Joining local 123 pipefitters,

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Well it's been a while since my last visit and It looks like I may make into to class sometime in the next 30-60 days I hope!Really looking forward to starting my new career since I've been laid off so long and the recent delivery of my new baby Girl.I'm 43 years young and can't wait to tackle the training and give 110% to be the best I can be.I hope you guys and gals have some good pointers to give me before I start, I have no welding experience at all, and my old career was in utilitys, cable splicer to be exact.They sent me a list of tools and equipment to show up with and really don't know what to buy as far as a hood, I do value my great eyesight and would like to keep it that way.should I buy a jacket or sleeves? you folks give me some input.Also I'm brushing up on my math skills as we speak so I'm not behind the curve on that, any suggestions here would be helpfull as far as what do pipefitters or welding in general use the most in (math).Since I have a while to wait, I would like to read up on welding in general where I at least under stand the lingo... any good reading matterial out there? hopefully up to date stuff.Thanks to all and have a great 2010.Guy.    Last edited by BWdiver; 02-05-2010 at 07:21 PM.
Reply:I'm a 4th period Fitter Apprentice here in Atlanta @ UA LU72. Get a good set of leathers and I'd personally recommend starting with a good quality auto hood. If the auto's seem too expensive, get a fixed shade that has a flip up feature for grinding. I found it easier to learn stick-welding with TIG gloves but that may be a no-no in your school. There are far more experienced people on here that will hopefully chime in. Good luck, sounds like you have a great attitude going in and that's half the battle.
Reply:I have to start to send out applications to my locals. I graduate from the program I'm in on April 16th and it scares me to death that I'm in NJ. So far the only jobs I've seen that aren't crap retail are pulling a trigger for 12 an hour. Better than I'm making now being unemployed, but I would rather something a bit more challenging.The world is amazing when you are slightly strange.
Reply:To Sinister, I wish you good luck first off. and the reason for my choice of training thru a UA Pipefitters apprenticeship program is one of quality and real world training.and all the certs you have to meet to continue in the program. The other aspect I looked at was the down time when theres no work in the hall, I could be confident in my training to go out on my own if need be and provide that way for my family.I will always be looking at learning more, I see that Lincoln (welders) have a school of advance teaching for different types of substraites I guesse it called, like, tigging race cars and all that goes with that and on and on.When I start this I'm in it for the long haul and will pour all I have got to be successfull. it's that simple.Last edited by BWdiver; 02-05-2010 at 10:19 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by regularfellaI'm a 4th period Fitter Apprentice here in Atlanta @ UA LU72. Get a good set of leathers and I'd personally recommend starting with a good quality auto hood. If the auto's seem too expensive, get a fixed shade that has a flip up feature for grinding. I found it easier to learn stick-welding with TIG gloves but that may be a no-no in your school. There are far more experienced people on here that will hopefully chime in. Good luck, sounds like you have a great attitude going in and that's half the battle.
Reply:Talk to some of your family, friends, neighbors or union instructors about the type of hood to buy.  It really depends on the work you're going to do and your eyesight.  Work in the field, up in pipe racks or at the top of a ladder is generally a crummy place for an autodarkening hood, in my opinion.  It's easy to drop your hood and autos don't survive falls from heights.  Watching an expensive hood crash to the ground is a guaranteed way to ruin your day.A good old fashioned $30 hood isn't such a great loss, and likely will survive the incident.I found auto darkening hoods to be annoying around the strobe lights on scissors lifts and fork lifts .  You're always fiddling with the helmet's settings so the strobes don't cause the lense to flicker.Autos tend to be heavier, and if you're wearing one that's attached to a hardhat, it can tug the hard hat off your head when you flip it shut.  This gets old after the 50th repetition...OK, that's the down sides to autos, I think.The up side is they're very convienent if you're working a fab shop.  You can grind, pickup filler metal, and do most everything else you need to without moving your hood.  This makes you faster, and saves wear and tear on your neck.I find myself growing more far sighted as I get older, and I've noticed that TIG welding is much easier with an auto hood.  I can always see the TIG electrode and filler metal rod.  And unconsciously I keep my head at the right distance from the work so that everything is sharp and clear.  With a fixed shade hood, my head tends to wander when I flip the hood down, and when I strike an arc sometimes everything is blurry until I get my head at the right distance from the work again.  This can affect the quality of my work.  Welding on thin material often means moving quickly and smoothly once welding has started.  Delays can cause frustrating mistakes.So that's my $0.02.  Oh, and unions, at least some unions, can get a little crabby about their members working outside the union.  So do your research and find out the rules regarding this beforehand. Originally Posted by BWdiverSo what does most pro's use here as far as hoods? Miller auto or Jackson autos.  I rather buy once going in.Thanks....The other aspect I looked at was the down time when theres no work in the hall, I could be confident in my training to go out on my own if need be and provide that way for my family...
