Question about TIG aluminum

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I been welding for a few years but the first two was almost all stainless.I find myself doing alot more aluminum and here is the problem I seem to run into.When I weld I tend to have the tungsten very close to the puddle sometime it makes it hard for aluminum cause it wants to get contaminated but when I back the tungsten away it seems to make the puddle larger then I care for.The tugsten I use on aluminum is pure 3/32nd tell me your [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept
Reply:1-what machine are you using?2-what thicknesses are you welding? What alloys?3-the pure tungsten-balled doesn't focus the arc. Sharpened thoriated or ceriated will helpfocus the arc, regardless of the machine (transformer or inverter)Blackbird
Reply:The thickness changes depending on the project anything from .065 to 1/8.The machine is a miller syncrowave 250 watercooled. I used the Thoriated before never tried the Ceriated though?I had been told that pure was always the way to go with Aluminum.I wondered if a different size tungsten could change [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept
Reply:Ceriated is what my training book recommends for aluminium.
Reply:Try 1.5% Lanthanated tungsten sharpened or you can use 2% Thoiated sharpened.  The lanthanated tungsten is similar to throiated in that the tungsten will ball as the amperage is increased but will generally stay smaller than a full electrode diameter ball. You may have to adjust the stick out from the cup as it balls but it will give you a more focused arc particularly at low amperages.  With 2% and AC you will tend to get a thorium spike on the end and the ball and the ball will soon deteriorate, you will still be able to weld just fine it just gets all funky shaped, it is said that some tungsten spitting/tungsten inclusions will occur too.  I’m not sure about the controls on the on the 250 but if you can set the AC balance more toward the DCEN/ penetration side the will help in making a smaller weld.  Expect to see weld that are larger than you are accustomed to seeing on stainless, just the nature of the beast with aluminum unless you have a variable AC frequency inverter.Last edited by Eyesolator; 12-17-2009 at 08:38 AM.
Reply:I personally prefer lanthinated (seems to resist contamination better), but ceriated works well too. Like the guys said, sharpen the tungsten to a point, it will create a small balled tip on it's own when you start welding. Pulling your torch back further from the work surface lengthens the arc which generates more heat & makes it harder for the arc to stay focused, that is why the puddle widens."SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:Some good advice above.Thoriated does tend to form a split in the ball which defocuses the arc, it can be cleared up by re-balling on DCEP, but Lanthanated is probably the best choice.See the "Tungsten Guidebook" at Diamond Ground Products.http://www.diamondground.com/downloads.htmlThere is no reason to ever us pure tungsten.As papabear says, the longer arc does generate more heat since the arc voltage increases with arc length, and the arc heat measured in watts = amps x volts.  But the problem is that the diameter of the arc at the workpiece increases very rapidly as arc length is increased, so the energy density of the arc becomes very wide, diffuse, and inefficient.
Reply:I use an inverter mostly but I do notice my 2% thoriated ends up splitting and spitting after a while.  It's been something I just live with and re-dress it when it happens.  Thoriated is the only kind of tungsten I've ever used on either of my machines (TA185 and Dialarc HF), since I have a whole tool box drawer full of it in different sizes that I got for free from my old job.  I probly have several years' supply of it here.  Despite that cost savings of using what I already have, I'm still thinking to try some lanthanated with the TA and see what happens.  I notice it comes in different percentages so not sure which percent would be good for either machine.  If it works good, maybe I'll just use the lanthanated for aluminum and save the the thoriated for steel and stainless.Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-17-2009 at 11:37 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Despite that cost savings of using what I already have, I'm still thinking to try some lanthanated with the TA and see what happens.  I notice it comes in different percentages so not sure which percent would be good for either machine.  If it works good, maybe I'll just use the lanthanated for aluminum and save the the thoriated for steel and stainless.
