Think of buying a stick welder

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Im completely new to welding, and thinking of buying this stick welder http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=55195I dont know the pro's and con's of this welder and Im sure you guys can help. I will be using this to fabricate a front bumper/brush guard  and maybe a roof rack for my Jeep Cherokee and the metal I will be using would be no more than 1/4 inch, I am not going to be using this bumper for a recovery point so it doesnt have to be ultra strong. I dont care if the welds look pretty or anything. the main thing is I'm trying to keep this pretty cheap(under 250$)any suggestions/help is appreciatedEdit: oops..  just realized there is a "general welding questions" forum. can a moderator please move this thereLast edited by Stoutamach1; 12-19-2008 at 02:37 AM.
Reply:Welcome to the site Stouta, there are lots of XJ guys here.  So you wanna start welding stuff up for your Cherokee, awesome. But like most people there is a budget concern.The El-Cheapo welders from harbor freight and elsewhere are a hot topic around here.A couple what/ifs here: You said you wanted to build a brush guard/bumper. Are you exploring buying the welder just to save some money and build it yourself? Or is it because you want to build your own unique stuff?If its to save money, have you priced steel for the project? Do you have other tools? A way to cut the steel? You know this machine consumes welding electrodes right?Its not just going to be $125 dollars and then, boom your welding.To me it seems your kinda putting the cart before the horse. You will not be able to just buy this welder and start welding away. There are two problems here, one is that cheap welder, and the other being that you have never welded before.If you want to weld you are going to at the very least need some basic instruction from somebody who knows what they are doing, or a book. In my opinion it would be better if you had a buddy who could weld help you. Stick welding isn't real hard but there are some tricks to it. You said the welds don't have to be pretty or strong, as if this was a function of the welder, and that the function of said welder may suffer due to the price.The welds do have to be strong man, you're gonna hang this thing on the front of your Jeep and drive down the road, huge liability there.Which brings us to the welder. You seemed concerned about the quality of the welds this machine would produce. That is really more the operator than the machine. Assuming that the machine is going to run well and that it does what they say it will, an experienced person could lay absolutely perfect welds with it. And I could take you to work with me and let you use a $6000 welder and you would still lay crappy welds.Not a jab at you man, just trying to prove a point A stick welder for $125 bucks? Hmmm. That would be like buying a 4.5" lift kit with full packs for the back and a slip yoke eliminator for the Cherokee for $15 bucks, would you trust that?I dunno, maybe the thing will work great, but I really doubt it. But before any of that happens you need to learn how to weld, and that machine, in my opinion will totally let you down before you even get started.You can buy a really basic used Lincoln stick welder commonly referred to as "tombstones" because of there shape for a little more than that reconditioned unit at Harbor Freight. It is a proven performer and you can do a lot with it.Sorry for the long-winded explanation, or if I came off as a jerk. Its just, we see this a lot here and we would rather see a guy/gal get off on the right foot. You will learn a lot and probably have fun doing it.I don't know how far I can throw that welder, but thats about as far as I would trust it.
Reply:Well said Burnit. It's not just that easy, but don't let that drag you down. Look around for a better welder and save your self a major headache. Try a pawnshop I'm finding good deals right now.I carry guns because cops are too heavy. .. ..-.   -.-- --- ..-   - .... .. -. -.-   .... .- .-. -..   . -. --- ..- --. ....   -.-- --- ..-   -.-. .- -.   ..-. .. --. ..- .-. .   .- -. -.-- - .... .. -. --.   --- ..- -
Reply:I agree with Burnit,on a tight budget, I would lean towards craigslist, I have to admit it took me some patience, even went as far as trolling at the LWS with my checkbook in my pocket, but instead of spending almost $600 on the machine I wanted, I found a 3 year old model a half hour from my house and picked it up for $350 with 100' of extra lead.  the deals are out there.  btw its a miller thunderbolt xl ac/dc, great little machine.  Remember, you get what you pay for.- If you can jump across it you can weld it!  - anonymous old boilermaker
Reply:I agree also. Altho i do have the little Hf 80 amp inverter and its not bad at all. I might of burned about 6 pounds of rod so far and its been perfect. I plan to try some tigging with it later on too. Its paid for its self.
Reply:After reading Capt. Daves post about the pawnshop (good idea) I thought of Craigslist but Kangi beat me to it.People are broke right now and you can really find some smokin deals on Craigslist.
Reply:Awesome,  well said Burnit, all of the info is appreciated. I'll have to do some searching for some better stuff.