Reply:though im canadian i found this post and its responses interesting too, thanks
Reply:Welcome to the UA, local 467 here. Watch out for sidework, it can and will get you fined or kicked out of the union for life, It has happend in my local. Get a good set of leathers and what ever hood you want, just dont show up with it still in the box. Alot of the math we get involved with is your basic add, subtract, multiply and devide. All of the math I have had to do in the feild is figuring take offs and make up of fittings and elevations. But if you have bad prints or a stupid foreman be prepaired for alot more math and head aches.
Reply:You've got the attitude and some good advice here so you're on a good path.Only thing I might add is a good pocket reference book. Best of luck to you.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:luck to ya.you wont need leathers the first day..they  are for overhead welding and you probably wont start there..ad hoods are controversial. i think they suck. would recommend you get a cheap 4" x 5"  huntsman with several replacement clear plates and several different shades of lens, i love my gold #9 but you gotta experiment...and you can not weld a damn thing if you cant see the puddle, which takes some practice to do.
Reply:Originally Posted by violatedpplWelcome to the UA, local 467 here. Watch out for sidework, it can and will get you fined or kicked out of the union for life, It has happend in my local. Get a good set of leathers and what ever hood you want, just dont show up with it still in the box. Alot of the math we get involved with is your basic add, subtract, multiply and devide. All of the math I have had to do in the feild is figuring take offs and make up of fittings and elevations. But if you have bad prints or a stupid foreman be prepaired for alot more math and head aches.
Reply:do you guys wear resperators? should I?
Reply:Dexter: I understand your comment about pulling the trigger for $12.00/hr. I teach Aircraft Avionics and I hear that comment from my students all the time. I tell them to take whatever job they can when they first graduate as it is experience and it all counts. You can take this job for a while and if something better comes up then you will have this experience to add to your resume. More chance of getting the better job with some experience under your belt. Just my .02 cents.Good luck to all of you out there working so hard on your new career.Stay positive and things will work out.BW- You will do great. I find the mature students in general do better than the young ones just out of high school. They have focus and good work habits. Good luckCheersBillLast edited by MrBill; 02-06-2010 at 11:00 AM.
Reply:Hello from Local 598Do you know what classes you will be taking first? Even with welding experience, most apprentices start with a basic math class which covers adding and subtraction of measurements including fractions, and converting decimal to fractions and vice versa. Then you should have a basic trigonometry class because that is huge in our business. Basic pipe and plumbing, steam systems, plumbing or boiler codes, refrigeration (for some but not welders) Construction media class, drafting, basic electricity, pumps, plastic fusion (very cool class) and around the 3rd year it will be welding.This may not be the progression in your local but it should be similar. The information needs to be introduced in a certain order.In my local we have no problems with guys that are laid off doing work that does not compete with our work. So welding on pipe or plumbing is out. Not even under the table. We have one guy who lives near farmers and does irrigation work for them. It is pipe work but not something typically covered by our jurisdiction so he applied to the executive board to get approval for doing that work and they were fine with that. Another guy I know worked framing houses while he was laid off so just check with your training coordinator to see what is acceptable.Even at 43, it is good to get into. We have one first year apprentice that is 55 years old. The good news about being a little older is that you will routinely get taken for a journeyman so you most likely wont get spoken to like a punk kid does.If you do end up with weld certs soon and go to work as a welder, the contractor should supply the hood because it is safety equipment. The hard money jobs will just get you a cheap fixed lens but you can put in your own electronics. The last job I was on didnt have a hood for me so I had them get me one. Hoods disappear from the jobsite and I wanted to keep mine and I told them so. I agreed to use mine the first week, then they bought me one. We have conditions, so it was important that they purchase my safety equipment and they understand that. When you go to work for a contractor, it will be with your union brothers and they will most likely be holding those conditions on the job. Some locals require you to carry some items so you will need to look into that. At my local, the contractor supplies everything. Get a hood you like and are comfortable with. I have a speedglas, and a paper huntsman with an arc one single some have millers and they are nice, you will see many of the white Fibre metal pipeliner hoods. They are 40 bucks and will last forever. I dont know the brand but there are many welding coats, one is blue with leather sleeves and is not too heavy. The weld shop may have a stack of coats around for first timers. Hope I was helpful....good luck and stick with this.It will suck at times but what doesnt?BillUA Local 598
