1/4" to 16 Ga. SMAW

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I have a job that I have to weld a 1/4" plate to 16 Ga. steel stud (not galvanized but the old style truss studs from approx. the 50's).  I am using 7018 because it is a hospital and the specs for the job clearly state that all welding to be done is to be with 7018.  I am using 7018 Excalibur MR 1/8 with a Miller Dynasty 200 DX and the bead is to be 1/8".   I have to follow the WPS and I will have a CWI present during the welding and this is why I am using 1/8 rod.  The WPS is for A120 +/- 10% at 20V.  It is no surprise that the rod blows right through the 16 Ga.  I have tried to turn down the heat but have no luck.  If I burn with this size rod I burn right through the 16 Ga.I didn't make the first WPS but am giong to resubmit a NEW one.  I don't normally fuse so thin to so thick (not really that thick or thin but a vast difference in thickness).  I like the way the Excalibur rod burns very much and would like to use it. Also it has to be a 7018, I can't change that.  Should I submit a WPS to use 3/32" rod and if so do I need to turn down the heat heavily (how many Amps). By the  way the weld is a fillet weld and the position is 2G.
Reply:I would use 3/32 7018 at 80 - 85 amps.  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Try an AC 7018.  You can use lower heat settings.  And it can be welded on AC.  It maintains a stable arc at a much lower setting.  But it is still classified as a 7018.  You might try Hobarts new 418. It welds smoother than any 7018 and is classified as a 7018.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:LugweldI did try 7018 with the AC setting and it still seems to be "IFFY".  I have to have an OSHPD inspecter and a CWI present and I am just not liking using the 1/8 rod on 16 Ga.  I don't want to have two high priced inspecters standing around as I fix burn throughs (and the length of these welds are only 1/2" long so the blowouts are the entire weld area of the 16 Ga.)  I am actually leaning towards the 3/32 cause I can go as low as 70-110a (I looked this up).  Also I have used 7018AC before and I am kinda in the school of DC rods are better if you have the choice.  I didn't like the welds so much.  The beads look rough not smooth.
Reply:If the beads on the AC 7018 looked rough then something was wrong or it was the brand of rods.  It usually has a gun blue look to it and very polished.   I would try HOBART.  The AC version welds great on DCEPAgain,  try the Hobart 418's,they are dcep too.  They are 7018's but are exceptionally easy to start and to maintain arc stability.Maybe the dynasty isn't right for that job.  I bet an old copper wound unit would do it.Last edited by lugweld; 11-20-2008 at 11:24 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:i thought a rule of thumb was to not use an electrode with a diameter bigger than the thickness of material being welded
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldIf the beads on the AC 7018 looked rough then something was wrong or it was the brand of rods.  It usually has a gun blue look to it and very polished.   I would try HOBART.  The AC version welds great on DCEPAgain,  try the Hobart 418's,they are dcep too.  They are 7018's but are exceptionally easy to start and to maintain arc stability.Maybe the dynasty isn't right for that job.  I bet an old copper wound unit would do it.
Reply:Wow   I would try and write up another WPS if possible.   I dont think I could do it, at least not well.  Good luck. let us know how it turns out. weld it like you own it
Reply:As David said, don't blame the rod or the machine. It is the size and type of rod. If you could drop down to 3/16" 7018 it would make a world of difference but still not easy on 16 gauge metal.Who wrote the procedure? That is your biggest problem.
Reply:Oldtimer,The structural engineer wrote the procedure.  He can't answer any of my RFI's in a timely manner but this one he pulled out of his magic hat.
Reply:[QUOTE=LomitaWelder;228427] The WPS is for A120 +/- 10% at 20V.  It is no surprise that the rod blows right through the 16 Ga.  I have tried to turn down the heat but have no luck.  If I burn with this size rod I burn right through the 16 Ga.I am not sure of the welding position you have to accommodate but would a copper chill bar or carbon flat be an option.
Reply:Here is the update to.  I turned in a WPS to do this weld with .030 Flux core.  I was rejected by the engineer because he swore the only approved method other than SMAW is SAW.  I showed him a copy of where in d1.3 FCAW is acceptable.  We argued for days about this.  (Keep in mind that this is an old pencil stud in a wall of an old hospital in use.)  I had to educate him by showing him a picture of a SAW machine and explain that I would have to remove the wall and take it to the machine (even then I believe SAW would not work because of the awkward positions to be welded).He got mad because I was being smart.  He then told me that I could get a compact machine to do the procedure.  The room the welding was to take place in is a small closet.  I then showed him that in the d1.1 book it gives the contracter the option to choose the method (SMAW, FCAW, SAW, SMAW) the contracter deams most cost efective as long as the desired result is achieved (this is not a direct quote of the books).  His answer to that was, he gave me a list of SAW filler metal for me to choose from.  Anyway this went back and forth.  Keep in mind this guy works for a engineering company and he is the "Metal Specialist" for his company he keeps telling me.  Also he made sure to tell me many times he "went to school to learn this and is not just some amateur".   I responded finally with "well it sure was a waste of time and money cause your an idiot and schooling didn't fix the fact".  I don't like when someone throws out their college credentials and assumes I will get intimidated.  In this case I felt he was trying to insult me and insinuate that he was better than me.By this time I furious.  I told the Project Manager to get another welder stupid enough to put up with this bull.  I knew this would settle the issue ( I had to go through an extensive background check to do work on the premises so they could not just go an pick up a welder).  The PM immediately got on Speaker Phone with the Head Structural Engineer and the jack@ss I was dealing with and chewed them a new hole.  Ten minutes later I received MY WPS back "accepted and make changes noted".  The changes noted were the copies of the d1.3 and d1.1 pages I sent to him (as if he found the answer and was enlightening me).  So I did the weld with FCAW and it took less than 2 hours to set up, weld, and pack up my gear.By the way these are our tax dollars hard at work.  This is a government job and what should have been one day of labor if I milked it, took a week and a half.  And we were all getting payed by the hour because it was an extra and we were getting "time and material" pay.  Yes I did charge for my time arguing because I was right!  And I aint never done did no deegree at no kollidge neever.
Reply:Here's what I do when welding thick to thin.  Concentrate most of the arc on the heavier piece and CLOSELY watch the puddle so it "flows" to the thin section.  With practice, you'll become quite proficient at it.  Been doing it for years.It also helps to use a gold plated filter lens.  No green glare, and arc/puddle visibility is incredible.P.S. I have little love for so called "Engineers".
Reply:Heck,I joined the Army to be an engineer.  After 22yrs, they never once gave me a train to run.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Pawelder,I have loads of respect for engineers.  What I didn't respect was the fact that because this guy was an engineer he was insinuating that makes him almighty know it all.  I work with plenty of engineers and 95% of them are sharp.  This guy was in the 5% margin.
Reply:The 1/4 to 16ga.(.074) would be easy with GMAW, instead of  SMAW.Wish i could see the weldment. Maybe spot welding would be more appropriate.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:That weld would have been a piece of cake with a 3/32 6010. QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS