Need Ideas for new shop

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Ok, here's the scenario 1.  Non-profit corporation to enhance the education of welding students at the local college,2.  Need to set up work area for the students to work in,3.  Students will work for 6 months during last portion of welding education,4.  Welding instructors will be hired to be inspectors of work performed,5.  All projects will be sold to businesses that 'partner up' with us,6.  Need recommendations of essential tools (power, welding, machining, benches, space)I'm looking to expand on the education of the welding students by putting them into a light manufacturing environment.  Nothing structural, or where bad welds could cause someone to loose their life (like trailers/truck frames/steel buildings) without appropriate training.  I'm hoping that the students would be able to learn at this shop & gain college credits that would be applied toward their educational credits.  As I'm a nurse, have learned a lot here on Welding Web, but I really miss creating things whether it's wood, steel or something that's a combination of the two.  I have people that can run the day to day operation & pay them a reasonable salary.  I'm looking for recommendations from people that have their own shop & would be willing to share some ideas for a new start up.  I'm also hoping to keep initial expenses to about $10-20k for equipment & supplies.I know I will need a stick welder, probably AC/DC up to 250 amps, MIG welder up to 250 amps, grinders (portable & bench), saws to cut steel, Plasma (but what size?), O/A, Hydraulic press, welding benches & enough clamps to make what ever the product will be.  I'm also thinking to start off around 5000-8000 foot warehouse with 3 phase power.  To make this work, I have been in contact with other fab shops to make individual parts they use frequently & resellers of products they use frequently.  Limited runs (i.e. reseller needs 5000 parts, we would provide 500 & allow for rejection of part when delivered) will be applied to this.I'm not looking to create a new manufacturing facility, but work in partnership with the local college, other non-profit's, government entities that need some fabrication and parts resellers that would provide an outlet for specific products.Another thing I have in mind is we have a new oil refinery that's going to be built here in the next few years (east of Welton AZ) & will be needing pipe, pipe with flanges, ell's & such.  As this is a public utility going in, I'm hoping we could provide some parts for it also.  We also have a lot of agriculture going on here, where we may be able to do some equipment modification/repair. At this time, it will all be shop work, nothing mobile is planned yet.  If this works out as I plan, I'm hoping we will graduate students fully prepared to work in either a fab shop, production environment or even to strike out on their own.  As the information I'm looking for is for initial set up of the shop, I'm trying to not overspend the budget for equipment and make it pay for itself with re-investment of any profits toward more equipment/shop space or expanding the program.Anyone can post advice, but specifically I'm looking for the advise from shop oriented workers/owners.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I personally like the Miller xmt series welders. They will do all the processes except Hi Frequency. They are single or 3 phase and 220 or 440. They automatically adjust. They where about 4k new when they first came out, but have seen them pretty cheap on ebay lately. THe model I used was xmt-304. Hope this works out for you.Chuck
Reply:Which would be cheaper to run?  A 3 phase 220V or a 440V?  I don't know much about electrics, but willing to learn a bit more.I figure about 3 welders running at one time (on dedicated circuits), maybe a chop saw of some type & plasma or O/A.  I know I'm going to need a lot of amps, but other than upgrading from a 50A service to 200A service, I have no idea what is involved.  I'm not going to do the work, but will need to know enough so I don't get bids way out of whack.  Or if I can rent the space, maybe have the owner upgrade, but have the info for them to get bids.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:440v  3 ph would be cheaper than 220v 3 ph. 3 ph equipment will generally hold up better over time. If the budget gets tight, I think good used 3 ph eqpt would be easier to find . Maybe some large fab shop is upgrading and would be willing to donate to your school. Might be more valuable as a tax write off than a tradein.    And I would definitely have O/A setups along w/ the plasma cutter. Plas is great but it can't do everything a torch can.                   Just some thoughts,                                                MikeLast edited by mla2ofus; 08-11-2009 at 10:53 PM.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I have to wait to see what the shop will be wired for, but this gives me information I need.  Thank you very much for the info, I'll put it to good use.Plans are to contract with public utilities, other local governmental agencies that may need specific products.  We have agreements with the local college & housing authority to deliver products like fencing panels, cages for A/C units, security fences for Water Dept wells & other companies that install pool enclosures.  We are not trying to compete with other local fab/fencing companies, but looking to give the student a good learning experience & allow them the time to solve the many issues involved with manufacturing.Every little bit helps, so keep it coming.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:What you could do for some equipment and overhead costs is.Advertise what you are doing and ask for donations of money and or equipment, go around to the manufacturing facilities and shops, canvas your area, being a non profit organization, the donations can be written off on their taxes.Check with your local Chamber of commerce,  there might be other non profit organizations in your area that can help with donations and funding as well!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!