Reply:Great advice from Hughes. Something to keep in mind is that the free pipeliner hoods will also accept a standard sized auto insert, the hood itself doesn't provide much neck coverage, and that rubber band retainer is mickey mouse. The big window paper Huntsman exposes even more of the neck but it's better when you're in awkward position. If you buy an expensive hood, be sure it's hardhat compatible which is the only regret I have with my 9100XX. The hate I used to have for the journeymen that made me weld in weird, uncomfortable positions has turned into appreciation for lessons learned. You don't learn welding in a booth. You learn to weld hanging upside down in a ditch, laying under a pipe, after running the budget up with all the extra grinding rock, etc. The same journeyman that you cuss at under your breath may teach you more than you realize Being somewhat strong in math has helped immensely. Those orange fabric welding jackets are useless once they're washed. As far as welding outside the Union trades, you shouldn't do anything that could be remotely interpreted as competing with your Union brothers which is really just good common sense. I've done a ton of welding on the side and it's never been an issue. Go karts, trailers, decorative residential fencing, porches, loader buckets, landscape equipment, etc.Last edited by regularfella; 02-06-2010 at 06:07 PM.
Reply:[quote=WHughes;359094]Hello from Local 598Do you know what classes you will be taking first? Even with welding experience, most apprentices start with a basic math class which covers adding and subtraction of measurements including fractions, and converting decimal to fractions and vice versa. Then you should have a basic trigonometry class because that is huge in our business. Basic pipe and plumbing, steam systems, plumbing or boiler codes, refrigeration (for some but not welders) Construction media class, drafting, basic electricity, pumps, plastic fusion (very cool class) and around the 3rd year it will be welding.This may not be the progression in your local but it should be similar. The information needs to be introduced in a certain order.In my local we have no problems with guys that are laid off doing work that does not compete with our work. So welding on pipe or plumbing is out. Not even under the table. We have one guy who lives near farmers and does irrigation work for them. It is pipe work but not something typically covered by our jurisdiction so he applied to the executive board to get approval for doing that work and they were fine with that. Another guy I know worked framing houses while he was laid off so just check with your training coordinator to see what is acceptable.Even at 43, it is good to get into. We have one first year apprentice that is 55 years old. The good news about being a little older is that you will routinely get taken for a journeyman so you most likely wont get spoken to like a punk kid does.If you do end up with weld certs soon and go to work as a welder, the contractor should supply the hood because it is safety equipment. The hard money jobs will just get you a cheap fixed lens but you can put in your own electronics. The last job I was on didnt have a hood for me so I had them get me one. Hoods disappear from the jobsite and I wanted to keep mine and I told them so. I agreed to use mine the first week, then they bought me one. We have conditions, so it was important that they purchase my safety equipment and they understand that. When you go to work for a contractor, it will be with your union brothers and they will most likely be holding those conditions on the job. Some locals require you to carry some items so you will need to look into that. At my local, the contractor supplies everything. Get a hood you like and are comfortable with. I have a speedglas, and a paper huntsman with an arc one single some have millers and they are nice, you will see many of the white Fibre metal pipeliner hoods. They are 40 bucks and will last forever. I dont know the brand but there are many welding coats, one is blue with leather sleeves and is not too heavy. The weld shop may have a stack of coats around for first timers. Hope I was helpful....good luck and stick with this.It will suck at times but what doesnt?Bill[/quote/The union training cooridnator explained in brief about the apprenticeship program, I have a meeting set for this Tuesday. He's explained to me its a five year program but after 16 weeks of welding school or training, they will take two years off if you pass all your certs. It's would be benificial to have math class first and it may happen anyway but right now I don't have all the particulars. I'm just on the waiting list till further our talks on Tuesday.Thanks for the good info. Guy. Originally Posted by regularfellaGreat advice from Hughes. Something to keep in mind is that the free pipeliner