Reply:Pure tungsten on alum. is outdated, in-efficient, etc.If the point is blowing apart--splitting, a larger size electrode is neededfor the power being used.Below is link and title of thread I posted on the efficacy of 2%--pictures tell the story, of a not-pretty, but functional repair.15 minutes--arc ON.On this machine setup, there's no horrible splitting,just a blended melt ball on the end of that sharp point.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=23430 AC Tig-Sharp Point-2% Thoriated-before & after pics Since then.....I've been switching to ceriated from the thoriatedfor aluminum AC--it holds a better point with less melt exhibited.Last edited by dave powelson; 12-17-2009 at 02:46 PM.Reason: additionBlackbird
Reply:I most typically use 1/8" tungstens.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Wow thanks for all the info didnt think I was gonna get so many answers.I have used the Thoriated on Aluminum before so maybe I can give the Lanthanated a shot you think I should try 1/8 also or stick with the 3/32 .I had been told when I was using the Thoriated that pure was the way to go on Aluminum but I guess thats an outdated [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept
Reply:I mostly use 3/32" w/lanthinated, it holds up really well. I don't think you'll need 1/8" unless your welding some thick stuff. I haven't over-heated one yet (except the time I forgot to turn on the gas - that only took a fraction of a second!).
Reply:If 1/8" material is the heaviest your welding, you definitely don't need 1/8" tungsten.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33I use an inverter mostly but I do notice my 2% thoriated ends up splitting and spitting after a while.  It's been something I just live with and re-dress it when it happens.  Thoriated is the only kind of tungsten I've ever used on either of my machines (TA185 and Dialarc HF), since I have a whole tool box drawer full of it in different sizes that I got for free from my old job.  I probly have several years' supply of it here.  Despite that cost savings of using what I already have, I'm still thinking to try some lanthanated with the TA and see what happens.  I notice it comes in different percentages so not sure which percent would be good for either machine.  If it works good, maybe I'll just use the lanthanated for aluminum and save the the thoriated for steel and stainless.
Reply:Been a while since I posted again just wanted to say thanks for all the advice.I got some of the 1.5% Lanthanated and must say I like it alot.A million times better then Pure and alot more durable then 2% Thoriated.The Lanthanated balls up but not to much even at high amps it's really nice.I think I'm gonna try the Ceriated to just to compare I turned my gas down also I think that may have [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept
Reply:Yeah I got my 1.5% lan in and love it as well.If you try the cer deff let us know how you like it.Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:If you like the 1.5 % lanthanated, try the 2%.  You'll REALLY like that.It's what I use for AC on both the Sync 250 and the Dynasty.Guess it's just old school, but I still use the 2% Thoriated on mild and SS.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIIf you like the 1.5 % lanthanated, try the 2%.  You'll REALLY like that.It's what I use for AC on both the Sync 250 and the Dynasty.Guess it's just old school, but I still use the 2% Thoriated on mild and SS.
Reply:Originally Posted by StreetorstripConceptBeen a while since I posted again just wanted to say thanks for all the advice.I got some of the 1.5% Lanthanated and must say I like it alot.A million times better then Pure and alot more durable then 2% Thoriated.The Lanthanated balls up but not to much even at high amps it's really nice.I think I'm gonna try the Ceriated to just to compare I turned my gas down also I think that may have helped.
Reply:Alway have used a gas lens never anything [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept
Reply:I need to try a lens. is it like cups? Should I get different sizes or is there a good single choice.I don't generally do anything over 3/8 and rarely even over 1/4".Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:There still is a cup the gas lens goes on the torch and the cup goes on the gas lens.What size gas lens you use is based on what size Tungsten you use.I use a 3/32nd standard size gas len for a lot of stuff and lately I tried what they call a large gas len for even more gas coverage.I saw on arczone.com they have something new or at least new to me called gas saver lenses and the cup you use with them is glass,it looks interesting so I might give it a [email protected]://streetorstripconcept.com/index.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/streetorstripconcepthttp://instagram.com/streetorstripconcept