Going nuts welding nuts

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Okay, I've done an extensive search for this but have been unable to come up with any posts that addresses this directly.I'm trying to create a "leg standoff" for my welding cart consisting of a 5/8" nut welded to a 1/4" thick plate with a carriage bolt for the leg.  I'm using a tombstone stick welder with 6013 at 60A and 75A.  The problem I am having is in trying to weld the nut onto the plate.  The nut is so thin that I can't really run a fillet "bead", I merely have to tack it against the plate (see photo).  BUT - I am getting slag inclusions in the red area in the illustration.  If I up the amperage, I destroy the nut. If I reduce it, I don't get good penetration on the plate, and the slag region in the fillet gets larger.  How to get metal through the entire fillet? There has got to be someone who has done this before - what am I doing wrong?? Attached Images
Reply:Make something like this.  Weld it to your stock.  Then fillet your nut to this.  That way you can hit all sides of the nut if you wanted to. Attached Images
Reply:I've seen guys use a running thread nut, (coupling nut)which is longer and has more surface area to weld to.  Then they weld that to some flat stock, which is welded perpendicular and vertical to the leg.  Not a cad person, or I could give you a picture, sorry
Reply:I don't believe that's gonna work.  You will have little strength in the way you're figuring on doing it.I'm afraid you have to bite the bullet, and drill a hole thru flat plate, weld the nut flat to the plate above/below the hole.  See pic6013 does not work well with case hardened metal, ie. the nut.  7018 will do better.  Start your puddle away from the nut and flow it into the nut.PUT A BOLT IN THE NUT WHILE YOUR WELDING OR THE NUT WILL DISTORT SO BAD THAT YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET A BOLT IN IT AGAINSpray a release agent on the threads.  Stuff you use for Flux Core welding.  Anti spatter... it keeps the threads from gettin messed up with the spatter from your weld, so you can get it out again Attached ImagesLast edited by farmersamm; 05-03-2009 at 10:06 PM.Reason: anti spatter"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The consensus seems to be to drill a hole in some stock and flat weld the net to it - but I'm using bedframe angle iron and this stuff is harder than a groom on honeymoon night...More worrysome to me is why I am getting slag in the ridges of my fillet, trapped by the bead?? Farmersamm: you indicate "pushing the puddle towards the nut" - I thought this was a no-no with 6013 - causes slag entrapment??  Thanks again for all your help - my flat beads are looking a LOT better, now my fillets are sucking
Reply:I was thinking of something like this, so you have more surface area.  Hope that helps Attached Images
Reply:By flowing I mean washing.  The innitial arc is struck maybe a rods length from the nut (1/8"), or you can actually try to strike it in the angle formed by nut and plate(I usually don't favor this with stick).The idea is to get a hot puddle going, and let it wash up on the shoulder of the nut.  You really don't want to point the rod directly at the nut, except to use the force of the arc to push the metal up on the shoulder(it's a breif flick of the wrist, just enough to get the metal up there).  There will be too much heat on the shoulder of the nut, and you'll melt it, or distort it in a big way.  If the puddle is good and hot, there will be good fusion and penetrationIf you have AC only, and don't want to invest in 7018AC, then I've found that 7014 will do a great job too.  7014 will last without hermetic sealing.  You don't have to use it up as soon as you open the container.  It has a long shelf life if kept reasonably dry.It's hard to explain over the net.  I hope it's somewhat clear"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by sparkyman65I was thinking of something like this, so you have more surface area.  Hope that helps
Reply:I really think you're gonna need 7018 or 7014 for the bedframe.  Maybe not.  Only time I ever welded bedframe was with flux core 70k tensile strength.  I think bedframes are tempered, and respond differently to anything like 6013Somebody might know.Duane does a lot with bedframes, so does Brocolli1"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I hate these doggone computers.  It's basically a fillet with less time burning into the vertical surface.  Don't overheat the shoulder of the nut  I just don' t know how to explain it with words"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Your %$%$#@! puddle is always touching the flat, and the shoulder of the nut, but you are focusing the bulk of the heat on the flat, and occassionally focusing the heat on the nut.I'M GOIN' DOWN THE CRAPPER HERE.  I JUST CAN'T EXPLAIN IT!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hey samm!Ain't it a biatch when you can;t just grab a hold of someone and say, "Here like this"the internet is nice, but it leaves a lot to be desired when all you have is written words.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:I always wondered how Sam's post count got so high.  I think I'm starting to figure it out.
Reply:Just break#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:them up!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Sorry samm, couldn't help myself! #1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Any time I have welded bedframe angle 7018 or MIG was a necessity.  Tried 6013, 7014, flux-core and 6011 but most of the welds could be heard going "ping ping" while I was putting things away and upon investigation I found lots of cracked welds.  Low Hydrogen works better for me.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:If the nuts are galvanized (which many are), that has to come off.  6013 IS NOT the rod of choice for the job.  As Samm says, use 7018.  I will add, try 6011- 3/32" rod.  It will burn through any coating you fail to remove.  Running a bolt in the threads is also advisable (Samm mentioned this).For best strength, do as someone else suggested, weld a nut, all around on a flat stock, then weld the flat stock on your cart.Good Luck.
Reply:Hey Sonic,Why don't you take a short piece of 1" angle mild steel, drill and tap one side for your threaded rod. Then fillet weld the other side to your leg? That is easy and will be much stronger. Then use a nut for a jam nut once you get it all level. Works for me on my welding table and cut off saw legs.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Here's a picture of what I've done in the past to put leveling feed on stands.  This is a fishtank stand, and the tank weighs about 400 lbs.Weld the steel square to the bottom of the angle iron, and tack weld the nut overtop a hole in the steel square.  I use Permatex anti-seize compound on the bolts to keep them from getting stuck when the nut is welded on.  It smokes when the weld is made, but I've never had a bolt get stuck in the welded nut.  I'm occasionally lazy about grinding off the galvanization on the nuts.  It makes welding them a pain, and you have to worry about the zinc fumes if you're in a space with poor ventilation. Attached ImagesBenson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Or don't weld it at all!Make a plate as suggested with a hole to run a bolt through, put a nut on it on both top and bottom, use the bottom nut to level it and the top nut to secure it!this way you wouldn't have to worry about deforming it or fumes, and if the threads on either the bolt or nut ever get damaged, it makes it easy to replace them.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Usually,  a Mig handles this fairly easily.   Start on the base metal and as Samm said, gently sweep the arc up to the base of the nut (wash) and let a small puddle form and then quickly wash the arc back to the base.  BTW be sure the nut is clamped or it will pull out of kilter.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:You guys are awesome.  Thanks for all the suggestions - there's got to be a winner there somewhere! Gonna try to purchasing some 3/8" x 16 coupling nuts so I don't have to drill a hold into this bedframe stock.  The 6013 seems to be holding up fine thus far, but time will tell.Oh, and farmersaam, I think I got what you're saying
Reply:If you happen to have a source for them, the old style square nuts are by far better, welding however which way, than standard hex nuts..