hoods will also accept a standard sized auto insert, the hood itself doesn't provide much neck coverage, and that rubber band retainer is mickey mouse. The big window paper Huntsman exposes even more of the neck but it's better when you're in awkward position. If you buy an expensive hood, be sure it's hardhat compatible which is the only regret I have with my 9100XX. The hate I used to have for the journeymen that made me weld in weird, uncomfortable positions has turned into appreciation for lessons learned. You don't learn welding in a booth. You learn to weld hanging upside down in a ditch, laying under a pipe, after running the budget up with all the extra grinding rock, etc. The same journeyman that you cuss at under your breath may teach you more than you realize Being somewhat strong in math has helped immensely. Those orange fabric welding jackets are useless once they're washed. As far as welding outside the Union trades, you shouldn't do anything that could be remotely interpreted as competing with your Union brothers which is really just good common sense. I've done a ton of welding on the side and it's never been an issue. Go karts, trailers, decorative residential fencing, porches, loader buckets, landscape equipment, etc.
Reply:You may be in the 16 week welding program. Its a UA program to get more welders in the field. Do your best and weld it up.UA Local 598
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesHello from Local 598Do you know what classes you will be taking first? Even with welding experience, most apprentices start with a basic math class which covers adding and subtraction of measurements including fractions, and converting decimal to fractions and vice versa. Then you should have a basic trigonometry class because that is huge in our business. Basic pipe and plumbing, steam systems, plumbing or boiler codes, refrigeration (for some but not welders) Construction media class, drafting, basic electricity, pumps, plastic fusion (very cool class) and around the 3rd year it will be welding.This may not be the progression in your local but it should be similar. The information needs to be introduced in a certain order.In my local we have no problems with guys that are laid off doing work that does not compete with our work. So welding on pipe or plumbing is out. Not even under the table. We have one guy who lives near farmers and does irrigation work for them. It is pipe work but not something typically covered by our jurisdiction so he applied to the executive board to get approval for doing that work and they were fine with that. Another guy I know worked framing houses while he was laid off so just check with your training coordinator to see what is acceptable.Even at 43, it is good to get into. We have one first year apprentice that is 55 years old. The good news about being a little older is that you will routinely get taken for a journeyman so you most likely wont get spoken to like a punk kid does.If you do end up with weld certs soon and go to work as a welder, the contractor should supply the hood because it is safety equipment. The hard money jobs will just get you a cheap fixed lens but you can put in your own electronics. The last job I was on didnt have a hood for me so I had them get me one. Hoods disappear from the jobsite and I wanted to keep mine and I told them so. I agreed to use mine the first week, then they bought me one. We have conditions, so it was important that they purchase my safety equipment and they understand that. When you go to work for a contractor, it will be with your union brothers and they will most likely be holding those conditions on the job. Some locals require you to carry some items so you will need to look into that. At my local, the contractor supplies everything. Get a hood you like and are comfortable with. I have a speedglas, and a paper huntsman with an arc one single some have millers and they are nice, you will see many of the white Fibre metal pipeliner hoods. They are 40 bucks and will last forever. I dont know the brand but there are many welding coats, one is blue with leather sleeves and is not too heavy. The weld shop may have a stack of coats around for first timers. Hope I was helpful....good luck and stick with this.It will suck at times but what doesnt?Bill
Reply:Originally Posted by MrBillDexter: I understand your comment about pulling the trigger for $12.00/hr. I teach Aircraft Avionics and I hear that comment from my students all the time. I tell them to take whatever job they can when they first graduate as it is experience and it all counts. You can take this job for a while and if something better comes up then you will have this experience to add to your resume. More chance of getting the better job with some experience under your belt. Just my .02 cents.Good luck to all of you out there working so hard on your new career.Stay positive and things will work out.BW- You will do great. I find the mature students in general do better than the young ones just out of high school. They have focus and good work habits. Good luckCheersBill
Reply:What a great attitude. Good luck to you. A lot of employers will take smarts and maturity over experience. Hope you find some.
