I found this forum, Looks like a lot of good info from some very skilled craftsmen here.
Reply:Here's a pic of the machine I'm talking about:Here's a closer view, the segments I'm talking about are the little things sticking out on the side of the wheel.:
Reply:Boy does that picture bring back memories of walking 15' away from the controls, trying to see through the dirt.  I know the wear areas you are asking about, but don't have any ideas other than what you have been doing.
Reply:7018 (or anything similar) is a lousy build-up or hardfacing material, it's too soft, and tends to mush out under pressure.  Check with these people, not cheap, but have materials very specific to what you need .....   http://www.postle.com/Last edited by mark8310; 05-04-2008 at 09:34 PM.
Reply:I've used Lincoln's  "Wearshield MM" rods in the past on rollers that were metal to metal, and they have always done great.  Sounds like what you would be needing for that job.I know they make them in 1/8" and 5/32".  I think even 3/16" can be purchased.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Can you hard face with MIG?Me!
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!Can you hard face with MIG?
Reply:Originally Posted by TEKMIG is a process, not a specific wire. Yes, you can use that process to hard face but you must use a hard face wire to do it.....
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!Perhaps I put it wrong, do they have hard facing wire like they have hard facing rods?  And if so how is it to run?
Reply:I thought that the outfit I work for was the only place still running a bucket wheel Cleveland. Really neat machine. Anything with 3 transmissions is cool.I don't have any advice for you, but I can say that you can lay down a pile of hardface with a wire feed in very little time.I'll try to look at ours and see what our guys have done to keep it trenching. We do have a parts machine, and I know the wheel has fallen off a few times.
Reply:I've actually got 4 Cleveland's.  2 110's that are older than the hills (like 40's models) that we retrofitted with Deutz diesel engines in the early 80's, the 247HD which we purchased new in '78, and an old 95 that we mainly bought for parts.  We havn't used either of the 110's since the early nineties, but every once in a while we get to use the 247.  Sadly, there's so much crap in the ground anymore around here to cross, we usually just use trackhoes or on smaller stuff backhoes.  But if you have some good digging, nothing in the way, and some long runs, you can't beat the old school bucket wheel trencher as far as productivity.  The building around here is starting to trend more towards the areas that have been prohibitive of building before because of a lot of rock, so we've been renting a big rock trencher more and more.  Really considering purchasing one now, but my god it's a lot of money to invest.
Reply:Is anyone familiar with Lincore33 wire?  I looked on lincoln's site, and see that it's recommended for build-up.  I'm thinking maybe use the Lincore33 on my wire machine to build everything up, then top it off with the Wearshield MM rods.  Or would it be that critical to use such a material for build-up?  Any ideas on how the E71-T1 would work for build-up, then top off with the Wearshield MM?I'm really interested with these products, I'm sure the other manufactures listed are high quality products also, but I know I can get the Lincoln materials here locally, and have never been disappointed with Lincoln products.  I've burned quite a bit of Lincoln 7018, 6010, 6010+ and 7010 over the years.  I've tried some other brands of 7018, and wasn't real impressed with some.  Hobart seems good.  We tried Atom Arc one time, and it was some of the junkiest rod I ever saw.  Might have just been that box, don't really know.  Never tried it again.
Reply:Use a build-up wire or rod, not a welding rod.I am very familiar with bucket-wheel trenchers; one thing you don't want to do is put something harder on the little guide wheels than on the main wheel (with the buckets).  The main wheel oftentimes goes the life of the machine (50-60 years and even longer sometimes), without ever needing to be built up, as long as the small rollers are properly maintained, and aren't made hard enough to wear the big wheel.Best thing to do, is go online, get the phone numbers of the various hardfacing manufacturers, and start calling.  Lincoln, Stoody, Rankin, Postalloy, etc.  If you can explain exactly what you're doing, and what you want to accomplish, they all have very good technical reps that can explain to you exactly what to apply, and how.  Oftentimes the "how" is as important as "what".
Reply:I'll second mark8310's recommendations.  Cally somebody at Stoody or one of the other hardfacing-specific filler-metal suppliers.  All have good technical support staff, who can recommend a specific product and procedure to follow.  If you can dig up(no pun intended) info on the type of steel those parts are made of, you'll be better off as well.  Some hardfacing rods are meant for mild steel, and others are for austenitic manganese steels(which are used in lots of excavation equipment).  some work on either type of steel.  Welding procedures for the two types of steel are very different.  Mild steel is pretty straightforward, but the manganese steels have specific requirements for preheating and interpass temperatures.  Failure to follow the right procedure can result in your hardfacing falling off and/or embrittling of the base metal.Once you get the right hardfacing filler-metal and procedure, I suspect you'll be very happy with the improved durability of the equipment.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Thanks for all the suggestions.  I finally made it into the welding supply this week.  We needed some mig wire for the big machine, a bottle of 75/25 and a new flowmeter for the little mig, I got a new pancake hood to replace the one that got stolen a couple of years ago, and we did some hardfacing research while there.Here's what we came up with, Wearshield BU to build up, then Wearshield MI for the actual hardfacing.The BU is kinda pricey (about $11 a pound), the MI is $37 for 10 pounds.  But If I'm going to take the time to do this, I want to do it right for a change, and have it last for a while.
Reply:Sounds like you found the info you needed there. I was going to mention that you don't want to build up with hard face rods. Hence the name hard "face"or "surface". I have used plain old 7018 or 6010 to build up then hard face over it with good results.  There are many a good machine still operating due to a welder repairing high priced and obsolete parts. Keep 'er runnin! Originally Posted by handtpipelineThanks for all the suggestions.  I finally made it into the welding supply this week.  We needed some mig wire for the big machine, a bottle of 75/25 and a new flowmeter for the little mig, I got a new pancake hood to replace the one that got stolen a couple of years ago, and we did some hardfacing research while there.Here's what we came up with, Wearshield BU to build up, then Wearshield MI for the actual hardfacing.The BU is kinda pricey (about $11 a pound), the MI is $37 for 10 pounds.  But If I'm going to take the time to do this, I want to do it right for a change, and have it last for a while.
Reply:Handtpipeline, we never got an update on this project. What did you finally decide to use? How has it been wearing since then?  BTW, what is the most interesting thing you've ever found while digging??