Reply:Everything burnit said is true. You can buy a new Lincoln ac225 for around 250 bucks and I have seen them as low as 50 used. I've used those things that are 50 years old and they just keep working and will handle most anything you can come up with. In fact it will handle anything with sticks the 500 amp Hobart or 5000 dollar XMT350s (with sticks) I use at work will. You just might have to use more and smaller electrodes, but it will handle 5/32 7018 all day long. You wouldn't believe all of the stuff that has been built with those things. The best advice so far has been get some instruction as what you want to do could result in serious injury or death to you or someone else should it fail.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:what do y'all think about this one?http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/959063108.html
Reply:Originally Posted by Stoutamach1what do y'all think about this one?http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/959063108.html
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55That's a decent deal and a nice little welder BUT it's an AC only unit.  A better choice is the AC/DC version that looks very similar and has an AC/DC+/DC- selector switch in addition to the output amp selector.  May cost you a little more though.  Just my $.02.
Reply:Being able to select from AC / DC+ / DC- allows greater electrode selection and each provides different welding characteristics for various desired results and required welding positions.All the more reason to invest in one of those instructional books that Burnit mentioned earlier.As for the craigslist welder, yes, you can just plug it in and weld providing you have the proper 230 volt 50 amp circuit and outlet.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Something can be said about getting a used welder (or using your buddy's welder if he will let you) & burning some rod/wire.I learned at about 13 years old on the farm.  We had a welder that you had to plug the leads in to the amps you wanted.  It was green & no numbers were listed, only - + to know which one was your ground lead.  There was also a setting we could use 1/4" rods to cut steel with.  I think that's called gouging?I welded a bunch of stuff together, then it promptly broke.  When I finally laid down a perfect bead (by mistake I think) I remember the sound & how long the arc was (sizzle & short).  Fast forward a few years, I have my own wire welder & use flux core wire (because I'm too cheap to buy the gas) & still hunt for that sizzle/arc length from time to time.  If you have the chance to watch over the shoulder of an experienced welder, keep not just your eyes open, but your ears too.  You will be able to recognize that perfect sizzle sound when you hear it.  Then remember the type of metal being welded, the settings on the machine.  Best thing to do is write it down too.Burnit said it best though........... keep reading, listen to the words of wisdom here & get a good book on welding.  Once you have all that mastered, get a welder (doesn't matter what kind, it's the operator that makes the perfect bead) & get to practicing.  Oh, plan on spending a couple hundred bucks a month in electricity/rods/wire until you get good.BTW, welcome to a new addiction.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Thanks for all the great info guys, Cant wait to start welding!
Reply:Don't limit you search to an AC-225. I have an old Montgomery Wards powercraft 230 that I Got at a pawnshop 20 years ago. It's probably well over 30 years old Oil the fan evrry few year and it welds as good as new. Look for miller thunderbolts,Craftsman or there is even some decent century units as well as others. Basically you're looking for a 230 volt transformer machine.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:You said in your 1st post Im completely new to welding, and thinking of buying this stick welder http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=55195I dont know the pro's and con's of this welder and Im sure you guys can help. I will be using this to fabricate a front bumper/brush guard and maybe a roof rack for my Jeep Cherokee and the metal I will be using would be no more than 1/4 inch, I am not going to be using this bumper for a recovery point so it doesnt have to be ultra strong. I dont care if the welds look pretty or anything. the main thing is I'm trying to keep this pretty cheap(under 250$)any suggestions/help is appreciatedEdit: oops.. just realized there is a "general welding questions" forum. can a moderator please move this there  The rest of the folks here had it right with their advice but I might add to the liability end of this. I would really try my first welds on the bumper of my Jeep. If you do and lets say the bumper cracks the welds and falls off damaging another vehicle or bystander you could and most likely be held liable. For safety sake I would have the bumper done by a shop an experience welder. The overall cost for letting a shop do it will be far cheaper than the consequences. Plus the added time you have will allow you to look for a good used stick welder and some metal to have fun on.Add on To reduce costs what you could do if you have the tools  and knowledge is fabricate the bumper and roof rack and bring them to the shop. This would greatly reduce the cost of the project. Plus while at the welding shop I would watch what the welder does and uses on your bumper and rack. Armed with the experience you gain from watching will give you a better understanding of what equipment and materials you will need for future projects.Good Luck and Happy Holidays,TomLast edited by specter; 12-20-2008 at 09:57 AM.Reason: AddonCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.