Reply:I cant believe they want 5 to 10 years experience for 12 dollar mig job.UA Local 598
Reply:I would honestly  suggest getting a flip up hood and lear to weld with with a fixed shade old school hood before throwing on the auto hood. I have worked jobs where you could not use an auto hood because the company was supplying the hood and you were taking it into a RAD. area and could not take anything out of the plant that went in there. Its not overly hard to lear with the old school hood. In an hour you will have a good handle on it.the fitters are a top notch groupd of welders and tradesmen. I have been in the Ironworkers union for 10 years now and work only as a welder. I am thinking long and hard about trying to get into the fitters because I am sick of the stupid in the Ironworkers. Don't get me wrong, good and bad in all jobs, but it seems that the majority of Fitters  have met and worked with are smart guys who know how to work smart and still get stuff done.If you can weld pipe you will not have trouble finding work esp. as an apprentive getting paid less money than a Journeymen to weld...companies will love that esp. if you are good. My only advice to a new apprentice in any trade is this:Show up on time and shut up and listen to everyone. You can learn just as much from someone who does stuff wrong as you can from someone doing right.I was told when I got in the Ironworkers Apprentices are meant to be seen and not heard. If I were you I would be pretty quiet that first week or so on the job. Feel out the guys and how things work. Then start asking SMART intelligent questions. If you don't know ask. Chances are you are going to get bitched at no matter what you do. But you tend to get bitched at less for asking the seemingly dumb question and bringing back the right tool or piece of material than if you don't ask and bring back the wrong thing. Expect to be bitched at no matter what. Some guys like to bitch more than others and some guys like to teach more than others. You will quickly find out who your allies are. Its a club and those first few years are the iniation into that club. If something seems like it does not exist...chances are it does not. Few to avoid...a henway...i.e Go get me a 10lbs Henway....Buckets of steam...you think this would be obvious but I have seen it get more than a few in my timerubber rulerspipe stretchersAnd don't get nailed with the how many rods of 7018 can youm bend behind your neck trickThe other you should definately not do ever under any circumstances is attempt to pass yourself off as a journeyman. It will be found out in short order and you will at the very least be in it deep with the Hall and the apprenticeship coordinator. You may also be fired/laid off from the job. Because your older guys may assume you ahve been around a while. Its one thing for them to think that and cut you slack but if someone asks...you tell them staright up no I am X year apprentice still.Best of luck bro.'MikeIW 15p.s don't be afraid to get burned....its going to happen so just get in there and burn wire brother
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715I would honestly  suggest getting a flip up hood and lear to weld with with a fixed shade old school hood before throwing on the auto hood. I have worked jobs where you could not use an auto hood because the company was supplying the hood and you were taking it into a RAD. area and could not take anything out of the plant that went in there. Its not overly hard to lear with the old school hood. In an hour you will have a good handle on it.the fitters are a top notch groupd of welders and tradesmen. I have been in the Ironworkers union for 10 years now and work only as a welder. I am thinking long and hard about trying to get into the fitters because I am sick of the stupid in the Ironworkers. Don't get me wrong, good and bad in all jobs, but it seems that the majority of Fitters  have met and worked with are smart guys who know how to work smart and still get stuff done.If you can weld pipe you will not have trouble finding work esp. as an apprentive getting paid less money than a Journeymen to weld...companies will love that esp. if you are good. My only advice to a new apprentice in any trade is this:Show up on time and shut up and listen to everyone. You can learn just as much from someone who does stuff wrong as you can from someone doing right.I was told when I got in the Ironworkers Apprentices are meant to be seen and not heard. If I were you I would be pretty quiet that first week or so on the job. Feel out the guys and how things work. Then start asking SMART intelligent questions. If you don't know ask. Chances are you are going to get bitched at no matter what you do. But you tend to get bitched at less for asking the seemingly dumb question and bringing back the right tool or piece of material than if you don't ask and bring back the wrong thing. Expect to be bitched at no matter what. Some guys like to bitch more than others and some guys like to teach more than others. You will quickly find out who your allies are. Its a club and those first few years are the iniation into that club. If something seems like it does not exist...chances are it does not. Few to avoid...a henway...i.e Go get me a 10lbs Henway....Buckets of steam...you think this would be obvious but I have seen it get more than a few in my timerubber rulerspipe stretchersAnd don't get nailed with the how many rods of 7018 can youm bend behind your neck trickThe other you should definately not do ever under any circumstances is attempt to pass yourself off as a journeyman. It will be found out in short order and you will at the very least be in it deep with the Hall and the apprenticeship coordinator. You may also be fired/laid off from the job. Because your older guys may assume you ahve been around a while. Its one thing for them to think that and cut you slack but if someone asks...you tell them staright up no I am X year apprentice still.Best of luck bro.'MikeIW 15p.s don't be afraid to get burned....its going to happen so just get in there and burn wire brother
Reply:Thank's Ironman,very good advice, much appreciated and I will watch out for that RUBBER RULER.lol.
Reply:Either that or make one and have it in your tool box when needed. LOLAnother thing that may help you get aggressive with the welding training is the shortage of qualified welders. If you have a UA21 and UA41, you will get 80% Journeyman scale in our local as a welder. Even full scale with certain circumstances. It's tough to argue against a fixed shade to start with-I did and I've the ability to go back if/when necessary
Reply:I did a search on UA 21/41, WOW! I would say so if you can pass those. Of course I don't know anything yet.Just be glad to be there (in training) and hopefully pass and get a new career.
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesI cant believe they want 5 to 10 years experience for 12 dollar mig job.
Reply:Originally Posted by BWdiverI did a search on UA 21/41, WOW! I would say so if you can pass those. Of course I don't know anything yet.Just be glad to be there (in training) and hopefully pass and get a new career.
Reply:Originally Posted by snappy101definitely bull.. might aswell work at walmart and not get dust in your lungs
Reply:Originally Posted by SinisterDexterHey, I worked at a Wal-Mart for some time. It's no picnic. Thankfully I have a job interview with a small fabrication shop tomorrow, 17 an hour to start, minimal welding experience needed. I'd take it and then start applying to Unions and see if I can get in. Or I may love the job and not want to go that route, who knows.
Reply:Good luck on the interview Dexter.
Reply:So, interview was total crap. They were looking for someone with 5-10 years experience in CNC. I wish that their ad would have said that. I said that I'd work for 15-17$ and he counter offered with 10$. We were talking for some time and the general manager was called in. Then he offered 8 an hour part time 10-25 hours a week to start. I, essentially, told him to stuff it.The world is amazing when you are slightly strange.
Reply:sorry man, Good luck with your job search.UA Local 598
Reply:Went to my meeting Tuesday, basicly turned in my compleated application and took the nickle tour.I was impressed with their training facility and got to see some top notch pipe welds, and I must say; there's nothing easy about it, after seeing the process of what is truely involved.It's still a waiting game for my slot, but the training cordinator said it will come just give it a month or two. that was good to hear. one of the apprentices said he finished his 16 wk training and passed his certs but no jobs yet, so it could be a while before any of these appentices see any action, much less myself, but I will still do the training and wait it out... sometimes you have to suffer to get to the ultimate reward.
Reply:My local just took in a 16 week welder. He was fresh out of the Marine Corps and went through the UA's 'Veterans in Piping' (vip) program (UA.org) in San Diego. He has some certs but will start the apprentice program this week. The apprentice list is long right now but we have a lot of work coming up and since he has certs, he will go to work much sooner than he would otherwise. It does suck to wait. I waited 3 years just to get in to the program and even though I was frustrated at times and could have said 'screw it', I have to say that it is worth the trouble.UA Local 598